The Trinity

[Johann!@#]

Jesus Christ is LORD; YHWH

Jesus is recognized as both Yahweh and Elohim in the prophecy in Isaiah 40:3: “Prepare the way of the Lord [Yahweh]; make straight in the desert a highway for our God [Elohim].” This verse was written in reference to John the Baptist preparing for the coming of Christ (as confirmed in John 1:23) and represents one of the strongest affirmations of Christ’s deity in the Old Testament. In Isaiah 9:6, we likewise read a prophecy of Christ with a singular variant (El) of Elohim: “And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God [El], Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

Jesus is Theos. The New Testament Greek word for God, Theos, is the corresponding parallel to the Old Testament Hebrew term Elohim. A well-known example of Christ being addressed as God (Theos) is found in the story of “doubting Thomas” in John 20. In this passage, Thomas witnesses the resurrected Christ and worshipfully responds: “My Lord and my God [Theos]” (John 20:28).

Jesus is called Theos throughout the rest of the New Testament. For example, when a jailer asked Paul and Silas how to be saved, they responded: “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household” (Acts 16:31). After the jailer believed and became saved, he “rejoiced, having believed in God [Theos] with all his household” (verse 34). Believing in Christ and believing in God are seen as identical acts.

Jesus Possesses the Attributes of God
Jesus possesses attributes that belong only to God.

Jesus is eternal. John 1:1 affirms: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” The word was in this verse is an imperfect tense, indicating continuous, ongoing existence. When the timespace universe came into being, Christ already existed (Hebrews 1:8–11).

Jesus is self-existent. As the Creator of all things (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2), Christ himself must be uncreated. Colossians 1:17 tells us that Christ is “before all things, and in Him all things consist.”

Jesus is everywhere-present. Christ promised His disciples, “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Since people all over the world gather in Christ’s name, the only way He could be present with them all is if He is truly omnipresent (see Matthew 28:20; Ephesians 1:23, 4:10; Colossians 3:11).

Jesus is all-knowing. Jesus knew where the fish were in the water (Luke 5:4, 6; John 21:6–11), and He knew just which fish contained the coin (Matthew 17:27). He knew the future (John 11:11, 18:4), specific details that would be encountered (Matthew 21:2–4), and knew from a distance that Lazarus had died (John 11:14). He also knows the Father as the Father knows Him (Matthew 11:27; John 7:29, 8:55, 10:15, 17:25).

Jesus is all-powerful. Christ created the entire universe (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2) and sustains the universe by His own power (Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3). During His earthly ministry, He exercised power over nature (Luke 8:25), physical diseases (Mark 1:29–31), demonic spirits (Mark 1:32–34), and even death (John 11:1–44).

Jesus is sovereign. Christ presently sits at the right hand of God the Father, “angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him” (1 Peter 3:22). When Christ comes again in glory, He will be adorned with a majestic robe, and on the thigh section of the robe will be the words, “KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS” (Revelation 19:16).

Jesus is sinless. Jesus challenged Jewish leaders: “Which of you convicts Me of sin?” (John 8:46). The apostle Paul referred to Jesus as “Him who knew no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus is one who “loved righteousness and hated lawlessness” (Hebrews 1:9), was “without sin” (Hebrews 4:15), and was “holy, harmless, [and] undefiled” (Hebrews 7:26).

Jesus Possesses the Authority of God
Jesus always spoke in His own divine authority. He never said, “Thus saith the Lord” as did the prophets; He always said, “Verily, verily, I say unto you. . . .” He never retracted anything He said, never guessed or spoke with uncertainty, never made revisions, never contradicted himself, and never apologized for what He said. He even asserted, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away” (Mark 13:31), hence elevating His words directly to the realm of heaven.

Jesus Performs the Works of God
Jesus’ deity is also proved by His miracles. His miracles are often called “signs” in the New Testament. Signs always signify something—in this case, that Jesus is the divine Messiah.

