The song of Moses

[Shilohsfoal]

Rev 14;3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne,and before the four beasts,and the elders;and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand,which were redeeemed from the earth.

Rev 15;2-3
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire;and them that had gotten the victory over the beast,and over his image,and over his mark,and over the number of his name,stand on the sea of glass,having the harps of God.
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God,and the song of the Lamb,Saying great and marvelous are thy works,Lord God Almighty;just and true are thy ways,thou King of saints.


If the gentiles on this board believe the gentiles will get the victory over the beast,then how is it only 144,000 Israelites shall sing the song of Moses and not one single gentile can learn it?

If your not in Judea,then you are not faced with the beast.

 

[Sinthesis]

Rev 14;3
Saying great and marvelous are thy works,Lord Gog Almighty;

Surely a typo on your part.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Rev 14;3
Saying great and marvelous are thy works,Lord Gog Almighty;

Surely a typo on your part.

yup,you caught me messin up.

 

[MMarc]

The 144k are the first fruits unto God and His lamb, this means that they are the children of the resurrection, hosea 6:2-3

They are the ones that died in the last 6000 years and have resurrected with Jesus.

That is why they are redeemed from the earth. They will recognize the song of Moises and the Lamb because they died and were raised in Christ.

It has nothing to do with the flesh, as they are both Jew and gentiles.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The 144k are the first fruits unto God and His lamb, this means that they are the children of the resurrection, hosea 6:2-3

They are the ones that died in the last 6000 years and have resurrected with Jesus.

That is why they are redeemed from the earth. They will recognize the song of Moises and the Lamb because they died and were raised in Christ.

It has nothing to do with the flesh, as they are both Jew and gentiles.

No thier not gentile.The scripture is very precise about what tribes they come from and how many from each tribe.The scriptures didnt leave any room to interpret what nationality they are.

 

[MMarc]

Was Adam an Israelite? Was Enoch an Israelite? What about Abraham was he an Israelite?


Yet they are of the resurrection, the 144k can also be broken down as 120K nations and 24k Priestly order.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Was Adam an Israelite? Was Enoch an Israelite? What about Abraham was he an Israelite?


Yet they are of the resurrection, the 144k can also be broken down as 120K nations and 24k Priestly order.

They can if you want to rewrite the book of revelation.
Rev 7;4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed;and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Theres no dancing around the fact that these are of the tribes of the children of Israel.Not grafted into mind you but the offspring of Israel.

Now if you want to include the other nations we can but they are a multitude which no man could number and not counted with the 144,000.


Rev 7;9
After this I beheld,and,lo,a great multitue,which no man could number,of all nations,and kindreds,and people,and tongues,stood before the throne,and before the Lamb,clothed with white robes,and palms in thier hands.

 

[veteran]

Here's another point then, assuming the 144,000 of Rev.7 are 12,000 literally from each tribe of Israel.

God scattered the majority of all 12 tribes abroad, and they've been living among the Gentiles ever since. Per the histories in God's Word about the 12 tribes, only 3 of them claimed the title of Jew, which Josephus said only the returning remnant from the 70 years Babylon captivity took, and comes from the name of Judah. The majority of the ten tribes who were taken captive to Assyria about 120 years prior to Judah's Babylon captivity never returned to the holy land, and became lost to the world. Essentially, the lost ten tribes, which Josephus said in his day of 100 A.D. were still scattered abroad and that they made up a great number of people, too many to be counted, became as Gentiles, living among Gentiles, taking customs not as Israelites, but as Gentiles.

That is in accord with God's prophecy through His prophet Hosea about the ten tribed house of Israel. He divorced them, and called them Loammi ('not My people') by naming Hosea's child from a prostitute whom God told him to take for a wife. It was to symbolize how the ten tribes had fallen into Baal worship against Him. He then allowed them the full cup of Baalism during their scattering which had caused their falling away from Him. He said He hedged up their paths, so they couldn't find their way back to return. He said for all that, still the number of the children of Israel would be as the sand of the sea that can't be numbered.

And in final, He said the day will come when both "the children of Judah" and "the children of Israel" would be gathered together and appoint themselves one Head (Christ Jesus), and in the land where Israel was called 'not My people', there it would be said, "Ye are the sons of the living God" (Hosea 1:10-11).

