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The sinners prayer

Hospes said:
Not really. If you think about it, how can a person repent until he has faith to believe the truth of the Gospel, his spiritual eyes opened to see his need to repent, and clearly see what to repent from? There is something deeper and prior that results in repentance.
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Right. But it isn't salvation in the person at that point.
It's simply the ministry of God's Spirit at work showing the person the gospel really is true. From there they now have to trust in what God has shown them to be true. Most people choose not to at this point. Knowing the gospel is true does not save anybody. Trusting in the gospel is what saves a person:

" to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. " (Romans 4:5 NIV)
 
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for_his_glory said:
REPENT - change, transform, transfigure, reconsider

How can a sinner know they are sinning unless it is first revealed to them. God draws us to Him by His grace, but faith has to come first as faith leads us to repent and then be baptized in the Holy Spirit as then we are regenerated as becoming made a new creation again that is sinless before the eyes of God, Ephesians 2:8; Acts 2:37,38.
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As I mentioned in my post I beleive its conviction first and repentance at first, followed by a changed lifestyle that one seeks to be, to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

Jesus said that he must go to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must to to convict the world of its sin, that sin is unbelief in him.

So the Holy Spirit convicts a person of this and repentance here is to believe in him and place their faith in him.

After this they thank Jesus that their sins (wrongdoings whilst they were in unbelief) repent of such things (turn their back them).

At this point they should be nurtured and grounded in the Chrisitan Faith.

Just my thoughts
 
Wrg1405 said:
As I mentioned in my post I beleive its conviction first and repentance at first, followed by a changed lifestyle that one seeks to be, to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

Jesus said that he must go to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must to to convict the world of its sin, that sin is unbelief in him.

So the Holy Spirit convicts a person of this and repentance here is to believe in him and place their faith in him.

After this they thank Jesus that their sins (wrongdoings whilst they were in unbelief) repent of such things (turn their back them).

At this point they should be nurtured and grounded in the Chrisitan Faith.

Just my thoughts
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John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

They believed not for they had no faith (first comes faith) nor conviction from the Holy Spirit (second comes the Holy Spirit) that they are even sinners needing to repent (third comes repentance) as it's by Gods free gift of grace by faith, Ephesians 2:8, that we are drawn to Him as we accept Jesus by faith and then through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit we repent of our sin and are baptized in the Holy Spirit. To me it takes faith to believe we can repent and be forgiven and receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 
for_his_glory said:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

They believed not for they had no faith (first comes faith) nor conviction from the Holy Spirit (second comes the Holy Spirit) that they are even sinners needing to repent (third comes repentance) as it's by Gods free gift of grace by faith, Ephesians 2:8, that we are drawn to Him as we accept Jesus by faith and then through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit we repent of our sin and are baptized in the Holy Spirit. To me it takes faith to believe we can repent and be forgiven and receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
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Are we not saying the same thing? The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces/reproved of having no faith in Jesus when they genuinely repent of unbelief they now have placed their faith in Jesus.

The sin here is that of unbelief which they must turn from first before anything else can happen
 
Wrg1405 said:
Are we not saying the same thing? The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces/reproved of having no faith in Jesus when they genuinely repent of unbelief they now have placed their faith in Jesus.

The sin here is that of unbelief which they must turn from first before anything else can happen
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OK, we are on the same page. I guess I wasn't understanding what you meant by sin until you clarified it being sin of unbelief. Thank you :)
 
for_his_glory said:
OK, we are on the same page. I guess I wasn't understanding what you meant by sin until you clarified it being sin of unbelief. Thank you :)
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Good

What I'm trying to bring out is that sometimes the sinners prayer focuses on sin as we define it in terms of wrong doing rather than unbelief.
 