Some of Jesus’ more notable miracles include turning water into wine (John 2:7–8); walking on the sea (Matthew 14:25; Mark 6:48; John 6:19); calming a stormy sea (Matthew 8:26; Mark 4:39; Luke 8:24); feeding 5,000 men and their families (Matthew 14:19; Mark 6:41; Luke 9:16; John 6:11); raising Lazarus from the dead (John 11:43–44); and causing the disciples to catch a great number of fish (Luke 5:5–6).

Jesus Is Worshiped as God
Jesus was worshiped on many occasions in the New Testament. He accepted worship from Thomas (John 20:28), the angels (Hebrews 1:6), some wise men (Matthew 2:11), a leper (Matthew 8:2), a ruler (Matthew 9:18), a blind man (John 9:38), an anonymous woman (Matthew 15:25), Mary Magdalene (Matthew 28:9), and the disciples (Matthew 28:17).

Scripture is emphatic that only God can be worshiped (Exodus 34:14; Deuteronomy 6:13; Matthew 4:10). In view of this, the fact that both humans and angels worshiped Jesus on numerous occasions shows He is God.

Old Testament Parallels Prove Jesus Is God
A comparison of the Old and New Testaments provides powerful testimony to Jesus’s identity as God. For example, a study of the Old Testament indicates that it is only God who saves. In Isaiah 43:11, God asserts: “I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no savior.” This verse indicates that (1) a claim to be Savior is, in itself, a claim to deity; and (2) there is only one Savior—the Lord God. It is thus highly revealing of Christ’s divine nature that the New Testament refers to Jesus as “our great God and Savior” (Titus 2:13).

Likewise, God asserted in Isaiah 44:24: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, who stretches out the heavens all alone, who spreads abroad the earth by Myself” (emphasis added). The fact that God alone “makes all things” (Isaiah 44:24)—and the accompanying fact that Christ is claimed to be the Creator of “all things” (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2)—proves that Christ is truly God.

Preincarnate Appearances of Christ
Many theologians believe that appearances of the “angel of the Lord” (or, more literally, “angel of Yahweh”) in Old Testament times were preincarnate appearances of Jesus Christ. (The word preincarnate means “before becoming a human being.”) There are a number of evidences for this view:

The angel of Yahweh appeared to Moses in the burning bush and claimed to be God (Exodus 3:6).
Yet, the angel of Yahweh was sent into the world by Yahweh (Judges 13:8–9), just as Jesus was sent into the world in New Testament times by the Father (John 3:17).
The angel of Yahweh prayed to Yahweh on behalf of the people of God (Zechariah 1:12), just as Jesus prays to the Father for the people of God today (Hebrews 7:25; 1 John 2:1–2).
It would seem that appearances of this “angel” could not be the Father or the Holy Spirit. After all, the Father is One “whom no one has seen or can see” (1 Timothy 6:16, NIV; see also John 1:18, 5:37). Moreover, the Holy Spirit cannot be physically seen (John 14:17). That leaves only Jesus.
The angel of Yahweh and Jesus engaged in amazingly similar ministries—such as delivering the enslaved (Exodus 3; Galatians 1:4; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 2 Timothy 4:18; Hebrews 2:14–15) and comforting the downcast (Genesis 16:7–13; 1 Kings 19:4–8; Matthew 14:14, 15:32–39).
These evidences suggest that appearances of the angel of Yahweh in Old Testament times were preincarnate appearances of Christ. Assuming this is correct, the word “angel” is used of Christ in these verses in accordance with its Hebrew root, which means “messenger, one who is sent, envoy.” Christ, as the angel of Yahweh, was acting on behalf of the Father, just as He did in New Testament times.

Is Jesus God?

Is Jesus really God? Many cults and false religions today deny it. What is the truth about Jesus Christ? We turn to the Scriptures for the answer.

answersingenesis.org

I can provide many rabbinical ancient writings that Messiah is indeed YHWH, so long as we don't veer off into Modalism--correct?

Ever heard of the Memra JLB?

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

The Jews sure seemed to understand what He was saying.

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him… John 8:58-59

Are we agreeing, or disagreeing? Just want to know JLB.

