The sin that would not be forgiven

[Classik]

Mat. 12

31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.



What is this sin really? Are people already guilty of it? Are the people condemned already forever? Any difference between sin in general and this particular sin? :dunno

 

[Dustoftheearth]

Mat. 12

31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.



What is this sin really? Are people already guilty of it? Are the people condemned already forever? Any difference between sin in general and this particular sin? :dunno

(Imho)

It is/was a knowing and deliberate act of calling the work of the Holy Spirit, a work of Beelzebub (or Satan)

It would appear that the Jews were well aware that the Spirit of God was an actual fact.
It would also appear that these Jews (or many of them) believed that the works that Jesus did was from God (for only God could do the works that Jesus did)

Jesus went on to say:
Matt 12:33 Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree corrupt, and its fruit corrupt. For from the fruit the tree is known.

The works (or fruits) that Jesus was doing were good, but the Pharisees said that it was 'by' the prince of demons

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

What is this sin really?

Prior to the cross, it was crediting the work of Christ to Satan. After the cross, it is the rejection of Christ as Savior and Lord.

Are people already guilty of it?

Absolutely! Anyone who claims not to believe in Christ had committed the sin.

Are the people condemned already forever?

No, because they can change their minds.

Any difference between sin in general and this particular sin?

This is the sin that lets the sinner remain in the other sins.

 

[Danus]

The case of the “unpardonable sin/unforgivable sin” or “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. The term “blasphemy” may be generally defined as “defiant irreverence.” We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or willfully degrading things relating to Him. It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case of blasphemy, however, is a specific one called “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit” in Matthew 12:31. In this passage, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that He was possessed by the demon Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24). In Mark 3:30, Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”

This blasphemy then has to do with accusing Jesus Christ (in person, on earth) of being demon-possessed. There are other ways to blaspheme the Holy Spirit (such as lying to Him, as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-10), but the accusation against Jesus was the blasphemy that was unpardonable. This specific unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today.

The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. John 3:16 tells us, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” The only condition in which someone would have no forgiveness is if he/she is not among the “whoever” that believes in Him. Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). To reject the only means of salvation is to condemn oneself to an eternity in hell because to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.

Many people fear they have committed some sin that God cannot or will not forgive, and they feel there is no hope for them, no matter what they do. Satan would like nothing better than to keep us laboring under this misconception. The truth is that if a person has this fear, he/she needs only to come before God, confess that sin, repent of it, and accept God’s promise of forgiveness. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). This verse assures us that God is ready to forgive any sin—no matter how heinous—if we come to Him in repentance. If you are suffering under a load of guilt today, God is waiting with His arms open in love and compassion for you to come to Him. He will never disappoint or fail to pardon those who do.


http://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html

 

[Dustoftheearth]

Prior to the cross, it was crediting the work of Christ to Satan.

True

After the cross, it is the rejection of Christ as Savior and Lord.

Absolutely! Anyone who claims not to believe in Christ had committed the sin.

No, because they can change their minds.

This is the sin that lets the sinner remain in the other sins.

With respect, that is manmade doctrine and is not scriptural.

If it was so, then anyone who had initially rejected the gospel, could never be forgiven.

Jesus clearly stated that anyone who committed this sin would never be forgiven, neither in this age nor the next age.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

If it was so, then anyone who had initially rejected the gospel, could never be forgiven.

Jesus clearly stated that anyone who committed this sin would never be forgiven, neither in this age nor the next age.

That doesn't mean it won't be forgiven if the sinner repents. There is, otherwise, no unpardonable sin except the sin of unbelief. We have here the gracious assurance of the pardon of all sin upon gospel terms. Christ sets an example to the sons of men, to be ready to forgive words spoken against them. But humble and conscientious believers, at times are tempted to think they have committed the unpardonable sin, while those who have come the nearest to it, seldom have any fear about it. We may be sure that those who repent and believe the gospel, have not committed this sin, or any other that might foster similar fears. Repentance and faith are the special gifts of God, and He most assuredly would never bestow them on any man if He were determined never to pardon him. Those who fear they have committed this sin give a good sign that they have not, in fact, committed so grievous a transgression. The trembling, contrite sinner, has the witness in himself that this is not his case. Those who never think about the fact that they have, indeed, committed such infraction against the commands of God are the ones who will never be forgiven, as they will never seek repentance.

