The Sin Nature!

[GodsGrace]

Jimmy Swaggart, and all other theologians, realize exactly what Paul is saying in any verse.
Paul used the terms "flesh" and " sin nature" interchangeably (just as Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven is used interchangeably but means the same thing) and this has apparently caused some confusion with some believers. This is a reason why it's good to study under a theologian and not by ourselves.

What could be taken under consideration is this:

The FLESH is the MEANS by which the SIN NATURE operates.

W

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul used the terms "flesh" and " sin nature" interchangeably

If I recall correctly 'sin nature' is not even in the text.
The part you are missing is how he differentiates between the flesh and the mind set on the flesh. They are NOT the same thing. It is the mind set on the flesh that Paul says those with the Spirit no longer have. The flesh is what all of us still have. The flesh is not what makes us sinners by nature (if that were true, Jesus would be a sinner by nature). The mind set on the flesh is what makes us by nature, sinners. That's why Paul can say to the weak, sinning Corinthians, "such were some of you" (or however he says it) because as believers, they no longer have the mind set on the flesh.

This is a reason why it's good to study under a theologian and not by ourselves.

Reading the Bible for your own self and depending on the discernment God gives to his people hardly means you don't need teachers. That's exactly contrary to other teachings in the Bible about the various ministries in the body. What it does mean is you have the power by the Holy Spirit to know when someone is talking crap, and when they are not.

The FLESH is the MEANS by which the SIN NATURE operates.

...in an unsaved person.
A born again believer no longer has the old nature of the mind set on the flesh (Paul said so) such that his sinning can somehow originate from that. He has a new nature set on the things of the Spirit. When the believer sins he is sinning out of ignorance, or weakness, or deception, or just plain foolishness, but certainly not because his mind is set on the things of the flesh because Paul said those who have the Spirit don't have the mind set on the flesh. Or, in the ultimate case, he is sinning because he has walked away from the faith and is no longer a believer. That is the only time a 'believer' can sin out of the sin nature--when he is turned back over to the mind set on the flesh because of willful unbelief.

 

[GodsGrace]

If I recall correctly 'sin nature' is not even in the text.
The part you are missing is how he differentiates between the flesh and the mind set on the flesh. They are NOT the same thing. It is the mind set on the flesh that Paul says those with the Spirit no longer have. The flesh is what all of us still have. The flesh is not what makes us sinners by nature (if that were true, Jesus would be a sinner by nature). The mind set on the flesh is what makes us by nature, sinners. That's why Paul can say to the weak, sinning Corinthians, "such were some of you" (or however he says it) because as believers, they no longer have the mind set on the flesh.

So then how do we know about it? No, really. Where does it come from?
What happens at baptism? What is taken away? What remains? Am I getting mixed up with Catholicism? Maybe.
I understand everything you're saying Jethro.
We'll never agree on this. I don't like to debate back and forth about a nuance.
This doesn't seem important to me. You're saved and going to be with God - that's all that matters.
The spirit of God dwells in you.
You desire to do good and stay away from bad.
The Holy Spirit will always help you.
The flesh is not an easy concept to get across. It's the body and it's also something dwelling in the body. You can't get rid of it. Not here on this earth.

Reading the Bible for your own self and depending on the discernment God gives to his people hardly means you don't need teachers. That's exactly contrary to other teachings in the Bible about the various ministries in the body. What it does mean is you have the power by the Holy Spirit to know when someone is talking crap, and when they are not.

That's what I mean by my statement above. YOU are not talking c... Some people on these threads are saying things that make no sense to me. I studied a lot both in the Catholic Church and in a Nazarene Church. The RCC has doctrine I cannot agree with. The Nazarene church is the purest church I personally have ever attended. Unfortunately for me, there isn't one around here. So, if it weren't for this forum, I would tend to feel very alone.

I would like to say that when one reads the bible personal revelation can be gleaned from it. God speaks to us in many ways and this is one of them. However, personal revelation is only for the person for whom it is intended and should not be shared, unless it's for edification purposes and not for passing on our faith.