Exo 3:14 And Elohim said unto Moshe, Eh-heh-yeh ashair Ehheh- yeh (I AM WHO I AM); and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the Bnei Yisroel, EHHEH-YEH (I AM) hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And Elohim said moreover unto Moshe, Thus shalt thou say unto Bnei Yisroel: Hashem, Elohei Avoteichem, Elohei Avraham, Elohei Yitzchak, and Elohei Ya'akov, hath sent me unto you: this is Shemi l'olam, and this is My remembrance unto all generations.


Joh 8:58 Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach said to them, Omein, omein, I say to you, before Avraham came into being, Ani Hu. [SHEMOT 3:4; 6:3; YESHAYAH 41:4; 43:10,13]
Joh 8:59 Then they took up stones that they might stone him, but Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach was hidden and departed out of the Beis Hamikdash. [Ex 17:4; Lv 24:16; 1Sm 30:6]

Titles and Names Affirming Jesus as YHWH:
Lord (Κύριος - Kyrios): Used for both YHWH and Jesus in the New Testament, especially in the Septuagint where YHWH is translated as Kyrios.

Alpha and Omega: In Revelation 1:8 and 22:13, both God the Father and Jesus are described as "the Alpha and the Omega", the First and the Last.

Shepherd: Psalm 23:1 calls YHWH the Shepherd, while John 10:11 identifies Jesus as the Good Shepherd.

King of Kings: In 1 Timothy 6:15 and Revelation 19:16, Jesus is given the title "King of kings and Lord of lords", an exclusive title of YHWH in the Old Testament.

3. YHWH as Savior:
Isaiah 43:11 - "I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior."

Titus 2:13 - Jesus is called "our great God and Savior."

Acts 4:12 - "There is salvation in no one else..."

Jesus being called Savior directly correlates with the claim that He is YHWH, the sole Savior.

4. Jewish Reaction to Jesus’ Claims:
The Jewish leaders accused Jesus of blasphemy because He made claims to deity (e.g., John 10:30-33), demonstrating that they understood Him as claiming to be YHWH.


Jesus as YHWH is a foundational Christian doctrine rooted in both the Old and New Testaments. His use of divine titles, fulfillment of YHWH’s attributes, and direct claims affirm His identity as the incarnate God. The early Church recognized this, worshiping Jesus as Lord and God (John 20:28).

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:5


Jesus Christ is LORD; YHWH

Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the gey (valley) in the mountains; for the gey (valley) of the harim (mountains) shall extend unto Atzel; yea, ye shall flee, just as ye fled from before the ra'ash (earthquake) in the days of Uziyah Melech Yehudah; and Hashem Elohai shall come, and kol Kadoshim (all the holy ones) with Thee [see Daniel 7:13-14].

Yahweh H3068 ieue יהוה N-proper-ms YHWH Elohim-of·me H430 ale·i אלהי N-mpc+1cs my God

So yes, you are correct.

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

Before "trinity" was introduced in assemblies of followers of Jesus,
there was the Father, the Son, and Wisdom. Step by step after 100a.d. ; after 168 a.d. , doctrines and teachings of "trinity" were introduced from outside sources.

Not according to Sommers, and this pre-dates Christianity.

J.

 

[JLB]

I can provide many rabbinical ancient writings that Messiah is indeed YHWH, so long as we don't veer off into Modalism--correct?

No modalism.

 

[JLB]

So yes, you are correct.

I know scripture is correct.

 

[JLB]

Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the gey (valley) in the mountains; for the gey (valley) of the harim (mountains) shall extend unto Atzel; yea, ye shall flee, just as ye fled from before the ra'ash (earthquake) in the days of Uziyah Melech Yehudah; and Hashem Elohai shall come, and kol Kadoshim (all the holy ones) with Thee [see Daniel 7:13-14].

Yahweh H3068 ieue יהוה N-proper-ms YHWH Elohim-of·me H430 ale·i אלהי N-mpc+1cs my God

So yes, you are correct.

J.

“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

 

[Johann!@#]

“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

OK, JLB --whom did they pierce, YHWH, or Ben Elohim?

