The Unchangeableness of God and the Will of God

[Kermos]

Many people preach that God has a free-will.

The common refrain is along the lines of "God has freewill. Christ has freewill. Man was made in their image/likeness. Result? = Man has free will." (an actual free-willian quote).

So, the free-willian philosophy holds that God free-will chooses to change between good and evil, and, since God created man in God's image according to God's likeness (Genesis 1:26), then man does precisely the same as God; therefore, man free-will chooses to change between good and evil.

A Will Requires A Host​

First, the definition of free must be considered.

Free denotes:

1. of autonomy:
   • (noun) no constraint, uncontrolled, liberty, not enslaved, emancipation.
   • (verb) disentangled, extricate, untangle.
2. of property:
   • (noun) complimentary, without charge, gratis, no payment required.
   • (verb) give away, sacrifice.

The subject is not of property regarding free-will, so the subject is focused of autonomy regarding free-will.

The word "free" represents a relative concept, as shown in the following paragraph; in other words, a person is "free" from "something".

A person in a constitutional republic, such as the U.S.A., is free to start a business (free from being captives of the tyranny of the King of Great Britain per the U.S. Declaration of Independence), but a person in a communist country, such as North Korea, is NOT free to start a business (communist citizens are captives (owned) by their government).

Second, the definition of free-will must be considered.

Free-will: an autonomous will, an isolated willpower, detached volition, independent moral agency.

Next, considering "will", a will exists not in a vacuum; in other words, a will must be part of a host.

Respecting an unsaved person - the default first condition of every person, since a host (person) is required to host a will, then the person's will is part of the person's self, so the person's will is self-will because the person'a will is attached to the self-same person; on the other hand, the person's will is not free floating detached from the person, so the person's will is not free-will.

The Apostle proclaims a person's will is either one of but not both of:

• a person's will is controlled by God with "God having purified your souls in the obedience of the Truth through the Spirit" (1 Peter 1:21-22) and "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
• a person's will is controlled by man with "the Lord knows how" "to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

A person's will is dependent upon God (Christimage-will (bond-will), Romans 8:29), or a person's will is dependent upon man (self-will, 2 Peter 2:9-10). No other will exists for a person; moreover, free-will is an illusion as conveyed by the Apostle Paul with "I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will" (Philemon 1:14).

While the unrighteous unbelievers daringly revel in their own glory founded in their self-willed "I chose Jesus" (2 Peter 2:9-10) thus their hearts steal King Jesus Christ's glory, on the other hand, we righteousness of God in Christ believers worship the Glorious One (2 Corinthians 5:21) who sovereignly chose us (John 15:16, John 15:19 includes salvation).

Thus says Adonai YHWH (Lord GOD) "I am YHWH; that is my name; my glory I give to no other" (Isaiah 42:8), yet the free-willians try to steal God's exclusive glory in the salvation of man.

God's Will is not free will because a free-will does not have a host, yet a host is required for an associated will to exist; therefore, the Will of God is God's Will. See God's Will mentioned in 1 Peter 2:15.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT GOD HAS A FREE-WILL.

God is unchangingly good (Malachi 3:6, Psalm 107:1) for the Word of God says "no one is good except God alone" (Mark 10:18), so God is exclusively good all the time while at the same time God never changes to being evil.

In effect, free-willian philosophy includes that God imparted God-like free-will into man, and it is established that man free-will chooses between being good and being evil according to man's God-like free-will; therefore, God's free-will results in God fluctuating between good and evil because man's God-like free-will fluctuates between good and evil, so God changes to being evil by free-willian philosophers preaching that God has free-will.

THE RESULT, MAN CANNOT HAVE A GOD-LIKE FREE-WILL BECAUSE GOD CANNOT HAVE A FREE-WILL.

NO SCRIPTURE STATES THAT MAN HAS A FREE-WILL.

Free-will philosophy includes the man generated foundation that, by free-will, man can choose to be evil or good, even the ability for a natural man to free-will choose Jesus Christ unto the good of saving himself from the wrath of God.

The Word of God declares:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

 

[donadams]

Then the truth and the church both of divine origin are immutable or Unchangeable?

Cannot be changed by the tradition of men?

