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The Tree of Life

D

Douglas King

Member
I joined this forum to get an answer to a question: If Adam and Eve were sinless and immortal, why was the Tree of Life, the tree that gives immortal life, with them in the Garden of Eden?
 
I'm glad you asked. Two places in the Bible CEV. 1. The Old Testament: Genesis Ch. 3 Vs. 22 and 2. the New Testament: Romans Ch. 5, Vs. 12.

Gen 3:22 states that God said (to somebody) "they must not be allowed to eat fruit of the tree that lets them live forever". Presumably, He is talking about the Tree of Life. This suggests that Adam and Eve were mortal, now that they had sinned (by eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil). So, sin means mortality. Moreover, God had said that Adam and Eve could eat of any tree in the Garden, including the Tree of Life, which gives immortality. So, Adam and Eve could have been mortal or immortal, while in the Garden, depending on whether or not they had eaten from the Tree of Life.

Rom 5:12 states that "Adam sinned and that sin brought death into the world". So, again sin means mortality. Thus, sinless means immortality.

So, my question stands: Given that Adam and Eve were sinless and thus immortal, why was the Tree of Life with them in the Garden of Eden?
 
I was thinking about my statement regarding the mortality/immortality of Adam and Eve before they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. I said that Adam and Eve could have been mortal or immortal while in the Garden. But, looking at Romans 5:12, it is indirectly states that Adam and Eve MUST have been immortal in order for that statement to be true. Therefore, I take back what I said above about their mortality/immortality while in the Garden; they were immortal.
 
Douglas King said:
I was thinking about my statement regarding the mortality/immortality of Adam and Eve before they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. I said that Adam and Eve could have been mortal or immortal while in the Garden. But, looking at Romans 5:12, it is indirectly states that Adam and Eve MUST have been immortal in order for that statement to be true. Therefore, I take back what I said above about their mortality/immortality while in the Garden; they were immortal.
Click to expand...
I do not believe they were immortal, but rather, their days had not been numbered. Flesh and blood is not immortal. Their bodies were always subject to age/disease, but could remain free of this conditionally. I almost thought maybe they had glorified bodies, but they were only flesh and blood. They did have perfect bodies with perfect DNA. They were sinless for a time. Adam and Eve could only keep their days from being numbered as long as they obeyed. Remaining in Eden where the Tree of Life was kept their days un-numbered. I don't know if I'd call that immortality(maybe).
I guess I think of the angels. Whether in heaven or hell- they're immortal.
 
This is a good topic and these are just my thoughts.

Adam and Eve were created perfect, but I don't think they were created immortal as when we read in the genealogies in Genesis 5, beginning with Adam he lived to be 930 years old when he died. From Adam to Noah the life expectancy was around 950 years, give or take a few years. After the flood God lowered the life expectancy to around 120 years, Genesis 6:1-3.

The tree of life stands as a symbol of God's life giving presence and the fullness of eternal life available in God. But, this fullness of life in it's physical and Spiritual dimensions could only be maintained through obedience to God's command. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God they were expelled from the garden. The reason being is that God did not want them to run the risk of eating from the tree of life and forever live in disobedience to Him.

Now we can see the symbol of the tree of life that is Christ Jesus being the life giver to all who will obey God's commands.
 
daninthelionsden said:
I do not believe they were immortal, but rather, their days had not been numbered. Flesh and blood is not immortal. Their bodies were always subject to age/disease, but could remain free of this conditionally. I almost thought maybe they had glorified bodies, but they were only flesh and blood. They did have perfect bodies with perfect DNA. They were sinless for a time. Adam and Eve could only keep their days from being numbered as long as they obeyed. Remaining in Eden where the Tree of Life was kept their days un-numbered. I don't know if I'd call that immortality(maybe).
I guess I think of the angels. Whether in heaven or hell- they're immortal.
Click to expand...
"Their days had not been numbered". That's interesting. With that statement, Adam and Eve could be considered immortal if God chose to not number their days. And yet, they would have to be considered mortal if God chose to number their days, that number being as large or small as He wished. So, from that point of view, Adam and Eve's mortality/immortality was entirely up to God.

But not according to Gen 3:22, where God said "They (Adam and Eve) must not be allowed to eat fruit of the tree that lets them live forever". Sounds like God doesn't have much more control over their mortality/immortality other than to kick them out of the Garden. Something is not making sense here. It sounds like the Tree of Life have more power over Adam and Eve's mortality/immortality than God.
 
for_his_glory said:
This is a good topic and these are just my thoughts.