J.

 

[JLB]

OK, JLB --whom did they pierce, YHWH, or Ben Elohim?

J.

Jesus; YHWH the LORD God.

That is who spoke through the mouth of the Prophets.

The Spirit of Christ; the Spirit of the LORD.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

 

[Johann!@#]

Jesus; YHWH the LORD God.

That is who spoke through the mouth of the Prophets.

The Spirit of Christ; the Spirit of the LORD.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

Great--so it was Ben Elohim that was pierced, our Messiah. Not YHWH.

Rabbinic Perspectives-
In contrast to the Christian interpretation, Jewish literature offers various views on Zechariah 12:10, primarily not associating it directly with Messiah ben David, but sometimes with a Messianic figure or a righteous sufferer.

a. Targum Jonathan (1st-3rd Century):
Paraphrases the verse as the house of David mourning over the Messiah, hinting that the Messiah son of Joseph would suffer.

This aligns with the concept of a suffering Messiah who would later be revealed as victorious.

b. Babylonian Talmud (Sukkah 52a):
Discusses the mourning in Zechariah 12:10 as mourning over the death of Messiah ben Joseph, who would be killed in battle.

The piercing here is seen as tragic and redemptive, but the Messiah’s identity remains human rather than divine.

c. Midrash Rabba (Genesis Rabba 98:8):
Interprets the mourning as being for Joseph’s descendants, focusing on tribal suffering rather than a single messianic figure.

The idea of piercing is metaphorical for national loss rather than directly linking it to God or the Messiah.

3. Comparative Analysis-
The early Church Fathers strongly identified the piercing with Jesus (the Son of God), emphasizing the fulfillment of prophecy through the crucifixion.

Rabbinic literature, however, tends to focus on a national or tragic Messianic figure (Messiah ben Joseph) rather than a divine being suffering.

While the Christian perspective emphasizes incarnation (God suffering through Jesus), the Jewish perspective often separates God from Messianic suffering.

4. Why the Difference?
The fundamental divergence lies in the interpretive lens-
Rabbinic tradition does not equate the Messiah with YHWH, viewing the suffering as occurring to a human figure or representative leader.

“the LORD. . .will come and all the holy ones” This refers to YHWH's coming with angels (cf. Deu_33:2-3). Angels are called holy ones in Job_5:1; Job_15:5; Psa_89:5; Psa_89:7; Dan_8:13. The term “holy” is also used of believers in the OT (cf. Psa_16:3; Psa_34:9; Isa_4:3; Dan_7:18; Dan_7:21-22; Dan_7:25; Dan_7:27; Dan_8:24). In the NT it refers to Jesus' Second Coming and may include angels and believers (cf. Mat_16:27; Mat_25:31; Mar_8:38; 2Th_1:7; Rev_19:14).

Gill
and the Lord my God shall come; the Lord Jesus Christ, who is truly God, and the God of his people; and who will appear to be so at his second coming, which is here meant, by raising the dead, gathering all nations before him, and separating them; by bringing to light all secret and hidden things; judging the whole world, and executing the sentence on them; and particularly by taking his own people to himself:
and all the saints with thee:

the Targum, and the Septuagint, Syriac, and Arabic versions, read, "with him"; meaning either the holy angels; so Aben Ezra, Kimchi, and Ben Melech; who will attend him partly for the glory of his majesty, and partly for terror to the wicked, and also for service; or rather glorified saints, the spirits of just men made perfect, whom Christ will bring with him to be united to their bodies, which will now be raised, and to be with him in the new heavens and new earth, which will now be formed, and to be presented to him, and dwell with him, during the thousand years.
(i) Antiqu. l. 9. c. 10. sect. 4.

Shalom.

J.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Johann,

Exo 3:14 And Elohim said unto Moshe, Eh-heh-yeh ashair Ehheh- yeh (I AM WHO I AM); and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the Bnei Yisroel, EHHEH-YEH (I AM) hath sent me unto you.

Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense, and I also like the interesting spelling of his time and the specific spelling “I wilbe”:

Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

I suggest that "I AM" is preferred by most because they claim it supports the Trinity especially the link to John 8:58, and this appears to be why you use this reference immediately after quoting Exodus 3:14

Joh 8:58 Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach said to them, Omein, omein, I say to you, before Avraham came into being, Ani Hu. [SHEMOT 3:4; 6:3; YESHAYAH 41:4; 43:10,13]
Joh 8:59 Then they took up stones that they might stone him, but Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach was hidden and departed out of the Beis Hamikdash. [Ex 17:4; Lv 24:16; 1Sm 30:6]

This is also stated in an earlier post:

Note the many parallels to the “I am” sayings of God in Isaiah, which virtually all biblical scholars agree are echoed by Jesus’ “I am” sayings in John. Some scholars also see at least an indirect connection to God’s declaration “I am who I am” in Ex. 3:14 (especially for John 8:58).

I suggest that John 8:58 should be rendered "I am he", the same as John 8:24,28 and is part of the theme of whether Jesus is the Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Johann!@#]

I suggest that John 8:58 should be rendered "I am he", the same as John 8:24,28 and is part of the theme of whether Jesus is the Christ.

Hi TrevorL

In the Hebrew Bible, "Ani Hu" is often linked to the concept of God as the self-existent One, paralleling the expression "אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה" (Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh) or "I AM THAT I AM" (Exodus 3:14). It carries the weight of divine self-identification and reinforces the monotheistic assertion that there is no other deity besides YHWH.

Connection to the New Testament-
Interestingly, the Greek equivalent of this phrase appears in the Septuagint (LXX) as "ἐγώ εἰμι" (ego eimi), which Jesus often uses in the Gospel of John (e.g., John 8:58: "Before Abraham was, I am"). This usage echoes the "Ani Hu" of the Hebrew Scriptures, leading to strong theological connections between the Old Testament declarations of God's identity and Jesus’ claims of divinity.

Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense, and I also like the interesting spelling of his time and the specific spelling “I wilbe”:

אֶהְיֶה (Ehyeh)
Root: הָיָה (H-Y-H) - To be, to become

Form: Qal Imperfect, First Person Singular

Parsing:

Qal: Simple or basic stem, indicating the action is simple or uncaused.

Imperfect: Denotes incomplete action, which can express future, habitual, or continuous action.

First Person Singular: The speaker is God, saying "I will be" or "I am".

Translation: "I will be" or "I am"

Function: Verbal predicate, asserting the existence or ongoing presence of God.

2. אֲשֶׁר (Asher)
Root: אֲשֶׁר (ʾŠR) - A relative pronoun

Form: Relative pronoun

Function: Introduces a relative clause, meaning "that", "who", or "which".

Translation: "who" or "that"

Usage: Links the two identical verbal statements, creating a self-referential clause.

3. אֶהְיֶה (Ehyeh)
Same as the first word:

Root: הָיָה (H-Y-H)

Form: Qal Imperfect, First Person Singular

Parsing: Same as above

Translation: "I will be" or "I am"

Repetition: The second occurrence emphasizes the continuity and self-consistency of God’s being.

Grammatical Structure:
The phrase follows the pattern: Verb + Relative Pronoun + Verb

This structure is unique because the repetition of "Ehyeh" (I will be/I am) with "Asher" in between functions as a self-defining statement.

The Qal Imperfect tense of "Ehyeh" allows the phrase to imply both present reality and future assurance, which aligns with God's self-identification as both eternal and consistently present.

So much more but space will not allow.
I appreciate your input, brother, and yes, Tyndale got it right.

God bless brother.

Johann.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Johann,

In the Hebrew Bible, "Ani Hu" is often linked to the concept of God as the self-existent One, paralleling the expression "אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה" (Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh) or "I AM THAT I AM" (Exodus 3:14).

I disagree, as I consider that "I will be/become what/who I will be/become" is the correct translation and fits the context concerning God's impending deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and bringing them into the Promised Land.

Interestingly, the Greek equivalent of this phrase appears in the Septuagint (LXX) as "ἐγώ εἰμι" (ego eimi), which Jesus often uses in the Gospel of John (e.g., John 8:58: "Before Abraham was, I am").