Thanks

 

[Kermos]

Then the truth and the church both of divine origin are immutable or Unchangeable?

Cannot be changed by the tradition of men?

Thanks

The Assembly of God is founded by my Lord and my God Jesus Christ (Matthew 16:18), yet the free-willian philosophy tradition of men leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), so free-willian worshippers do not change the Body of Christ, but the worshippers converted by God (Matthew 18:3, John 3:3-8), these worshippers worship in Spirit and Truth (John 4:24, John 14:6) doing deeds, including coming to Christ, which are wrought in God (John 3:21).

 

[gordon777]

The Apostle proclaims a person's will is either one of but not both of:

• a person's will is controlled by God with "God having purified your souls in the obedience of the Truth through the Spirit" (1 Peter 1:21-22) and "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).
• a person's will is controlled by man with "the Lord knows how" "to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

You are sowing confusion and not rightly dividing the word of truth, let me divide for you and let me stop any confusion.


1 Peter 1 shows of having hope in God, this is free will, because hope has to last, or hope fades. That is why the words are precisely that, to SEE, ( make sure, remember, keep working in being) that they love one another with pure hert fervently. ( to make sure it is with sincerity.)


1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.



Then looking t your other quote this time of 2 Peter 2, it reveals the same understanding, instead of hope in God, they despise that government, with presumption is self will, ( not hope in God) and are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. ( no fear or hope in the Lord in sincerity, as was told to SEE and love fervently.


2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.




Here are verses for everyone on hope, for context, to show how everyone has the same will, but some do it with hope, some do it without.

This thread teaches deceitfully, just read here and see how all verses show people need to do what is told, or they are not in any will of God t all.


( FOR YOU HAVE NEED OF PATIENCE, THAT, AFTER YOU HAVE DONE THE WILL OF GOD, YOU MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE. Hebrews 10:36.)



Romans 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Romans 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through
the power of the Holy Ghost.

Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Colossians 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.


1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;


1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[donadams]

The Assembly of God is founded by my Lord and my God Jesus Christ (Matthew 16:18), yet the free-willian philosophy tradition of men leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9), so free-willian worshippers do not change the Body of Christ, but the worshippers converted by God (Matthew 18:3, John 3:3-8), these worshippers worship in Spirit and Truth (John 4:24, John 14:6) doing deeds, including coming to Christ, which are wrought in God (John 3:21).

Can a man be saved without a priest?

 

[Kermos]

John the Apostle wrote "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1), so let's test your spirit.

You are sowing confusion and not rightly dividing the word of truth, let me divide for you and let me stop any confusion.



1 Peter 1 shows of having hope in God, this is free will, because hope has to last, or hope fades. That is why the words are precisely that, to SEE, ( make sure, remember, keep working in being) that they love one another with pure hert fervently. ( to make sure it is with sincerity.)



1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.




Then looking t your other quote this time of 2 Peter 2, it reveals the same understanding, instead of hope in God, they despise that government, with presumption is self will, ( not hope in God) and are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. ( no fear or hope in the Lord in sincerity, as was told to SEE and love fervently.



2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.





Here are verses for everyone on hope, for context, to show how everyone has the same will, but some do it with hope, some do it without.


This thread teaches deceitfully, just read here and see how all verses show people need to do what is told, or they are not in any will of God t all.



( FOR YOU HAVE NEED OF PATIENCE, THAT, AFTER YOU HAVE DONE THE WILL OF GOD, YOU MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE. Hebrews 10:36.)




Romans 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:


Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,


Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?


Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.


Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.


Romans 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through

the power of the Holy Ghost.


Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;


Colossians 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.


Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;


Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.


Hebrews 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:


Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:


Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.



1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;



1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

The concept and word "free-will" is absent from "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the chosen foreigners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia" (1 Peter 1:1), so here is strike one against your spirit in the very first verse you cited since you included the entire chapter by reference.

Behold, Peter mentioned "chosen foreigners" (1 Peter 1:1), so, logically, the astute reader should ask, "who does the 'choosing'?", and the answer is found in the next verse "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance" (1 Peter 1:2), so here is strike two against your spirit because you convey that man chooses God, but Peter conveys that God chooses man.

