the Spirit, the Water, the Blood

[Gregg]

In reference to the following verse:
"And there are three who bear witness on the earth: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are to the one." (1John 5:8 LITV)

What is this verse referring to?
What is the water and the blood?
What is the context of this verse?

Does 1 John 5:8 refer to the Trinity?

 

[JLB]

In reference to the following verse:
"And there are three who bear witness on the earth: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are to the one." (1John 5:8 LITV)

What is this verse referring to?
What is the water and the blood?
What is the context of this verse?

Does 1 John 5:8 refer to the Trinity?

It's real simple!

This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6

This is the testimony of the virgin Birth of Jesus Christ.

The Spirit is the witness.

He came by water and blood is a reference to the virgin birth.

The water and blood testify to this miracle.

Water and blood is a reference to Mary's water sack and her hymen breaking when Jesus was born.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Bible is it's best interpreter.

...and when I can remember the passage in John that helps us understand the passage in the OP I'll post again.

 

[JLB]

The Bible is it's best interpreter.

...and when I can remember the passage in John that helps us understand the passage in the OP I'll post again.

5 Jesus answered , Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

5 Jesus answered , Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

I don't think that was it, but when it comes to me I'll post it.

 

[clark thompson]

In reference to the following verse:
"And there are three who bear witness on the earth: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are to the one." (1John 5:8 LITV)

What is this verse referring to?
What is the water and the blood?
What is the context of this verse?

Does 1 John 5:8 refer to the Trinity?

The Spirit confirmed who Jesus was and He was confirmed by His baptism or water, and was confirmed by His death or the blood. I may be wrong but this is what I see.

 

[JLB]

The Spirit confirmed who Jesus was and He was confirmed by His baptism or water, and was confirmed by His death or the blood. I may be wrong but this is what I see.

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness , because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6 KJV


The rest of humanity came into the world by water only.

Jesus Christ is the Only One who came into the world by both water and blood.

This means He is the Only One who came into the world by a virgin birth.

Her hymen was not broken until He came into the world.

The Spirit is the witness.

The water and blood is the witness.

These three are witness to the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.


JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

In reference to the following verse:
"And there are three who bear witness on the earth: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are to the one." (1John 5:8 LITV)

What is this verse referring to?
What is the water and the blood?
What is the context of this verse?

Does 1 John 5:8 refer to the Trinity?

1Jo 5:7 reflects the Trinity as the source of divine evidence in favor of Jesus as the promised Jewish Messiah through the OT (Father), Gospel (Son), and lives of believers (Holy Spirit).

1Jo 5:8 is referring to the coincidental evidence around believers supporting Jesus as the promised Jewish Messiah where:

Spirit refers to the reinforcing truths revealed to those who follow Jesus.
Water refers to the baptismal life changing nature of following Jesus.
Blood refers to Jesus' death and resurrection; unique among those sent by God.​

The context of 1Jo 5:8 can also be limited to Judaism, where Spirit refers to the truth that Judaism promises a Messiah.
Water is the life changing nature of accepting Jesus as Messiah, and blood still signifies Jesus' death and resurrection.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Spirit confirmed who Jesus was and He was confirmed by His baptism or water, and was confirmed by His death or the blood. I may be wrong but this is what I see.

You just helped me remember the passage in John I was thinking of but couldn't put my mental finger on:

"34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe. 36 For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, "NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN." 37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED." (John 19:34-37 NASB caps in original)

 

[Edward]

You just helped me remember the passage in John I was thinking of but couldn't put my mental finger on:

"34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe. 36 For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, "NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN." 37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED." (John 19:34-37 NASB caps in original)

That's what i thought when I read your above post, but you found it already, I see. It does make sense, but OTOH, so does what JLB said. I never thought of that before. It could mean both too.

who bear witness on the earth

Another thing, when Ron Wyatt found the Ark of the Covenant below the crucifixion site, there was a dark substance on top of it. This turned out to be blood, presumably, Jesus's blood, which was carried down through a crack in the rocks when He died and then there came an earthquake which opened the crack in the rocks and Jesus blood was carried own with the water and drained onto the top of the mercy seat.

It bears witness of what happened. They even tested the blood and it was missing the chromosomes which would have identified that the person had an earthly father...which He didn't.