Adam and Eve were created perfect, but I don't think they were created immortal as when we read in the genealogies in Genesis 5, beginning with Adam he lived to be 930 years old when he died. From Adam to Noah the life expectancy was around 950 years, give or take a few years. After the flood God lowered the life expectancy to around 120 years, Genesis 6:1-3.

The tree of life stands as a symbol of God's life giving presence and the fullness of eternal life available in God. But, this fullness of life in it's physical and Spiritual dimensions could only be maintained through obedience to God's command. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God they were expelled from the garden. The reason being is that God did not want them to run the risk of eating from the tree of life and forever live in disobedience to Him.

Now we can see the symbol of the tree of life that is Christ Jesus being the life giver to all who will obey God's commands.
Click to expand...
Remember that by the time we get to Genesis 5, Adam and Eve have already sinned and thus are now mortal. So, Genesis 5 makes sense in that context for you will notice that as the generations progress, lives are shorter in duration. This seems to imply that with the accumulation of sin, lives become shorter.

We still come back to Romans 5:12, where because Adam and Eve sinned, they brought death into the world. This would imply that they were immortal before they sinned.
 
The responses to my original question about the presence of the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden consistently state that Adam and Eve were mortal while in the Garden. That is interesting, because though this is a small sampling of Christians, I had the opinion that most Christians held the belief that Adam and Eve were immortal while in the Garden. Guess I was wrong to think that.

Here's the situation: I think they were immortal; you think they were not.

Let me propose a third possibility: Suppose the Tree of Life is NOT the Tree that gives immortality in the classical sense. Suppose rather, that it is a Tree that gives 'effective immortality'. What I mean by that is the Tree of Life maintains the body indefinitely as long as you periodically eat its fruit. As long as you do that, you will be effectively immortal. So, the Tree of Life becomes a life sustainer, rather than a Tree that give immortal life. So, Adam and Eve could now be considered mortal while in the Garden of Eden. They could also be considered immortal while in the Garden of Eden. And the rest of the relevant Scriptures still remain true.

What do you think?
 
Douglas King said:
Remember that by the time we get to Genesis 5, Adam and Eve have already sinned and thus are now mortal. So, Genesis 5 makes sense in that context for you will notice that as the generations progress, lives are shorter in duration. This seems to imply that with the accumulation of sin, lives become shorter.

We still come back to Romans 5:12, where because Adam and Eve sinned, they brought death into the world. This would imply that they were immortal before they sinned.
Click to expand...
Can't say if God created them immortal or not as there is no way of knowing this so it is a fruitless discussion.
 
Douglas King said:
I joined this forum to get an answer to a question: If Adam and Eve were sinless and immortal, why was the Tree of Life, the tree that gives immortal life, with them in the Garden of Eden?
Click to expand...
Here plays the conundrum as no where in scripture does it say God created Adam and Eve immortal.

Genesis 2:7 does not state that Adam became or was given an immortal soul. It says that he became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here dust + breath/spirit from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our spirit is preserved with God for final judgment.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The soul which makes up the conscious part of ones being is that of thought, action and emotion. The spiritual nature of man regarded as immortal and separable from the body/flesh at death and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state. Without the spirit/breath from God our soul would not be alive as spirit and soul are connected, Genesis 2:7.
 
for_his_glory said:
Here plays the conundrum as no where in scripture does it say God created Adam and Eve immortal.

Genesis 2:7 does not state that Adam became or was given an immortal soul. It says that he became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here dust + breath/spirit from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our spirit is preserved with God for final judgment.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The soul which makes up the conscious part of ones being is that of thought, action and emotion. The spiritual nature of man regarded as immortal and separable from the body/flesh at death and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state. Without the spirit/breath from God our soul would not be alive as spirit and soul are connected, Genesis 2:7.
Click to expand...
Look at Romans 5:12.
 
This discussion did not go the way that I hoped it would. Therefore, I apologize for wasting your time. I withdraw from this forum.
 
daninthelionsden said:
I do not believe they were immortal, but rather, their days had not been numbered. Flesh and blood is not immortal. Their bodies were always subject to age/disease, but could remain free of this conditionally. I almost thought maybe they had glorified bodies, but they were only flesh and blood. They did have perfect bodies with perfect DNA. They were sinless for a time. Adam and Eve could only keep their days from being numbered as long as they obeyed. Remaining in Eden where the Tree of Life was kept their days un-numbered. I don't know if I'd call that immortality(maybe).
I guess I think of the angels. Whether in heaven or hell- they're immortal.
Click to expand...
I've decided to take one last stab as this: Why do I believe Adam and Eve were immortal? Three reasons. One, God said that if they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that they would die, Gen 2:15-16. Clearly, they must be immortal for God to say that. Two, once Adam and Eve sinned by eating from the Tree of Knowledge, God said that they must not be permitted to eat from the Tree of Life that gives everlasting life, Gen 3:22. Now they are mortal, but only after they sinned. And finally, three, God said that when Adam and Eve sinned, that sin brought death into the world. This implies that they were immortal before they sinned. All three of these Biblical passage indicate that Adam and Eve were immortal before they sinned. Do you have another interpretation? Where do you get the idea that they were mortal, by the way?
 
for_his_glory said:
Here plays the conundrum as no where in scripture does it say God created Adam and Eve immortal.