The LXX of Exodus 3:14 does not line up with John 8:58, and the LXX is considered a poor translation of the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14, and Jesus is NOT alluding to the LXX of Exodus 3:14:

Exodus 3:14 Brenton's: And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Johann!@#]

I disagree, as I consider that "I will be/become what/who I will be/become" is the correct translation and fits the context concerning God's impending deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and bringing them into the Promised Land.

I disagree, as I consider that "I will be/become what/who I will be/become" is the correct translation and fits the context concerning God's impending deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and bringing them into the Promised Land.

Interesting--

So, let’s break down your point. You’re saying that "Ani Hu" (אֲנִי הוּא) in the Hebrew Bible is often linked to the concept of God as the self-existent One, similar to "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה) in Exodus 3:14. You also argue that the correct translation of "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" should be "I will be who I will be" rather than "I AM THAT I AM" because it fits the context of God’s impending deliverance of Israel.

Here’s why I think that perspective doesn’t capture the full picture-

1. The Linguistic Issue: Present vs. Future
First, let’s look at Exodus 3:14. The Hebrew phrase "אֶהְיֶה" (Ehyeh) is the first person singular imperfect of the verb "הָיָה" (hayah), which can mean both "to be" and "to become". The imperfect tense in Hebrew can convey either a present continuous or a future tense.

The traditional rendering as "I AM THAT I AM" captures the idea of God’s eternal, self-sustaining presence.

The alternative, "I will be who I will be," emphasizes God’s dynamic involvement in future events, particularly His commitment to deliver Israel.

The reality is that both interpretations are grammatically valid. The context of Exodus 3-God revealing His name to Moses at the burning bush-implies both present identity and future action.

2. "Ani Hu" in the Hebrew Bible
The phrase "Ani Hu" (אֲנִי הוּא) appears primarily in passages emphasizing God’s unchanging, sovereign nature-

Deuteronomy 32:39: "See now that I, even I, am he (ani hu), and there is no god beside me..."

Isaiah 43:10: "You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he (ani hu)."

Isaiah 48:12: "Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he (ani hu); I am the first, and I am the last."
In each case, "Ani Hu" is linked to God’s self-identification as the unchanging, eternal One-similar to how "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" highlights God’s self-existence.

3. Why "I AM" Is Still Appropriate brother--

You suggest that "I will be" is a better fit because it emphasizes future deliverance. While it’s true that God’s revelation to Moses involves promises of future acts, the primary purpose of Exodus 3:14 is to reveal God’s essential, unchanging nature. God is not just telling Moses what He will do, but who He is---a crucial difference.

The Septuagint (LXX) translates "Ehyeh" as "ἐγώ εἰμι" (ego eimi) "I am" indicating that ancient Jewish interpreters saw the phrase as emphasizing God’s eternal presence, not just future action.

The idea here is not limited to God’s deliverance of Israel, but to God’s nature as the eternally present One. This is consistent with God being "the same yesterday, today, and forever" (Hebrews 13:8).

4. Context of Deliverance:
While the context does include God’s promise to deliver Israel, the name "Ehyeh" is not just a prediction but a statement of identity. It assures Moses that God is eternally present with His people-not just in the future but in the immediate reality.

The future tense does not negate the present reality. Rather, it highlights that God’s being is constant-He was, is, and will be the same.

The focus on eternity and consistency is critical when Moses asks, "What is His name?"-meaning, "What is the essential nature/character of the one sending me?"


In John 8:58, Jesus uses the phrase "ἐγώ εἰμι" (ego eimi), which directly echoes "Ehyeh" from Exodus 3:14 as rendered in the LXX. This phrase is not just a statement of existence but a claim to eternal, unchanging divinity--a truth that the Jewish audience clearly understood, as shown by their intent to stone Him for blasphemy (John 8:59).

"Ani Hu" serves the same purpose in Isaiah-it shows God’s unique, eternal identity.