The Apostle Peter just there reiterates the precious loving words of Lord Jesus Christ that the Christ exclusively chooses us Christians unto salvation and sanctification:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

Now, let's look at the word "hope" that you mentioned in your writings. You wrote "1 Peter 1 shows of having hope in God, this is free will", yet the Apostle Peter wrote we Christians act "through the sanctifying work of the Spirit" (1 Peter 1:2) which means the very hope of we Christians is fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), but you attribute hope to deeds of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21), that is, man causes man to hope in God instead of God causing man to hope in God which results in strike three against your spirit since Peter establishes God causes hope before 1 Peter 1:21 and afterward with "through the Spirit" in 1 Peter 1:22 - God causes hope and obedience in us Christians.

The Apostle Peter just there reiterates the precious loving words of Lord Jesus Christ that God exclusively causes us Christians unto fruit of the Spirit:

he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.
(John 3:21)
​

This is about all of a Christian's action, work, deed, fruit of the Holy Spirit. Every single verse you cite is governed by this Word of God, so this is strike four and so on against your spirit..

Strike after strike after strike, gordon777.

Let's continue with 2 Peter 2:9-10

the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties.
(2 Peter 2:9-10)
​

Majestic King Jesus is Sovereign of the Kingdom of God, and Peter uses the words "angelic majesties" as an indicator of the Kingdom of God.

Since King Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), then free-willians revile His Majesty in the free-willian's self-will "I chose Jesus" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

 

[Kermos]

Can a man be saved without a priest?

You are off-topic.

 

[Free]

Can a man be saved without a priest?

Yes, but that is not to be discussed in here. That is only for the Catholic forum.

 

[gordon777]

The concept and word "free-will" is absent from "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the chosen foreigners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia" (1 Peter 1:1), so here is strike one against your spirit in the very first verse you cited since you included the entire chapter by reference.

Behold, Peter mentioned "chosen foreigners" (1 Peter 1:1), so, logically, the astute reader should ask, "who does the 'choosing'?", and the answer is found in the next verse "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance" (1 Peter 1:2), so here is strike two against your spirit because you convey that man chooses God, but Peter conveys that God chooses man.

I gave many scriptures showing how we are to do what is testified, but here will be some more for context for your words.

It is not a problem to say we are chosen in 1 Peter 1, but we have to see what we are chosen for.

2 Thessalonians 2, tells we are chosen to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. This is being called, by the gospel, to obtain the glory of Christ, and by standing fast in the traditions taught us ( in the gospel)

1 Peter 1, says the very same, for us to be sober, and hope to the end for the grace to be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ, to be obedient children, to not be as our former ignorance in lusts, to believe that God is holy, so we be holy, to call on the Father who judges without respect of persons, according to every mans work, and then to pass our time here in fear.



2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.



1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Now, let's look at the word "hope" that you mentioned in your writings. You wrote "1 Peter 1 shows of having hope in God, this is free will", yet the Apostle Peter wrote we Christians act "through the sanctifying work of the Spirit" (1 Peter 1:2) which means the very hope of we Christians is fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), but you attribute hope to deeds of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21), that is, man causes man to hope in God instead of God causing man to hope in God which results in strike three against your spirit since Peter establishes God causes hope before 1 Peter 1:21 and afterward with "through the Spirit" in 1 Peter 1:22 - God causes hope and obedience in us Christians.

Hope is faith, that is what we are saved by, through having faith in the rising of Christ from the dead.

1 peter again says how we have that hope, it is by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

That is what God caused, and gave us faith, because of the testimony given, and we are to believe in the testimony or doubt it.

The testimony and words given are Spirit, if we believe in the testimony of God we make Him true, i not we call Him a liar.


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


2 Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

The Apostle Peter just there reiterates the precious loving words of Lord Jesus Christ that God exclusively causes us Christians unto fruit of the Spirit:

​

he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.​

(John 3:21)​

​

This is about all of a Christian's action, work, deed, fruit of the Holy Spirit. Every single verse you cite is governed by this Word of God, so this is strike four and so on against your spirit..

Peter spoke about faith, in the testimony/witness of God, or ignoring of it, when they do not spend their time here in fear. John confirmed the same, to believe in, or not believe in the testimony God gave of HIs Son.