Genesis 2:7 does not state that Adam became or was given an immortal soul. It says that he became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here dust + breath/spirit from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our spirit is preserved with God for final judgment.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The soul which makes up the conscious part of ones being is that of thought, action and emotion. The spiritual nature of man regarded as immortal and separable from the body/flesh at death and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state. Without the spirit/breath from God our soul would not be alive as spirit and soul are connected, Genesis 2:7.
Click to expand...
I've decided to take one last stab as this: Why do I believe Adam and Eve were immortal? Three reasons. One, God said that if they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that they would die, Gen 2:15-16. Clearly, they must be immortal for God to say that. Two, once Adam and Eve sinned by eating from the Tree of Knowledge, God said that they must not be permitted to eat from the Tree of Life that gives everlasting life, Gen 3:22. Now they are mortal, but only after they sinned. And finally, three, God said that when Adam and Eve sinned, that sin brought death into the world. This implies that they were immortal before they sinned. All three of these Biblical passage indicate that Adam and Eve were immortal before they sinned. Do you have another interpretation?
 
Douglas King said:
I've decided to take one last stab as this: Why do I believe Adam and Eve were immortal? Three reasons. One, God said that if they ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that they would die, Gen 2:15-16. Clearly, they must be immortal for God to say that. Two, once Adam and Eve sinned by eating from the Tree of Knowledge, God said that they must not be permitted to eat from the Tree of Life that gives everlasting life, Gen 3:22. Now they are mortal, but only after they sinned. And finally, three, God said that when Adam and Eve sinned, that sin brought death into the world. This implies that they were immortal before they sinned. All three of these Biblical passage indicate that Adam and Eve were immortal before they sinned. Do you have another interpretation?
Click to expand...
What God meant by they would die is that they would lose the Spiritual fellowship they had with Him as they would Spiritually die. This is why we need to be Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with God's Holy Spirit. If God would have made us immortal then this earth could not hold all the people that have been born.

If they would have turned around and ate from the tree of life after they fell from that Spiritual fellowship with God then they and all generations would have been in an eternal state of sin. Jesus was God's plan of salvation before the foundation of the world. God gave Adam a command not to eat from the tree of good and evil, but by their choice they disobeyed which now put God's plan into affect as He made the first blood sacrifice making coats of skins to cover there sin. Now Jesus was the last blood sacrifice to cover our sins.

Sin brought Spiritual death, not physical death into the world. This is why Cain killed his brother Abel as he sinned against God losing that Spiritual fellowship with Him.
 
So, you don't believe in the usual and ordinary interpretation of biblical scripture? If God meant that by eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil that Adam and Eve would spiritually die, why didn't He just say so?
 
What God meant by they would die is that they would lose the Spiritual fellowship with Him as they would Spiritually die. If God would have made us immortal then this earth could not hold all the people that have been born.

If they would have turned around and ate from the tree of life after they fell then they and all generations would have been in an eternal state of sin. Jesus was God's plan of salvation before the foundation of the world. God gave Adam a command not to eat from the tree of good and evil, but by their choice they disobeyed which now put God's plan in effect.

Sin brought Spiritual death, not physical death into the world. This is why Cain killed his brother Abel as he sinned against God losing that fellowship with Him.
 
daninthelionsden said:
I do not believe they were immortal, but rather, their days had not been numbered. Flesh and blood is not immortal. Their bodies were always subject to age/disease, but could remain free of this conditionally. I almost thought maybe they had glorified bodies, but they were only flesh and blood. They did have perfect bodies with perfect DNA. They were sinless for a time. Adam and Eve could only keep their days from being numbered as long as they obeyed. Remaining in Eden where the Tree of Life was kept their days un-numbered. I don't know if I'd call that immortality(maybe).
I guess I think of the angels. Whether in heaven or hell- they're immortal.
Click to expand...
There is no mention of "numbering of days" in the Bibles, New King James or the Contemporary English Version. You talk about something that, as far as these Bibles are concerned, doesn't exist. Where did you get that idea of "numbering of days"?
 
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