The Unchangeableness of God and the Will of God

[Josef]

Hey All,
Let's get back to the original topic. The title of the thread caught my attention.
I learned a long time ago that I cannot describe the mind of God. How can finite describe infinite? No matter what I say, I cannot convey that which I cannot understand.
The Bible contains what we need to know about His mind.. The earth, moon, sun, and stars show us His handiwork. That He knows the number of hairs on my head tells me His interest in me. (I wonder if He knows where the ones I lost went.) That He sent Christ to die in my place reveals His love for me.

Does God have free will?
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

The basis of a free will is the ability to change one's mind. Does God charge His mind? For example, can God love me and then not love me? Can God not love me, then love me. (Thank God that's a big NO on both questions.)

1 Samuel 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
2 Timothy 2:12-13 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

God loves me and this does not change. When all else fails in life, I can still rest assured that God loves me. Thank you God.

Does man have free will?
Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

What was the cause of Adam and Eve's eating the forbidden fruit? Did God cause it by planting the tree? (hint: It was the act and not the fruit that caused the sin.) Did the serpent cause it through temptation? Or did Eve allow herself to consume the fruit because it looked good (lust of the eyes), tasted good (the lust of the flesh), and would make her more than she was (the pride of life). Here is what John said:

1 John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

God allows sin but cannot cause sin.
Satan promotes, encourages, and tempts us to sin. But he does not commit our sin.
Adam and Eve commited the sin due their lusts and desires .
If Adam and Eve commit sin, something that God cannot do, then God cannot be the cause. Did he allow it? All day long yes.
If Adam and Eve commit sin, something God cannot do, but Satan can do, is Satan then the cause? No. Satan cannot sin in my place. He can influence my decision. We like to blame Satan for our downfalls because we don't want to admit the truth.
If Adam and Eve commit sin, something God cannot do, something Satan can do but not in place of us, who is left?
Adam and eve committed sin of their own will.

They were saved because of God's will. Because the will of God abided forever.

Genesis 3:15, 21 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Man's will is the only way, through which, one can sin.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[gordon777]

Yes it is antichrist to think that God does not change, and they promote being without fear of God.

We are told how the Lord once saved, then destroyed, now get with the programme.


Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

 

[donadams]

Baptism is told clearly, not of water, that is not belief, baptism is believing that Christ is risen, to be saved, look it shows it over and over. ( baptism is belief Christ is risen, nothing else saves, you have zero scripture to show otherwise, as we are told only one way to be saved, to believe in our heart God raised Christ from the dead and we shall be saved.)

It gives a good conscience, and if we want to have water baptism afterwards, thats fine, but they already have the good conscience and are cleansed from an evil conscience. ( by the blood of Christ. Hearts are purified by faith, which is PURE WATER, NOT BY WATER AND NO FAITH.)



Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Please explain Jn 3:22

 

[donadams]

Did they go to Jerusalem preach the fundamentalist tradition? The sinners prayer? “Accept Christ as your personal lord and savior? Or did they go to the river (water water everywhere) and baptized!

 

[donadams]

The outward that is false is water baptism, as pushed by you, and what is true is the Spirit, as the Spirit is truth, which they received and are witnessed as being seen outwardly.


Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

What happens on the mission field is extraordinary and not always the ordinary Christian practice, for two thousand years (until fundamentalists) the constant ordinary teaching and practice of the one true church is baptism as prophetically shown in ez 36:25-27

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

 

[donadams]

Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Ministered by the apostolic church!

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

Lk 8
The parable of the sower, all four had faith are they all not saved?


Lk 23:39 did not the bad thief say; save us? “Faith alone”?

Lk 18:14
Why did the publican not mention Jesus Christ or make a profession of belief, but prayer and virtue!

Why must we also suffer?
Faith alone not enough”?

 

[Kermos]

The self willed are not kept by the word/testimony/witness of God, see here for example of belief..


John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



But some turn away from this belief, showing again they have free will. ( false prophet teachers as told in 2 Peter 2, will disagree)



2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

It is antichrist to say otherwise than the above numerated list of the Word of God because the Word of God clearly declares man does not have free-will choosing ability towards God.

No Scripture states man has a free-will.

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

 

[gordon777]

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

Faith alone saves us, not the faith of removing mountains, but the faith of belief that Christ is risen from the dead.

That is why charity believes all things.

Do you need illumination from me on everything ?

That is also why FAITH WORKS BY LOVE.


John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Corinthians 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.



Speaking of faith working by love, that is the belief in the love of Christ to lay HIs life down for us, to justify those who believe in Jesus, which is the law of faith, and it is concluded the man is justified without other deeds, as belief in love is the fulfilling of the law ( of Christ.) as love works no ill to your neighbour. ( which is faith working through love.)




Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[gordon777]

Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Ministered by the apostolic church!

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

Lk 8
The parable of the sower, all four had faith are they all not saved?


Lk 23:39 did not the bad thief say; save us? “Faith alone”?

Lk 18:14
Why did the publican not mention Jesus Christ or make a profession of belief, but prayer and virtue!

Why must we also suffer?
Faith alone not enough”?

Faith is the baptism that saves, believing that Christ is risen.


The proof is simple, the believers received the Spirit justified by faith in Jesus Christ, and Apostle Paul received the Spirt believing in Jesus Christ, and all received the Spirit, NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by THE HEARING OF FAITH....


Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[gordon777]

The gracious Benefactor of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

It is antichrist to say otherwise than the above numerated list of the Word of God because the Word of God clearly declares man does not have free-will choosing ability towards God.

No Scripture states man has a free-will.

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

All scripture shows man has free will, to freely give or to not give, Gods loves the cheerful giver. ( the heart/will is free, we are set free from bondage, and of the deceivers too, to hear the warnings and to make sure we do not turn back to folly/vanity.)

Psalm 85:8 I will hear what God the Lord will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.



Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

 

[donadams]

Faith alone saves us, not the faith of removing mountains, but the faith of belief that Christ is risen from the dead.

That is why charity believes all things.

Do you need illumination from me on everything ?

That is also why FAITH WORKS BY LOVE.


John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Corinthians 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.



Speaking of faith working by love, that is the belief in the love of Christ to lay HIs life down for us, to justify those who believe in Jesus, which is the law of faith, and it is concluded the man is justified without other deeds, as belief in love is the fulfilling of the law ( of Christ.) as love works no ill to your neighbour. ( which is faith working through love.)




Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Works gospel?

 

[Kermos]

All scripture shows man has free will, to freely give or to not give, Gods loves the cheerful giver. ( the heart/will is free, we are set free from bondage, and of the deceivers too, to hear the warnings and to make sure we do not turn back to folly/vanity.)


Psalm 85:8 I will hear what God the Lord will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.




Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.


2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.


Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?


Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.



2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Your first paragraph is an outright lie, for example, this Scripture "Abram, that is Abraham" (1 Chronicles 1:27) is absent of free-will.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this saying of the Christ of us Christians,
“you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

No Scripture states man has a free-will to choose Jesus, and these quotes of the Word of God reveals your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) deceptive use of Scripture, and "free-will" absent from every Scripture you mentioned.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this saying of the Christ of us Christians, “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this word from the Apostle Paul, “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

The Word of God in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this saying of the Christ of us Christians, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this writing of Paul, “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this writing of the Apostle Peter, “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

Clearly, Lord Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this saying of the Christ of us Christians, “he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (John 3:21), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this writing of Paul, “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

Clearly, Lord Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this saying of the Christ of us Christians, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this writing of Peter, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

God is awesome for Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this saying of the Christ of us Christians, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this saying of the Apostles and Elders, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

All glory and honor to Jesus Christ whose words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this saying of the Christ of us Christians, “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this writing of the Apostle John, “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

In effect, your thoughts there call a lie this writing of John, “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”), and no Christian calls the Word of God a lie.

So, clearly, the Word of God in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God.

It is antichrist to call the Word of God a lie because the Word of God clearly declares man does not have free-will choosing ability towards God.

And here we have the Truth (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us believers (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

 

[gordon777]

A lot of talk there and all complete lies.


If a person has no free will, they cant have belief in God accredited as righteousness, God gave preaching to save us, some believe and some turn from the faith, it is completely free will.

Your lies are blown away, by just one chapter.



Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

[Kermos]

Hey All,
Let's get back to the original topic. The title of the thread caught my attention.
I learned a long time ago that I cannot describe the mind of God. How can finite describe infinite? No matter what I say, I cannot convey that which I cannot understand.
The Bible contains what we need to know about His mind.. The earth, moon, sun, and stars show us His handiwork. That He knows the number of hairs on my head tells me His interest in me. (I wonder if He knows where the ones I lost went.) That He sent Christ to die in my place reveals His love for me.

Does God have free will?
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

The basis of a free will is the ability to change one's mind. Does God charge His mind? For example, can God love me and then not love me? Can God not love me, then love me. (Thank God that's a big NO on both questions.)

1 Samuel 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
2 Timothy 2:12-13 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

God loves me and this does not change. When all else fails in life, I can still rest assured that God loves me. Thank you God.