Apostle Paul referred to this Hosea prophecy in Romans 9 as did Peter in 1 Pet.2, both speaking of both Gentiles and Jews together as one body in Christ.

Some believe that final fulfillment of the Hosea prophecy has happened already, but it's not complete yet, for it includes a return of Judah and Israel (ten tribes) back to the holy lands of promise, with Christ ruling, and with David as our prince (Ezek.37).

How does that relate to both groups given in Rev.7? Well, in Amos 9 God said He will sift the house of Israel (ten tribes) among the nations as corn through a sieve, and not the least grain will fall upon the earth. That means God knows exactly where He scattered the ten tribes, even though the majority of them think they are Gentiles.

God said there in Amos 9 also, in that day, He will raise up the tabernacle of David, and it will be built as in the days of old. In the holy city of Rev.21:12, it's to have 12 gates with the names of the 12 tribes of Israel. In Ezekiel 48 is a vision of that time also, with the 12 tribes being established back to the lands of promise God gave their fathers. Our Lord Jesus also promised His 12 Apostles they would sit upon thrones judging over the 12 tribes of Israel. That has yet to happen today.

This means Israel is Christ's Kingdom which His Body will inherit, that Body being made up of both believing Jews (Israelites) and Gentiles. In Revelation, both the 144,000 and saved Gentiles of the nations are shown before Christ's Throne serving Him. So none of us can call Christ's Kingdom to come a kingdom strictly of seed born Israelites, nor strictly of seed born Gentiles. Instead its the spiritual seed concept of Israel, which includes both as one Body through Christ Jesus. It means God's concept of His Israel He had from the beginning is what His Salvation has always been about. That's why I believe the 144,000 is literal, and the great multitude saved of the nations in Rev.7:9 forward is literal Gentiles too.

 

[MMarc]

Was Adam an Israelite? Was Enoch an Israelite? What about Abraham was he an Israelite?


Yet they are of the resurrection, the 144k can also be broken down as 120K nations and 24k Priestly order.

They can if you want to rewrite the book of revelation.
Rev 7;4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed;and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Theres no dancing around the fact that these are of the tribes of the children of Israel.Not grafted into mind you but the offspring of Israel.

Now if you want to include the other nations we can but they are a multitude which no man could number and not counted with the 144,000.


Rev 7;9
After this I beheld,and,lo,a great multitue,which no man could number,of all nations,and kindreds,and people,and tongues,stood before the throne,and before the Lamb,clothed with white robes,and palms in thier hands.

I didn't rewrite Revelation, but I know those I mentionned are of the firstfruits as spiritual Israelites because they all died in Christ.

Let me know when you see the resurrected saints and recongnize them then we'll talk...

 

[adam332]

No thier not gentile.The scripture is very precise about what tribes they come from and how many from each tribe.The scriptures didnt leave any room to interpret what nationality they are.

How precise is it?
Let's play a game....
Can you match up the 12 tribes from Revelation with the actual 12 tribes of Israel? If you can't I win. Deal?

The scripture is precise right?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

No thier not gentile.The scripture is very precise about what tribes they come from and how many from each tribe.The scriptures didnt leave any room to interpret what nationality they are.

How precise is it?
Let's play a game....
Can you match up the 12 tribes from Revelation with the actual 12 tribes of Israel? If you can't I win. Deal?

The scripture is precise right?

I dont have to play matching games.
I can read Rev 7 and see what tribes are written.
Theres no guessing games here.

 

[n2thelight]

Rev 14;3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne,and before the four beasts,and the elders;and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand,which were redeeemed from the earth.

Rev 15;2-3
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire;and them that had gotten the victory over the beast,and over his image,and over his mark,and over the number of his name,stand on the sea of glass,having the harps of God.
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God,and the song of the Lamb,Saying great and marvelous are thy works,Lord God Almighty;just and true are thy ways,thou King of saints.


If the gentiles on this board believe the gentiles will get the victory over the beast,then how is it only 144,000 Israelites shall sing the song of Moses and not one single gentile can learn it?

If your not in Judea,then you are not faced with the beast.

Why do you think one cannot learn that song,when it's in scripture

Deuteronomy 32:1-43 gives you the whole song....

 

[adam332]

I dont have to play matching games.
I can read Rev 7 and see what tribes are written.
Theres no guessing games here.