 

[Gregg]

I was looking at the Gk. text of 1Jn 5:6 and noticed a couple of things:

"This is the One coming through [δια, genitive] water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by [εν ] the water only, but by [εν] the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the One witnessing, because the Spirit is the truth." (1Jn 5:6 LITV)

"And there are three who bear witness on the earth: The Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are to the one" (1Jn 5:8 LITV).

I am wondering if every instance of "water" in 1Jn 5:6-8 is the same [type of] water; in other words, I think that one or more instances of "water" may be a metaphor for 'the testimony of God' or 'the word of God.'

And more questions: What does it mean for the water to bear witness on earth in 1Jn 5:8? Is there water in heaven that also bears witness, and if so, is it mentioned in these verses?

 

[Edward]

I was looking at the Gk. text of 1Jn 5:6 and noticed a couple of things:

"This is the One coming through [δια, genitive] water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by [εν ] the water only, but by [εν] the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the One witnessing, because the Spirit is the truth." (1Jn 5:6 LITV)

"And there are three who bear witness on the earth: The Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and the three are to the one" (1Jn 5:8 LITV).

I am wondering if every instance of "water" in 1Jn 5:6-8 is the same [type of] water; in other words, I think that one or more instances of "water" may be a metaphor for 'the testimony of God' or 'the word of God.'

And more questions: What does it mean for the water to bear witness on earth in 1Jn 5:8? Is there water in heaven that also bears witness, and if so, is it mentioned in these verses?

That's an interesting question there brother. Some say that water may in fact be conscious! There's a Japanese scientist that films water as it freezes, and has discovered that the ice crystals change their structure for better or worse dependent upon the type of music that is being played to it. He then would speak to the water and say various things to the water while it was freezing. When he spoke bad to the water, the crystals would not look nice, when he spoke good to the water, the ice crystals did look nice. He reported that the absolute nicest looking ice crystals that he ever got, was when he prayed aloud in front of the water.

Take that for what you will...he has a book called "The secret life of water"...so there may really be more to water than we realize, as weird as it may sound.

 

[JLB]

Here is a question for Gregg and all who are participating in this thread.


1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son.
10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:1-13

How is it that you can just decide that John who is speaking in plain and clear literal words, just to somehow decide to change into some deep symbolic or parabolic language here in verse 6, then just go back to plain literal language.

This type of interpretation method is scary to say the least!

Why not just use this same method of interpretation to understand verse 1?

What if someone just decided that this is just a secret coded message of some sort and needed to "searched out" with a special bible code breaker "understanding".


Brother, John is giving us some clear plain instruction with literal language.

water and blood are literal water and blood.

Jesus Christ was born of a virgin woman through a natural child birth.

This woman had a hymen, the hymen is proof that she was a virgin.

This woman gave birth to Jesus after she carried Him in her womb, inside her water sack.

Both her water sack and her hymen broke and spilled out both water and blood when He came into this world from His mothers womb.

That is the meaning of - This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood.


It doesn't mean anything other than what John plainly and clearly said.


JLB

 

[Gregg]

That's an interesting question there brother. Some say that water may in fact be conscious! There's a Japanese scientist that films water as it freezes, and has discovered that the ice crystals change their structure for better or worse dependent upon the type of music that is being played to it. He then would speak to the water and say various things to the water while it was freezing. When he spoke bad to the water, the crystals would not look nice, when he spoke good to the water, the ice crystals did look nice. He reported that the absolute nicest looking ice crystals that he ever got, was when he prayed aloud in front of the water.

Take that for what you will...he has a book called "The secret life of water"...so there may really be more to water than we realize, as weird as it may sound.

It hasn't entered into my thinking that 'water' has a consciousness, or a secret life; that's pretty far out there.

I am thinking that "water" in at least one instance in 1Jn 5:6-8 may be a metaphor for the "word of God" or the "testimony of God" (1Jn 5:9-11), the word or testimony being an active witness of God the Father.

 

[Gregg]

Both her water sack and her hymen broke and spilled out both water and blood when He came into this world from His mothers womb.

That is the meaning of - This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood.

It doesn't mean anything other than what John plainly and clearly said.

But . . . 1Jn 5:8 talks about a witness of the Spirit, the water, and the blood.