Wrg1405 said:
Good

What I'm trying to bring out is that sometimes the sinners prayer focuses on sin as we define it in terms of wrong doing rather than unbelief.
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I agree as when I first repeated that prayer I knew nothing about Christ other than the nice stories I heard in Sunday school when I was little. The Pastor of the Church I was invited to go to when I was 17 was preaching about Salvation in his sermon and even though it mostly went over my head it did make sense to repeat that prayer so if I died I would not go to hell, but yet I had no follow through in any Spiritual growth and soon quit going to church. It wouldn't be for a couple of years that I started on my journey of discovery as I was drawn to a little country Church and then later attended another with my sister. It was a long bumpy journey to get to where I am now and I would not trade all the trials and tribulations I faced on the way that have built up my faith and trust in Christ. It had nothing to do with that prayer, but that of God working on my unbelief even if I didn't know it at the time.
 
for_his_glory said:
I agree as when I first repeated that prayer I knew nothing about Christ other than the nice stories I heard in Sunday school when I was little. The Pastor of the Church I was invited to go to when I was 17 was preaching about Salvation in his sermon and even though it mostly went over my head it did make sense to repeat that prayer so if I died I would not go to hell, but yet I had no follow through in any Spiritual growth and soon quit going to church. It wouldn't be for a couple of years that I started on my journey of discovery as I was drawn to a little country Church and then later attended another with my sister. It was a long bumpy journey to get to where I am now and I would not trade all the trials and tribulations I faced on the way that have built up my faith and trust in Christ. It had nothing to do with that prayer, but that of God working on my unbelief even if I didn't know it at the time.
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I'm not a repent or burn person. I'm more repent because God loves you, he has given you the opportunity to live for ever with him. If you don't want to then he will respect your decision. I do beleive however if that a person prays a prayer of repentance cause they don't want to go to hell they pray that because they believe that Jesus is who he says he is and he will keep them from hell. I then think even if you don't grow straight away, whether it be from immaturity spiritually or because you have not been nurtured God will still honour that prayer and bring about circumstances that lead you to place where he will honour your prayer and he will use that bumpy road you walked on with all its trials and tribulation to strengthen your faith because he fulfilled his promise to lead you back to the level path where you will not stumble and use you to help others who suffered what you have.
 
Wrg1405 said:
I'm not a repent or burn person. I'm more repent because God loves you, he has given you the opportunity to live for ever with him. If you don't want to then he will respect your decision. I do beleive however if that a person prays a prayer of repentance cause they don't want to go to hell they pray that because they believe that Jesus is who he says he is and he will keep them from hell. I then think even if you don't grow straight away, whether it be from immaturity spiritually or because you have not been nurtured God will still honour that prayer and bring about circumstances that lead you to place where he will honour your prayer and he will use that bumpy road you walked on with all its trials and tribulation to strengthen your faith because he fulfilled his promise to lead you back to the level path where you will not stumble and use you to help others who suffered what you have.
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Again I agree, but my problem is that of a prepared statement that if it is not understood before it is repeated then all it is is a prepared statement on a piece of paper that is only mouthed and has no meaning unless it is explained first in simple terms.
 
If we're going to lead someone to Christ through a prayer I think it should be modeled after this:

"6Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
7Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon." (Isaiah 55:6-7 NIV)

After all, redemption is the forgiveness of sin:

"7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace" (Ephesians 1:7 NIV)

Before I got saved, I knew I could not get from here to there, because I could not stop sinning. Then I heard the gospel message of God's forgiveness and how he understood that I could not stop sinning and that there was nothing that I could do about it, and that he was extending the arms of mercy to me. I accepted that mercy and became at peace with God. He was no longer my enemy. He became my friend and Father. He ended my enslavement to sin and set me free to know him and love him.
 
I don't think we need to kick the sinner's prayer out of the church just because there are those who are not sincere when they say it. That would take away from the many who are sincere when they say it and are saved.

Oh, and I think it important that the preacher who leads someone to Christ IMMEDIATELY pray for them to receive the Holy Spirit. And get water baptized ASAP. Every church should have a baptismal tub ready to go and accessible 24/7/365. And if a church doesn't have one, make arrangements to share access to one in another church 24/7/365.

Oh, and then get them into a personal discipleship group led by a pastor or elder or trusted leader to learn all about the Christian faith and so they can be nurtured and cared for so the devil won't pick 'em off right from the start (happened in the church I'm attending now). This does not mean teach them how to evangelize the faith, but rather how to LIVE the faith and be strong and not fall from their new found faith. Walking in their gift(s) comes later.
 
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I have nothing against the "Sinners Prayer" as it is a good place to start with your communication to Christ, but I think also there should be a little followup afterwards that would teach one about their new found faith in Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit before they leave the Church instead of everyone saying "Welcome to the family, see you next week".
 
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