The "Sons of Thunder."

[whirlwind]

The “two witnesses†are often said to be Elijah and Moses, or Enoch and Moses, or Zerubbabel and Jeshua and Nehemiah, Ephraim and Manasseh, among others. These of course are types for the two “groups†that are the witnesses mentioned in [Revelation 11]. This thread is to add two more names to the types we are shown for the witnesses. In these we find the man child, or who represents the man child, however this post doesn't delve into that aspect.


Mark 3:13-14 And He goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto Him whom He would: and they came unto Him. And He ordained twelve, that they should be with Him, and that He might send them forth to preach. (17) And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and He surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:

“Sons of†is a pure Hebraism, used with reference to origin, destination, or characteristic, as in…sons of fire, sons of disobedience. “Thunder†is the voice of God [Ex.9:23, Ps. 29:3, Jer. 10:13] ~ E.W. Bullinger

He called many and two of the called were chosen to be the "sons of thunder." "For many are called, but few chosen.†[Matthew 22:14] "He ordained twelve" to be with Him and the number twelve signifies...."a perfect number, perfection of government or of governmental perfection." ~ Numbers in Scripture...E.W. Bullinger

So, the twelve disciples represent whatever the perfect number of disciples will be that our Lord calls to go forth and preach....the witnesses! Some writers say James and John may have been named sons of thunder because of their forceful manner….I think not. They are types for the two witnesses chosen to be the “voice of God.â€Â

Psalms 77:18 The voice of Thy thunder was in the heaven: the lightnings (illumined) lighted the world: The earth trembled and shook. Thy way is in the sea, And Thy path in the great waters, And Thy footsteps are not known.

Revelation 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

Acts 12:1-3 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

A shadow of the future? Is king Herod, who killed one of the sons of thunder with a sword….a type for the beast that will kill the witnesses? The beast too is given a sword, a “great sword†with which to kill. [Revelation 6:4 & 8] Herod literally killed James with a sword. Will the great sword be literal or is it spiritual killing by misleading with the Word, the Sword of the Lord twisted into the great sword of the beast…..deception?


In order to keep this shorter than I normally do....I'll continue later.

 

[whirlwind]

As well as naming James and John the “sons of thunder,†there were other ways they, and also Peter, were set apart from the others….

Mark 5:36-37 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, He saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, "Be not afraid, only believe." And He suffered no man to follow Him save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.

Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with Him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and He was transfigured before them.

Mark 13:3-5 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?" And Jesus answering them began to say, "Take heed lest any man deceive you:

Mark 14:32-33 And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane: and He saith to His disciples, "Sit ye here, while I shall pray." And He taketh with Him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy; And saith unto them, "My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.


Although listed with Peter and his brother James, John was set apart in yet another way.....

John 13:23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved.

John 20:1-2 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Then she running, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, "They have taken away the Lord out of the supulchre, and we know not where they have laid Him."

John 21:7 Therefore saith unto Peter that disciple whom Jesus loved , saith unto Peter, It is the Lord." Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

Note the difference in the two. John clearly SEES the Lord but....not Peter "for he was naked," or....perhaps that means Peter was without Christ at that time. When he "heard," when his ears were opened, then he cast himself into the sea which represents humanity.


John 21:20-23 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on His breast at supper, and said, "Lord, which is he that betrayeth Thee?" Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, "Lord, and what shall this man do?" Jesus saith unto him, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou Me." Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, "He shall not die;" but, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?"

There we have a type, shown in John, of the man child. He is of the witnesses and yet separate. He is beloved of Jesus and he is the one "following" in the footsteps of Christ and that encompasses a great deal! The man child John is a type for are those that are the "last that shall be first." They are "last" in that they accomplish their destiny when they "tarry till" Jesus arrives at His second Advent and they are the first as they are the firstfruits.

 

[whirlwind]

The two "sons of thunder" were also related to Jesus...they were His cousins through their mother Salome and her sister Mary, the mother of Jesus.


John 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple standing by, whom He loved, He saith unto His mother, “Woman, behold thy son!†Then saith He to the disciple, “Behold thy mother!†And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

As James and John represent the witnesses/manchild, Mary, the mother of Jesus, represents Israel.

Revelation 12:5-6 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

As Mary "brought forth a man child," so does Israel bring forth two witnesses and...a man child. The Holy Spirit speaking through them is who feeds her during her time in the wilderness.

Luke 8:19-21 Then came to Him His mother and His brethren, and could not come at Him for the press. And it was told Him by certain which said, “Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see Thee.†And he answered and said unto them, “My mother and My brethren are these which hear the word of God and do it.â€Â

The sister of Mary (the mother of Jesus), that was standing at the cross, is….Salome. Her sons are John and James, (sons of Salome and Zebedee) and they are….cousins of Jesus. There were three Mary’s and Salome and John standing by the cross.

Salome, in the gospel of Matthew, is the woman who asked Jesus about her sons. Interestingly....the same account given in [Mark 10:35-40] doesn't mention the mother Salome.

Matthew 20:20-23 Then came to Him the mother of Zebedee’s children with her sons, worshipping Him, and desiring a certain thing of Him. And He said unto her, “what wilt thou?†she saith unto Him, “Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on Thy right hand, and the other on the left, in Thy kingdom.†But Jesus answered and said, “Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?†They say unto Him, “We are able.†And He saith unto them, “Ye shall drink indeed of My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on My right hand, and on My left, is not Mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of My Father.â€Â

Nehemiah 1:11 O LORD, I beseech Thee, let now Thine ear be attentive to the prayer of Thy servant, and to the prayer of Thy servants, who desire to fear Thy name; and prosper, I pray Thee, Thy servant this day, and grant him mercy in the sight of this man." For I was the king's cupbearer.

As Nehemiah was the cupbearer of the king...so shall those James and John are types for....drink of the King's cup. Even though Peter was included with James and John as witnesses to events it seems Peter, or who he is a type for, will not follow the same path for he was among those that (were/will be) indignate at the request of the two sons of thunder......

Matthew 20:24-26 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren. But Jesus called them unto Him, and said, “Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister:


That is very interesting to me...."the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over" and "exercise authority upon" the sons of thunder but not over the other witnesses/disciples. Why? How? When? Where?

I believe the answers are found in another type for the witnesses and their story....