Repentance is necessary for forgiveness to occur. So of course, if it is never asked, because the need is never suspected, the sin will never be forgiven. That is what Jesus is saying. In Luke 17:4, Jesus admonishes the disciples, "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him." One cannot believe He holds himself to a lesser standard than He holds us.

 

[Classik]

(Imho)

It is/was a knowing and deliberate act of calling the work of the Holy Spirit, a work of Beelzebub (or Satan)

It would appear that the Jews were well aware that the Spirit of God was an actual fact.
It would also appear that these Jews (or many of them) believed that the works that Jesus did was from God (for only God could do the works that Jesus did)

Jesus went on to say:
Matt 12:33 Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree corrupt, and its fruit corrupt. For from the fruit the tree is known.

The works (or fruits) that Jesus was doing were good, but the Pharisees said that it was 'by' the prince of demons

Really? Then there could be trouble. Some claim to have the spirit of discernment. What if someone discerns wrongly (thinking the devil's spoken when God trully did?)

 

[Classik]

The case of the “unpardonable sin/unforgivable sin†or “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit†is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. The term “blasphemy†may be generally defined as “defiant irreverence.†We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God or willfully degrading things relating to Him. It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case of blasphemy, however, is a specific one called “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit†in Matthew 12:31. In this passage, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that He was possessed by the demon Beelzebub (Matthew 12:24). In Mark 3:30, Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit “the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.â€

This blasphemy then has to do with accusing Jesus Christ (in person, on earth) of being demon-possessed. There are other ways to blaspheme the Holy Spirit (such as lying to Him, as in the case of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-10), but the accusation against Jesus was the blasphemy that was unpardonable. This specific unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today.

The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. John 3:16 tells us, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.†The only condition in which someone would have no forgiveness is if he/she is not among the “whoever†that believes in Him. Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me†(John 14:6). To reject the only means of salvation is to condemn oneself to an eternity in hell because to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.

Many people fear they have committed some sin that God cannot or will not forgive, and they feel there is no hope for them, no matter what they do. Satan would like nothing better than to keep us laboring under this misconception. The truth is that if a person has this fear, he/she needs only to come before God, confess that sin, repent of it, and accept God’s promise of forgiveness. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness†(1 John 1:9). This verse assures us that God is ready to forgive any sin—no matter how heinous—if we come to Him in repentance. If you are suffering under a load of guilt today, God is waiting with His arms open in love and compassion for you to come to Him. He will never disappoint or fail to pardon those who do.


http://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html

Thank you.

 

[Classik]

True

With respect, that is manmade doctrine and is not scriptural.

If it was so, then anyone who had initially rejected the gospel, could never be forgiven.

Jesus clearly stated that anyone who committed this sin would never be forgiven, neither in this age nor the next age.

What could be the punishment for such sin?

 

[Classik]

The OP: It seems to me this was refered to typical Christians not unbelievers. How? For instance, a sinner or an unbeliever or an atheist can choose to insult the Christian God or the Spirit or say something impious against HIM. He thinks he's doing the right thing. He is absolutely ignorant of what he's doing.


But for a Christian who knows there exists a God who made the heavens and earth...and who blasphemes against God is guilty of the sin - for he already knew. An unbeliever is absolutely ignorant. (I'm not trying to justufy them)

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The OP: It seems to me this was refered to typical Christians not unbelievers. How? For instance, a sinner or an unbeliever or an atheist can choose to insult the Christian God or the Spirit or say something impious against HIM. He thinks he's doing the right thing. He is absolutely ignorant of what he's doing.


But for a Christian who knows there exists a God who made the heavens and earth...and who blasphemes against God is guilty of the sin - for he already knew. An unbeliever is absolutely ignorant. (I'm not trying to justufy them)

You're thinking about this wrong, Classik. A Christian has the discernment of knowing God's voice. A Christian would never, under any circumstance, blaspheme the Spirit by crediting Satan's work to Him, or vice versa. A Christian would never be guilty of this sin. See post #s 4 and 6.