...in an unsaved person.
A born again believer no longer has the old nature of the mind set on the flesh (Paul said so) such that his sinning can somehow originate from that. He has a new nature set on the things of the Spirit. When the believer sins he is sinning out of ignorance, or weakness, or deception, or just plain foolishness, but certainly not because his mind is set on the things of the flesh because Paul said those who have the Spirit don't have the mind set on the flesh. Or, in the ultimate case, he is sinning because he has walked away from the faith and is no longer a believer. That is the only time a 'believer' can sin out of the sin nature--when he is turned back over to the mind set on the flesh because of willful unbelief.

I agree that sinning originates from satan. He's at the base of everything bad and everything evil. He speaks to us constantly and acts to entrap us in many ways. We cannot be so strong on this earth and will fail. But God is always there to pick us up.

So we have the spirit and our mind is to be renewed daily. Ultimately, what does it mean to have the spirit? It simply means to be aware of God, to have Him in your heart and make Him a part of your life. These will see God in the face one day. If there is no awareness of God and no acknowledgment and one goes through life as it he's the ultimate end and there is nothing else, well, they do not have the spirit and will not be able to be in the presence of a God they never believed existed.

Wondering

 

[iLOVE]

What exactly is the sin nature?

Can the sin nature reign in the life of a Believer?

Can Satan override the will of a Believer?

Romans 7:18 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

Additional questions?

How can I tell if the sin nature has rule in my life?

How can a Believer maintain victory over the sin nature?

 

[iLOVE]

From the teaching of the Generation of the Cross

The Cross is a two fold victory; for the sinner and for the Saint. It means for the sinner, it saves us from sin. And the Cross for the Saint, saves us from self and breaks the grip of sin over our lives.

How can I tell if the sin nature has rule in my life?

Wrong Direction

Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Failure!

How can a Believer maintain victory over the sin nature?

Right Direction

Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)
SIN WILL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU!!!!!!!

Note: I am not speaking about sinless perfection ( Only Jesus was sinless).

The Holy Spirit is waiting for a Believer to say, "I can't do this." And He will respond, "That's what I have been waiting for, so I can do it for you!"

The majority of Christians know nothing about the Cross of Christ for sanctification. All they have in their mind is, "I have to do something." Satan has been the master of deception by deceiving the Christian population into moving them away from the Cross to something else.

It's all in the Cross!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Additional questions?

How can I tell if the sin nature has rule in my life?

How can a Believer maintain victory over the sin nature?

Believers aren't in the flesh anymore, by virtue of having the Holy Spirit:
"you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you." (Romans 8:9 NASB)

So the issue is not asking how believers overcome something that they aren't in anymore because the Holy Spirit is in them. They overcame that and became new creations when they were born again. The issue is asking how believers overcome the temptations of the bodies they still have.

 

[iLOVE]

Believers aren't in the flesh anymore, by virtue of having the Holy Spirit:
"you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you." (Romans 8:9 NASB)

So the issue is not asking how believers overcome something that they aren't in anymore because the Holy Spirit is in them. They overcame that and became new creations when they were born again. The issue is asking how believers overcome the temptations of the bodies they still have.

But you are not in the Flesh (in one sense of the word is asking the question, "Since you are now a Believer and no longer depending on the flesh, why are you resorting to the flesh?"), But in the Spirit (as a Believer, you now have the Privilege of being led and empowered by the Holy Spirit; however, He will do such for us only on the premise of our Faith in the Finished Work of Christ), if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you (if you are truly Saved). Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His ( Paul is saying that the work of the Spirit in our lives is made possible by what Christ did at Calvary, and the Resurrection). (Romans 8:9)

Walking in the Spirit
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Galatians 5:16-26

"Manifest" in the Greek is "phaneros," and means "open, evident." The idea is, that if the Believer resorts to Law, some part of these sins are going to be manifested in such a person, and despite their efforts otherwise. (Pastor Jimmy Swaggart Bible Commentary - Galatians)

If the Believer Faith is not maintained in Christ and the Cross, you will fulfill the lust of the flesh.