John 3, is saying the same as Peter and John have already spoken in those verses above, if they do not believe in truth, which is the testimony God gave of HIs Son, they do not come to the light, their deeds are not reproved, they remain doing evil.

 

[gordon777]

Let's continue with 2 Peter 2:9-10

​

the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties.​

(2 Peter 2:9-10)​

​

Majestic King Jesus is Sovereign of the Kingdom of God, and Peter uses the words "angelic majesties" as an indicator of the Kingdom of God.

Since King Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), then free-willians revile His Majesty in the free-willian's self-will "I chose Jesus" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Every person has a will, but a person's will is either one of but not both of (1) a self-will against God in evil for the natural flesh person (2 Peter 2:9-10) or (2) a will in Christ doing God's good by the Holy Spirit for the Born of God (Romans 8:29, Philippians 2:13, John 3:3-8).

The self willed are not kept by the word/testimony/witness of God, see here for example of belief..


John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



But some turn away from this belief, showing again they have free will. ( false prophet teachers as told in 2 Peter 2, will disagree)



2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[donadams]

Yes, but that is not to be discussed in here. That is only for the Catholic forum.

Then please respond there? I have a thread with the same question
Thanks

 

[Kermos]

I gave many scriptures showing how we are to do what is testified, but here will be some more for context for your words.


It is not a problem to say we are chosen in 1 Peter 1, but we have to see what we are chosen for.


2 Thessalonians 2, tells we are chosen to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. This is being called, by the gospel, to obtain the glory of Christ, and by standing fast in the traditions taught us ( in the gospel)


1 Peter 1, says the very same, for us to be sober, and hope to the end for the grace to be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ, to be obedient children, to not be as our former ignorance in lusts, to believe that God is holy, so we be holy, to call on the Father who judges without respect of persons, according to every mans work, and then to pass our time here in fear.




2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.




1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:






Hope is faith, that is what we are saved by, through having faith in the rising of Christ from the dead.


1 peter again says how we have that hope, it is by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.


That is what God caused, and gave us faith, because of the testimony given, and we are to believe in the testimony or doubt it.


The testimony and words given are Spirit, if we believe in the testimony of God we make Him true, i not we call Him a liar.



John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



2 Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.






Peter spoke about faith, in the testimony/witness of God, or ignoring of it, when they do not spend their time here in fear. John confirmed the same, to believe in, or not believe in the testimony God gave of HIs Son.


John 3, is saying the same as Peter and John have already spoken in those verses above, if they do not believe in truth, which is the testimony God gave of HIs Son, they do not come to the light, their deeds are not reproved, they remain doing evil.

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29); therefore, faith/belief is born, maintained, and preserved by God in us Christians - "belief" and "faith" are exactly the same same thing - "believe" is the action/verb while "belief"/"faith" is the thing/noun - these two, "belief" and "believe", are representations of each other - "belief"/"faith" and "believe" are inseparable - God lovingly exclusively controls "belief"/"faith" and "believe" in us Christians (Ephesians 2:8-10, John 6:29). Praise be to my Lord and my God, Jesus Christ, for His awesome work!

With "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29) being firmly established by the Word of God, then every Scripture that you cite which mentions "faith"/"belief" and/or "believe" for a person is lovingly controlled by God in the person (2 Corinthians 5:14); therefore, none of those verses indicate free-will because God's will controls every Christian's will (Philippians 2:13) just as you were shown previously in "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).

With "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21), the Word of God proclaims that anyone who comes to Jesus is wrought in God, not wrought in man, but this fruit of the Spirit of coming to Christ is entirely controlled by the Sovereign God in Truth (John 14:6); therefore, none of those verses indicate free-will because God's will lovingly controls every every good deed/action/work/fruit of us Christian's will to God's good pleasure (Philippians 2:13), this includes practices the truth and includes every mention of hope and every mention of obedience, all being that the love of Christ controls us (2 Corinthians 5:14).

The prior post which God had me write to you remains fully Truth (John 14:6).