 

[Classik]

You're thinking about this wrong, Classik. A Christian has the discernment of knowing God's voice. A Christian would never, under any circumstance, blaspheme the Spirit by crediting Satan's work to Him, or vice versa. A Christian would never be guilty of this sin. See post #s 4 and 6.

Like you didn't clearly understand it. Sort of 'judgement begins from the church thing'.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Like you didn't clearly understand it. Sort of 'judgement begins from the church thing'.

Yes, which of course, it doesn't.

<---Your world has shrunk. :toofunny

 

[Classik]

Yes, which of course, it doesn't.

<---Your world has shrunk. :toofunny

Are you really convulsive with laughter? 4

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Are you really convulsive with laughter? 4

Yeah, pretty much so. That was a good joke, don't you think?

I do like my own sense of humor, yes I do.

 

[Classik]

Yeah, pretty much so. That was a good joke, don't you think?

I do like my own sense of humor, yes I do.

Yea. I like your sense of humor

 

[Dustoftheearth]

That doesn't mean it won't be forgiven if the sinner repents. There is, otherwise, no unpardonable sin except the sin of unbelief. We have here the gracious assurance of the pardon of all sin upon gospel terms. Christ sets an example to the sons of men, to be ready to forgive words spoken against them. But humble and conscientious believers, at times are tempted to think they have committed the unpardonable sin, while those who have come the nearest to it, seldom have any fear about it. We may be sure that those who repent and believe the gospel, have not committed this sin, or any other that might foster similar fears. Repentance and faith are the special gifts of God, and He most assuredly would never bestow them on any man if He were determined never to pardon him. Those who fear they have committed this sin give a good sign that they have not, in fact, committed so grievous a transgression. The trembling, contrite sinner, has the witness in himself that this is not his case. Those who never think about the fact that they have, indeed, committed such infraction against the commands of God are the ones who will never be forgiven, as they will never seek repentance.

Repentance is necessary for forgiveness to occur. So of course, if it is never asked, because the need is never suspected, the sin will never be forgiven. That is what Jesus is saying. In Luke 17:4, Jesus admonishes the disciples, "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him." One cannot believe He holds himself to a lesser standard than He holds us.

Hi again thisnumbersdisconnected!

Jesus spoke of only one sin that will not be forgiven, and that is the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
He even went on to say that all other sin, will be forgiven.

Unbelief, (or any other sin) is not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[Classik]

Hi again thisnumbersdisconnected!

Jesus spoke of only one sin that will not be forgiven, and that is the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
He even went on to say that all other sin, will be forgiven.

Unbelief, (or any other sin) is not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

What is the punishment if any??

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Hi again thisnumbersdisconnected!

Jesus spoke of only one sin that will not be forgiven, and that is the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
He even went on to say that all other sin, will be forgiven.

Unbelief, (or any other sin) is not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Actually, that's exactly what it is. The Holy Spirit calls all men, He draws some men, He convicts a few of these to repent and trust Jesus. Those who aren't convicted deny the work of the Holy Spirit by rejecting His revelation to them.

Jesus didn't say the unforgivable sin wouldn't be forgiven even with repentance. The process I spelled out in the post to which you replied states that very clearly. Unbelief will not be forgiven because it is not repented of, because the sinner doesn't ever consider he needs to repent of unbelief. To him/her, he/she is fine without Christ They will perish.

But repentance, as I showed in Luke 17:4, is universal in acquiring forgiveness. Repent of unbelief, and one will be saved. There is no unforgivable sin other than unbelief. What could it possibly be other than that? Put a name to it for me, so I can understand.

 

[Dustoftheearth]

Really? Then there could be trouble. Some claim to have the spirit of discernment. What if someone discerns wrongly (thinking the devil's spoken when God trully did?)

Hi Classik!

Like as has already been mentioned, I tend to believe that this particular sin, could only have been committed when Christ was on earth in the flesh.

If it is/was possible today, then (imho) it would have most certainly been said in the epistles as something to be aware of, and to guard against.

Satan certainly seems to use this one, as one of his flaming arrows against many believers.