I can not see how Mary's blood [if it is even being referred to] has a witness relevant to the context. The blood in 1Jn 5:8 has a witness, and is not the same blood as what might have been] from Mary in childbirth [if 1Jn 5:6 is talking about Mary's water and blood]. If one verse talks about Mary's blood, and another verse talks about Jesus' blood - then perhaps 1Jn 5:6-8 is also talking about two different waters - one literal and another metaphorical or representing something else.

Yes, these verses sound straight forward or simple; but I think more is there than what appears with a casual reading. I am not necessarily looking for something symbolic or parabolic; but if it is there, then I want to understand it.

 

[Gregg]

For future reference, I understand 1Jn 5:7 to be translated similar to ESV, Holman, and NIV:
"For there are three that testify:" (1Jn 5:7) - excluding the final phrase 'the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.'

 

[JLB]

But . . . 1Jn 5:8 talks about a witness of the Spirit, the water, and the blood.

That blood has a witness, and is not the same blood as [what might have been] from Mary in childbirth [if 1Jn 5:6 is talking about Mary's water and blood]. If one verse talks about Mary's blood, and another verse talks about Jesus' blood - the perhaps 1Jn 5:6-8 is also talking about two different waters - one literal and another metaphorical or representing something else.

Yes, these verses sound straight forward or simple; but I think more is there than what appears with a casual reading. I am not necessarily looking for something symbolic or parabolic; but if it is there, then I want to understand it.

Why do you believe there are two different types of water in John's teaching here?

What word or phrase indicates or causes you to believe such a thing?

I am curious as to how you perceive these verses and what gives you the inclination or idea for such a statement.

Please help me to understand how you decide that there are two different waters mentioned.

Please acknowledge that you understand what I wrote about real literal blood that comes from Mary's hymen, which proves that she was a virgin when Jesus was born.

Please let me know if you understand what a hymen is?

6 This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

Please share with me why you believe there are two different water's being mentioned in these verses.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Gregg said -

If one verse talks about Mary's blood, and another verse talks about Jesus' blood

6 This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. 1 John 5:6-8

This all referring to the same blood.

This is all referring to the same water.

He came...by water... is crystal clear. A clear reference to Jesus who came into the world by the water of natural child birth, and not only the water of natural child birth by by the blood that come from a virgin who still has a hymen when she delivers a child into the world.

the blood and water of this miracle birth are a testimony and witness to the both natural human birth of Jesus Christ and the supernatural birth of the Son of God born of a virgin.

The water and the blood of Mary's hymen.

same blood, same water.


JLB

 

[Edward]

It hasn't entered into my thinking that 'water' has a consciousness, or a secret life; that's pretty far out there.

I am thinking that "water" in at least one instance in 1Jn 5:6-8 may be a metaphor for the "word of God" or the "testimony of God" (1Jn 5:9-11), the word or testimony being an active witness of God the Father.

It IS pretty far out there. I had never thought such a thing either, but after the book and vids...you never really know about stuff like that and in a twilight zone kind of way...who knows? there may be realities like that, that we don't know about. And I have read about this stuff, so thought to bring it to your attention since you asked about water. The man sounds convincing and says that he has done a lot of testing and this is what he is finding out.

 

[Edward]

Here is a question for Gregg and all who are participating in this thread.


1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son.
10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:1-13

How is it that you can just decide that John who is speaking in plain and clear literal words, just to somehow decide to change into some deep symbolic or parabolic language here in verse 6, then just go back to plain literal language.

This type of interpretation method is scary to say the least!

Why not just use this same method of interpretation to understand verse 1?

What if someone just decided that this is just a secret coded message of some sort and needed to "searched out" with a special bible code breaker "understanding".


Brother, John is giving us some clear plain instruction with literal language.

water and blood are literal water and blood.

Jesus Christ was born of a virgin woman through a natural child birth.

This woman had a hymen, the hymen is proof that she was a virgin.

This woman gave birth to Jesus after she carried Him in her womb, inside her water sack.

Both her water sack and her hymen broke and spilled out both water and blood when He came into this world from His mothers womb.

That is the meaning of - This is He who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood.


It doesn't mean anything other than what John plainly and clearly said.


JLB

Never thought of this, but I do gotta admit...it does make sense.