Well, actually you do have to play matching games if your gonna' teach everyone this prophecy is "precise".

What you actually read in Rev. is a list of 12 tribes not found in the OT. In other words your precise thinking was not very precise at all. Your conclusion is based on false premise and has no merit.

 

[Bick]

Rev 14;3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne,and before the four beasts,and the elders;and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand,which were redeeemed from the earth.

Rev 15;2-3
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire;and them that had gotten the victory over the beast,and over his image,and over his mark,and over the number of his name,stand on the sea of glass,having the harps of God.
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God,and the song of the Lamb,Saying great and marvelous are thy works,Lord God Almighty;just and true are thy ways,thou King of saints.

If the gentiles on this board believe the gentiles will get the victory over the beast,then how is it only 144,000 Israelites shall sing the song of Moses and not one single gentile can learn it?

If your not in Judea,then you are not faced with the beast.

MY COMMENTS: I agree with you, the 144,000 are literally as described, 12,000 from each of 12 tribes of Israel (Rev. 7:4-8).

And, it is important to note, nothing is said of them being resurrected. They will be alive on the earth (God knows who they are), to be sealed and protected from all the plagues and woes about to come upon the earth.

What we read next in Rev. 7:9-17 describes the multitude of Gentiles from every nation saved out of the great tribulation. They are those who have been killed by the anti-christ, no doubt, for they believe in God and the Lamb as their Saviour (vs. 7:10), and obviously refuse to worship the beast and receive his mark.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

What you actually read in Rev. is a list of 12 tribes not found in the OT. In other words your precise hinking was not very precise at all. Your conclusion is based on false premise and has no merit.

It sounds like you are saying the book of revelation is a lie.
Im saying the scripture means what it says.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Rev 14;3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne,and before the four beasts,and the elders;and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand,which were redeeemed from the earth.

Rev 15;2-3
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire;and them that had gotten the victory over the beast,and over his image,and over his mark,and over the number of his name,stand on the sea of glass,having the harps of God.
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God,and the song of the Lamb,Saying great and marvelous are thy works,Lord God Almighty;just and true are thy ways,thou King of saints.


If the gentiles on this board believe the gentiles will get the victory over the beast,then how is it only 144,000 Israelites shall sing the song of Moses and not one single gentile can learn it?

If your not in Judea,then you are not faced with the beast.

Why do you think one cannot learn that song,when it's in scripture

Deuteronomy 32:1-43 gives you the whole song....

It may mean they live the song rather than just read it.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Rev 14;3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne,and before the four beasts,and the elders;and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand,which were redeeemed from the earth.

Rev 15;2-3
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire;and them that had gotten the victory over the beast,and over his image,and over his mark,and over the number of his name,stand on the sea of glass,having the harps of God.
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God,and the song of the Lamb,Saying great and marvelous are thy works,Lord God Almighty;just and true are thy ways,thou King of saints.


If the gentiles on this board believe the gentiles will get the victory over the beast,then how is it only 144,000 Israelites shall sing the song of Moses and not one single gentile can learn it?

If your not in Judea,then you are not faced with the beast.

these are two diff groups of people- one group sings a NEW SONG that no one else could learn- the others sing the song of moses and of the lamb. these are not the same people.

 

[RaymondKroft]

I would say that the songs of Moses are the same as the Songs of Genesis. Based on Fibonacci and the logarithmic spiral.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Rev 14;3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne,and before the four beasts,and the elders;and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand,which were redeeemed from the earth.

Rev 15;2-3
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire;and them that had gotten the victory over the beast,and over his image,and over his mark,and over the number of his name,stand on the sea of glass,having the harps of God.
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God,and the song of the Lamb,Saying great and marvelous are thy works,Lord God Almighty;just and true are thy ways,thou King of saints.


If the gentiles on this board believe the gentiles will get the victory over the beast,then how is it only 144,000 Israelites shall sing the song of Moses and not one single gentile can learn it?

If your not in Judea,then you are not faced with the beast.

these are two diff groups of people- one group sings a NEW SONG that no one else could learn- the others sing the song of moses and of the lamb. these are not the same people.

They sing as it were a new song.

 

[Sinthesis]

The song of Moses = Righteous Judaism
The song of the Lamb = Christianity
The new song = Christianity

Oh, and anyone of any race can become a Jew. :o