Does man have free will?
Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

What was the cause of Adam and Eve's eating the forbidden fruit? Did God cause it by planting the tree? (hint: It was the act and not the fruit that caused the sin.) Did the serpent cause it through temptation? Or did Eve allow herself to consume the fruit because it looked good (lust of the eyes), tasted good (the lust of the flesh), and would make her more than she was (the pride of life). Here is what John said:

1 John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

God allows sin but cannot cause sin.
Satan promotes, encourages, and tempts us to sin. But he does not commit our sin.
Adam and Eve commited the sin due their lusts and desires .
If Adam and Eve commit sin, something that God cannot do, then God cannot be the cause. Did he allow it? All day long yes.
If Adam and Eve commit sin, something God cannot do, but Satan can do, is Satan then the cause? No. Satan cannot sin in my place. He can influence my decision. We like to blame Satan for our downfalls because we don't want to admit the truth.
If Adam and Eve commit sin, something God cannot do, something Satan can do but not in place of us, who is left?
Adam and eve committed sin of their own will.

They were saved because of God's will. Because the will of God abided forever.

Genesis 3:15, 21 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Man's will is the only way, through which, one can sin.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

I appreciate that you wrote "Let's get back to the original topic", but you also wrote "The basis of a free will is the ability to change one's mind". Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

Let's examine the free-willian dearly held faith that "my free-will is uncontrolled by God" as compared to linguistics, logic, and Scripture in Truth (John 14:6).
Free-willians abstract (compartmentalize) at two different levels when free-willians think "my free-will is uncontrolled by God".

God is a Being.

You are a being.

A "will" is not a being.

A "will" is part of a being, and a "will" does not exist without a being.

Let's look at free-willian's dearly held belief that "my free-will is uncontrolled by God" from a related perspective, "this being's free-will is uncontrolled by that Being".

Free-willian foundation is the relationship that a "will" is "free" from a "being", and the relationship succeeds logically and linguistically only by including that a "will" is "free" from every "being"; therefore, that "will" must be free from the "Being" (God) as well as that "will" free from the "being" (the free-willian) as well as that "will" free from every other "being", yet a "will" must be part of a "being" resulting in a controlling relationship between the "being" and the being's "will", so the concept of a "will" free from a "being" is illogical.

The free-willian's level of abstraction fails because free-willians have grouped "will" at the same level as the group of "beings", so free-willians are comparing unrelated things, that is, a "will" and a "being"; in other words, free-willian's faulty premise results in a sinfully false conclusion.

The word "free" means "a something detached from an other something", but free-willians redefine "free" to mean "a something detached from that something's self"; therefore, free-willian's linguistics are illegal.

No Scripture states that God imparted man a free-will, in fact, the single occurrence of free-will in the New Testament is where the Apostle Paul refers to free-will as illusory (Philemon 1:14).

Now, a free-willian's "will" is not free from all beings because the free-willian's "will" is part of himself or herself. See the word "self" in the words "himself" and "herself", and "self" is key because by definition free-willians have a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) per the free-willian's own proclamation that the free-willian "will" is uncontrolled by God, and, here, in Scripture, we find that free-willians are out of accord with Apostolic testimony.

In Truth (John 14:6), we Christian's have a "will" controlled by the Christ of us Christians for it is written "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

I also noticed that you wrote "Adam and eve committed sin of their own will", and I noticed that you wrote "own will" instead of "own free will", but, alas, your last quotation is the subject for another post, so please keep your eyes peeled.

 

[Kermos]

Hey All,
Let's get back to the original topic. The title of the thread caught my attention.
I learned a long time ago that I cannot describe the mind of God. How can finite describe infinite? No matter what I say, I cannot convey that which I cannot understand.
The Bible contains what we need to know about His mind.. The earth, moon, sun, and stars show us His handiwork. That He knows the number of hairs on my head tells me His interest in me. (I wonder if He knows where the ones I lost went.) That He sent Christ to die in my place reveals His love for me.

Does God have free will?
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

The basis of a free will is the ability to change one's mind. Does God charge His mind? For example, can God love me and then not love me? Can God not love me, then love me. (Thank God that's a big NO on both questions.)

1 Samuel 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
2 Timothy 2:12-13 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

God loves me and this does not change. When all else fails in life, I can still rest assured that God loves me. Thank you God.

Does man have free will?
Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

What was the cause of Adam and Eve's eating the forbidden fruit? Did God cause it by planting the tree? (hint: It was the act and not the fruit that caused the sin.) Did the serpent cause it through temptation? Or did Eve allow herself to consume the fruit because it looked good (lust of the eyes), tasted good (the lust of the flesh), and would make her more than she was (the pride of life). Here is what John said:

1 John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

God allows sin but cannot cause sin.
Satan promotes, encourages, and tempts us to sin. But he does not commit our sin.
Adam and Eve commited the sin due their lusts and desires .
If Adam and Eve commit sin, something that God cannot do, then God cannot be the cause. Did he allow it? All day long yes.
If Adam and Eve commit sin, something God cannot do, but Satan can do, is Satan then the cause? No. Satan cannot sin in my place. He can influence my decision. We like to blame Satan for our downfalls because we don't want to admit the truth.
If Adam and Eve commit sin, something God cannot do, something Satan can do but not in place of us, who is left?
Adam and eve committed sin of their own will.