Therefore, Jesus’ claim to be "I AM" is consistent with the Hebrew concept of God’s self-existence, as seen both in Exodus 3:14 and in the prophets.


Your argument that "I will be" is the only correct interpretation of "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" overlooks the nuance of Hebrew verb tenses and the theological context of Exodus 3. While "I will be" is grammatically possible, it fails to capture the full scope of God’s eternal presence. The phrase "Ani Hu" also parallels this idea by emphasizing God’s consistent, self-existent nature--the same theme echoed in John 8:58.

If you’re saying that "Ani Hu" doesn’t parallel "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh", I would argue that both phrases function similarly within the context of God’s self-revelation. They affirm God’s unchanging, eternal being, which Jesus echoes when He declares, "Before Abraham was, I am."

The LXX of Exodus 3:14 does not line up with John 8:58, and the LXX is considered a poor translation of the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14, and Jesus is NOT alluding to the LXX of Exodus 3:14:

Exodus 3:14 Brenton's: And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.

I don't know what's your point of contention here.

You’re claiming that the LXX of Exodus 3:14 does not line up with John 8:58, and that the LXX translation is poor compared to the Hebrew, implying that Jesus is not alluding to the LXX at all. Let’s take a closer look at your claim.

First, the LXX of Exodus 3:14 reads: "Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν" (ego eimi ho ōn), which Brenton translates as "I am THE BEING." The Greek phrase conveys the idea of "the one who exists" or "the self-existent one." The Hebrew behind this, "אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה" (Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh), can mean "I am who I am" or "I will be who I will be." The point here is that both the LXX and the Hebrew emphasize God’s eternal, self-sustaining existence. So, while the Greek and Hebrew phrase differently, they essentially express the same theological concept-- God’s timeless existence. Not so TrevorL?

Now, let’s examine John 8:58 where Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I am" (ἐγώ εἰμι).

You’re arguing that since Jesus doesn’t use the full phrase "ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", He’s not referencing the LXX of Exodus 3:14. But here’s the problem-- the point isn’t about matching phrase-for-phrase but rather about conveying the same divine claim. The Jewish audience clearly understood Jesus’ words as a claim to divine identity because they immediately picked up stones to stone Him (John 8:59). They recognized "ἐγώ εἰμι" as an echo of God’s self-revelation to Moses-a claim to eternal, self-existent nature.

Also, saying the LXX is a poor translation is not accurate. The LXX translators were trying to convey the theological essence of the Hebrew text, focusing on God’s eternal being.

Just because the Greek uses "ὁ ὤν" and John 8:58 doesn’t, doesn’t mean the connection isn’t there. The concept of timeless existence is present in both. Plus, if Jesus had used the full "ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", it would have sounded overly formal and less direct in that context.

Historically, even the early Church Fathers like Justin Martyr and Irenaeus recognized that Jesus’ statement in John 8:58 aligns with the theological intent of Exodus 3:14. They saw "ἐγώ εἰμι" as Jesus deliberately identifying Himself with the YHWH of the Old Testament. So, while the LXX and John’s Gospel don’t use identical phrasing, they clearly align in their claim of divine identity.

So in short, just because the wording differs slightly doesn’t mean the theological message is different. The reaction of the Jewish leaders in John 8:59 confirms they understood Jesus’ claim to be divine--which wouldn’t make sense if He wasn’t referencing God’s self-identification in Exodus.

Exo 3:14 And God said to Moses, I am the one being. And he said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, The one being has sent me to you.
ABP

Exo 3:14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.
Brenton


I AM hath. Exo_3:6, Exo_6:3, Job_11:7, +*Psa_68:4; Psa_90:2, Isa_44:6, +*Mal_3:6, Mat_18:20; Mat_28:20, **Jhn_8:58, 2Co_1:20, *Heb_13:8, *Rev_1:4; *Rev_1:8; *Rev_1:17; Rev_4:8; Rev_16:5.

Do you believe Messiah is God? Or do we have an argument re "Being?" Or are you not a believer in the Triune Godhead?

