The thief .......

[Jethro Bodine]

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


Calling the Word of God pagan is bit much withheld.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Jesus called us the 'church'.

I guess every theology has it's own four letter word that should never be uttered.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

.....................................the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil

;.............................Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer

..........................The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill

This is not rocket science here................... Jesus did not come because of some old religious people that were confused. He came because of the Father of those religious people, their Father the devil.

Mike.

Yes, it's clear that the thief, in whatever form he takes, is still the devil hard at work trying to overcome and destroy the church. But which Jesus said will not happen.

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. " (Matthew 16:18 NIV)

 

[Brother Mike]

Yes, it's clear that the thief, in whatever form he takes, is still the devil hard at work trying to overcome and destroy the church. But which Jesus said will not happen.

Seems clear to me also. The Gates of Hell shall not prevail.

 

[ejected]

The gain saying of Korah. Gain saying: to deny or contradict. Moses led
Israel out of Egypt by Gods design. Korah, with his own self interests wanted to usurp Moses appointed authority.
Today our Moses is The Son of God, Jesus Christ. The first attempt at a clergy class which usurps Jesus' authority, was The mother of her 2 sons wanting Jesus to place them on either side of Him in heaven.
Some get upset when I am forced to repeat myself but here it goes.
Diotrephes tried to lord it over the sheep, and John didn't take to kindly to it. He wanted to be the executive pastor.
Gain saying is what the clerical system is all about. They deny Christ's headship over His body by taking that position unto themselves, fully contradicting everything Jesus died for to establish, Him as Shepherd over His sheep, Master and Pastor over His flock, Him as Head with a functional, every member participation, body to express Himself to His own and to the world.
Now. Shall we talk about the spirit of Balaam and his use of deceit to gain wages? Any elder with a greedy, covetious, spirit is a hireling seeking ill gotten gain, filthy lucre.....a salary. Using extortion (to threaten with violence if payment is not made), coercion. Threatening with a Malachi curse if you don't pay up an unbiblical tithe. The spirit of Korah, denying Christ's authoritative position with a lemon twist of Balaams lust for gain.
We might as well throw Cain into the mix and finish this verse out. The spirit of malice toward his brother Abel.
I have had more than one occasion experienced Christians going into a satanic rage in my presence.
I was on fire when I got saved and had no problem witnessing. Then one day this secret Christian took me aside and with fierce rage tore me apart like 'how dare you be talking to people about Christ. I'm a Christian to and and you need to stop', on and on and on.
I was in this church where the pastor said 'baptists don't know to much about being led of the Spirit' with a grin on his face. I said 'was it Pentecostals or baptists that supported Jimmy Swaggert?' This was after his scandals hit.
It got real quiet. I opened a can of worms i guess. Then this 60 year old elder/leader next to me said ' keep quiet or we can go into the back room and talk about this'. The dreaded back room!!! Have you ever been there? Don't let them take you there.
So I said'lets go'. I felt the demons moving in. Got back into the 'back room' and he went into a demonic rage tearing me into pieces bit by bit. I will not go into details. Later I found out that this Holy Spirit filled leader put a gun to his wife's head in a fight.
I could give you case after case of so called saints of God that have this unholy malice in their hearts. Cains. Especially when you speak the truth to a thing.
I'll mention PAul Crouch and his rage when he said 'I'm sick and tired of people sending us letters full of doctrinal doo doo saying we're not doing things right.'
The spirit of Balaam, Cain, and Korah.
The denying of Christ is so subtle. They claim Christ as their own but keep him from His rightful place as Head and Controller. 2Peter 2:1 false prophets for profit and false teachers for gain.
Some day someone is going to get this.

 

[Sparkey]

The gain saying of Korah. Gain saying: to deny or contradict. Moses led Israel out of Egypt by Gods design. Korah, with his own self interests wanted to usurp Moses appointed authority.

He stated, "All the congregation is holy." The rebellion was against Moses and Aaron, the men appointed to lead, not against God. Those under Moses claimed that they were entitled to the same consideration as Moses.

Korah and many "men of renown" gathered to accuse Moses (their leadership) of "taking too much upon themselves"

And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?

They accused their leadership, appointed by God, to have lifted themselves up.

Remind me how that went for them, please.

 

[Sparkey]

The first attempt at a clergy class which usurps Jesus' authority, was The mother of her 2 sons wanting Jesus to place them on either side of Him in heaven.

Interesting twist there. Asking for the right and left hand position is not usurping. Now, if they had gone out and said (lying) that they were in fact given that authority, that would be usurping. They asked, they were answered. No attempt to seize and hold authority was made, it was requested, yes, but that's all. To defend this, one must show how authority was used without right, without appointment. They did not highjack, assume, accroach or grab hold of. The mother, kneeling down, asked.

 

[Sparkey]

Diotrephes tried to lord it over the sheep, and John didn't take to kindly to it. He wanted to be the executive pastor.

Executive Pastor? He falsely considered himself to be a church boss of some sort and clearly denied apostolic authority. I don't see any mention of him being an elder or deacon, let alone a pastor. Do you?