They were saved because of God's will. Because the will of God abided forever.

Genesis 3:15, 21 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Man's will is the only way, through which, one can sin.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

As mentioned previously, I noticed that you wrote "Adam and eve committed sin of their own will", and I noticed that you wrote "own will" instead of "own free will".

There is a causative factor for Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the Word of God specifically identified the causative factor of Adam eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and, as we shall momentarily see, the eating of the tree forbidden as food was not Adam's "will" as the causative factor; moreover, Adam eating of the tree forbidden as food was movement away from God for Adam, so Adam is not an example of a person free-will choosing towards God.

God Declares The Cause And Effect For Adam Eating Of The Forbidden Tree​

After Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), to Adam, God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19)

The word "because" inherently indicates cause in (Genesis 3:17), and the word "because" is the first word that God said to Adam in Genesis 3:17-19.

God declares the cause as being that Adam listened to the voice of his wife.

God declares the effect as being that the ground would be cursed because of Adam as well as to dust Adam would return.

God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in Genesis 3:17.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Greetings Kermos. Interesting take on the subject. Adam blamed Eve as well.

Genesis 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Look at the end of the verse, "I did eat." Eve didn't force Adam to eat the fruit. He knew what it was. He was with her when she ate it. We know this because of verse 6.

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

See what it says, " . . . Her husband with her. "
Yes Adam blames Eve for his sin. But remember, he had knowledge of good and evil at the point he makes his excuse to God. Is Adam being completely honest? Eve handed him the fruit. If you are a diabetic, and I give you candy you know you cannot eat. Where does my responsibility end and your's begin if you eat the candy? I am not forcing it down your throat. And you know you are not supposed to eat candy. You could say no. If you eat it, did I make you? Could you say that and be entirely honest? No.

Adam ate for the same reason Eve did. The fruit good for food, pleasing to the eye, and desired to make one wise. Adam's sin is his own. If you want to say he was tempted, sure OK. But he did the eating.

I heard an interesting take on this. Now it is not Scriptural, and just speculation. I cannot emphasize that enough. But the thought goes that Adam ate the fruit out of his love for Eve. He didn't want to be alone again. Again not Scriptural, just an interesting speculation.
Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz

 

[gordon777]

Adam like Israel had no faith, we have to have faith or also fail after these same examples.

From the start the scriptures are faith how all was created by faith, how Adam did not believe, and Israel did not believe, how Christ is our faith, how the Apostles followed in faith, and we follow all examples of faith, not those words who speak against the faith, or do as those who did against the faith. ( thats why I can provide the whole of the scriptures as proof against those who deny any thing.)




Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[donadams]

Freedom is the ability to choose the good or to do what you ought to do
License is the ability to choose evil

There can be no sin and consequences of sin without free will, you must know it is wrong and still choose to do it or there is no sin!
So if you insist on no such thing as free will then there can be no such thing as sin!!!

Thanks

 

[Kermos]

Adam like Israel had no faith, we have to have faith or also fail after these same examples.

From the start the scriptures are faith how all was created by faith, how Adam did not believe, and Israel did not believe, how Christ is our faith, how the Apostles followed in faith, and we follow all examples of faith, not those words who speak against the faith, or do as those who did against the faith. ( thats why I can provide the whole of the scriptures as proof against those who deny any thing.)




Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So, then Adam is no example of man being imparted free-will ability to choose God, for example, Adam did the deed of listening to Eve - not choosing - but he listened to his wife per the Word of God.

God Declares The Cause And Effect For Adam Eating Of The Forbidden Tree​

After Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6), to Adam, God said "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19)

The word "because" inherently indicates cause in (Genesis 3:17), and the word "because" is the first word that God said to Adam in Genesis 3:17-19.

God declares the cause as being that Adam listened to the voice of his wife.

God declares the effect as being that the ground would be cursed because of Adam as well as to dust Adam would return.

God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in Genesis 3:17.

 

[Kermos]

Yes it is antichrist to think that God does not change, and they promote being without fear of God.

We are told how the Lord once saved, then destroyed, now get with the programme.


Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

"Yes it is antichrist to think that God does not change" (the word of gordon777).

"I, YHWH, do not change" (The Word of God, Malachi 3:6).

In effect, you declared the Word of God is antichrist.

No passage you cite states that God changes, for example, Jude 1:5 shows the steadfastness of God because out of all the people saved from Egypt, the unbelievers specifically were destroyed - God distinguished that not every last single one the people were destroyed. You preach falsehood.

In 2 Peter 2:3-6, the self-willed people are condemned by God. Self-willed people includes free-willian philosophers.