J.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Johann,

You ... argue that the correct translation of "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" should be "I will be who I will be" rather than "I AM THAT I AM" because it fits the context of God’s impending deliverance of Israel.

I am considering Exodus 3:14. The immediate context is Exodus 3:12 where Ehyeh is translated "I will be" and this sets the tense and the context of God's future activity.

Exodus 3:11–12 (KJV): 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.

God had already established his existence at the burning bush and by his declaration.

Exodus 3:4–6 (KJV): 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Abraham knew God existed and was powerful to deliver when Abraham rescued Lot. Abraham calls God "The Most High El".

Genesis 14:18–22 (KJV): 18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. 21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

When Pharaoh at first resisted Moses, he was encouraged by the association of the Yahweh Name with the future deliverance of Israel out of Egypt. Abraham not only knew God as The Most High El, but also God Almighty, but here the association and exposition of the Yahweh Name is additional to the concept of God's existence.

Exodus 6:1-8 (KJV): 1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH (or Yahweh) was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Johann!@#]

Greetings again Johann,

I am considering Exodus 3:14. The immediate context is Exodus 3:12 where Ehyeh is translated "I will be" and this sets the tense and the context of God's future activity.

Exodus 3:11–12 (KJV): 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.

God had already established his existence at the burning bush and by his declaration.

Exodus 3:4–6 (KJV): 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Abraham knew God existed and was powerful to deliver when Abraham rescued Lot. Abraham calls God "The Most High El".

Genesis 14:18–22 (KJV): 18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. 21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself. 22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

When Pharaoh at first resisted Moses, he was encouraged by the association of the Yahweh Name with the future deliverance of Israel out of Egypt. Abraham not only knew God as The Most High El, but also God Almighty, but here the association and exposition of the Yahweh Name is additional to the concept of God's existence.

Exodus 6:1-8 (KJV): 1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH (or Yahweh) was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

Kind regards
Trevor

When discussing key passages, like John 8:58, where Jesus states "πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγώ εἰμι" (prin Abraam genesthai ego eimi) meaning "Before Abraham was, I am", the critical point is how Jesus’ use of "ἐγώ εἰμι" (ego eimi) directly connects to Exodus 3:14 in the LXX, where God says "Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν" (ego eimi ho ōn) - "I am the Being." This phrase signifies eternal, self-existent identity.

Just posting verses without any context or analysis avoids addressing how the Jewish audience in John 8:59 clearly understood Jesus’ claim to divine identity-which is why they picked up stones to stone Him. It’s vital to examine the Greek verbs and their theological implications rather than just stacking up verses without insight.

If we’re serious about being Bereans-examining the scriptures diligently and thoughtfully-we should actually engage with the text and the arguments being made.

Dismissing questions or presenting scripture without proper exegesis doesn’t align with that approach.

Let me know if you’re willing to actually engage with the points I’m making rather than just posting scripture without commentary.

God bless brother.

J.

 

[hawkman]

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Christian Apologetics is, by definition, a rational defense of the Christian faith. The word "apologetics" comes from the Greek word apologia, which means to give a defense or a reason. A significant passage where apologia is used1 Peter 3:15-16:

1Peter 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always...

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[Free]

Jesus Christ is LORD; YHWH

As long as we also say that YHWH isn't Jesus; Jesus is the name of the Son only. The Father is YHWH, the Son is YHWH, the Holy Spirit is YHWH.

 

[JLB]

The Father is YHWH, the Son is YHWH, the Holy Spirit is YHWH.

Of course.

I have emphasized Jesus being YHWH because so many don’t understand who He is.

Elohim; YHWH Elohim is plural and includes all Three.

At the same time for all three to be YHWH Elohim, each individual “divine Person” is YHWH.

I’m not “Oneness”.

 

[Free]

Of course.

I have emphasized Jesus being YHWH because so many don’t understand who He is.

Elohim; YHWH Elohim is plural and includes all Three.

At the same time for all three to be YHWH Elohim, each individual “divine Person” is YHWH.

I’m not “Oneness”.

So, you no longer believe that "Jesus is the Name of the LORD, YHWH the LORD God"?