The Word of God pronounces exactly the purpose of Him choosing us Christians:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

 

[gordon777]

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29); therefore, faith/belief is born, maintained, and preserved by God in us Christians - "belief" and "faith" are exactly the same same thing - "believe" is the action/verb while "belief"/"faith" is the thing/noun - these two, "belief" and "believe", are representations of each other - "belief"/"faith" and "believe" are inseparable - God lovingly exclusively controls "belief"/"faith" and "believe" in us Christians (Ephesians 2:8-10, John 6:29). Praise be to my Lord and my God, Jesus Christ, for His awesome work!

With "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29) being firmly established by the Word of God, then every Scripture that you cite which mentions "faith"/"belief" and/or "believe" for a person is lovingly controlled by God in the person (2 Corinthians 5:14); therefore, none of those verses indicate free-will because God's will controls every Christian's will (Philippians 2:13) just as you were shown previously in "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21).

With "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:21), the Word of God proclaims that anyone who comes to Jesus is wrought in God, not wrought in man, but this fruit of the Spirit of coming to Christ is entirely controlled by the Sovereign God in Truth (John 14:6); therefore, none of those verses indicate free-will because God's will lovingly controls every every good deed/action/work/fruit of us Christian's will to God's good pleasure (Philippians 2:13), this includes practices the truth and includes every mention of hope and every mention of obedience, all being that the love of Christ controls us (2 Corinthians 5:14).

The prior post which God had me write to you remains fully Truth (John 14:6).

The Word of God pronounces exactly the purpose of Him choosing us Christians:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

All of that was for nothing, we believe unto righteousness in our heart, that Christ rose to be risen with Him, if we return to unrighteousness, we show we are not under control of another, it was because we did not believe in self control.

2 peter 2 makes it clear, it is deceivers that try to seduce people from believing in the righteousness of the Lord.




Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

 

[donadams]

Faith alone?

Mk 16:16

 

[gordon777]

Baptism can be by water, fire, the Holy Ghost, it is all by faith, without faith, water baptism is worthless, and with faith, the Holy Ghost is the seal of who believes.


2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[donadams]

Baptism can be by water, fire, the Holy Ghost, it is all by faith, without faith, water baptism is worthless, and with faith, the Holy Ghost is the seal of who believes.


2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Sealed by baptism!

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!


Christ instituted the holy church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation. (repent and believe the gospel) with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Matt 28:19

 

[donadams]

Only one baptism eph 4:5

Christian baptism is an outward sign of the inward action of grace, or merits of Christ’s passion blood and death applied to our souls!

We cannot see the inward action of grace purifying the soul, so God gave us the outward “sign” of water washing the body to indicate the inward action of grace and connected the two.

 

[gordon777]

Baptism is told clearly, not of water, that is not belief, baptism is believing that Christ is risen, to be saved, look it shows it over and over. ( baptism is belief Christ is risen, nothing else saves, you have zero scripture to show otherwise, as we are told only one way to be saved, to believe in our heart God raised Christ from the dead and we shall be saved.)

It gives a good conscience, and if we want to have water baptism afterwards, thats fine, but they already have the good conscience and are cleansed from an evil conscience. ( by the blood of Christ. Hearts are purified by faith, which is PURE WATER, NOT BY WATER AND NO FAITH.)



Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

[gordon777]

Only one baptism eph 4:5

Christian baptism is an outward sign of the inward action of grace, or merits of Christ’s passion blood and death applied to our souls!

We cannot see the inward action of grace purifying the soul, so God gave us the outward “sign” of water washing the body to indicate the inward action of grace and connected the two.

The outward that is false is water baptism, as pushed by you, and what is true is the Spirit, as the Spirit is truth, which they received and are witnessed as being seen outwardly.


Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

 

[gordon777]

But back on topic, we know whatever is pushed by a lying spirit, is for us to not hear all the warnings of scripture, and what truthful teacher would not tell us to fear God greatly, because of those many false teachers predicted, even antichrist spirits, and how we see this forum encourages debate, because it would be unable to show unrighteousness without it.

The devil is antichrist, we have to be anti devil, in return, the devil has a tongue, it has no ear, it can speak to deceive, it cant hear to learn how to stop deceiving.

Where are they who obey on the forum, to be slow to speak, slow to wrath, quick to hear ?


Proverbs 14:29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.

James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.




The doing of what we have heard from the scriptures. ( which shows whether we have belief or not.)



2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.


2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.