The Unpardonable Sin

[netchaplain]

True worship is drawn out by the object of worship. Can you find any fault with this?

You would need to explain further what you mean.

 

[childeye]

You would need to explain further what you mean.

What I mean, is that the difference between true worship and patronizing, lip service, butt-kissing, is that the object of worship is truly worthy of, and deserving of, the praise and worship. Consequently, true praise and worship is only sincere, when attributed to the glory of the object of worship, and therefore it is not voluntary, but is actually drawn out by the object of worship. It's the same with true thankfulness, it is drawn out by the person being thanked, for what the person has done or given, that is sincerely deserving of thanks. Such true thankfulness also is not voluntary. Matthew 21:16. Same with any true repentance. One must know what they are truly sorry for, to truly repent.

 

[netchaplain]

What I mean, is that the difference between true worship and patronizing, lip service, butt-kissing, is that the object of worship is truly worthy of, and deserving of, the praise and worship. Consequently, true praise and worship is only sincere, when attributed to the glory of the object of worship, and therefore it is not voluntary, but is actually drawn out by the object of worship. It's the same with true thankfulness, it is drawn out by the person being thanked, for what the person has done or given, that is sincerely deserving of thanks. Such true thankfulness also is not voluntary. Matthew 21:16. Same with any true repentance. One must know what they are truly sorry for, to truly repent.

I will need to think more on what you're trying to explain. God's blessings to you!

 

[mutzrein]

Netchaplain, I'm interested to hear your thoughts since the last post. And also a question regarding your beliefs. Are you saying that the unpardonable sin is a 'one-time-only' confession of the mouth / heart that can never be revoked?

 

[Webb]

The unpardonable sin is clearly defined in Mark 3.
God bless,
w
Rom.16:16
TO BE DEEP IN SCIPTUE IS TO CEASE BEING CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT OR JEW - WEBB

 

[netchaplain]

Netchaplain, I'm interested to hear your thoughts since the last post. And also a question regarding your beliefs. Are you saying that the unpardonable sin is a 'one-time-only' confession of the mouth / heart that can never be revoked?

Hi Mutzrein - I believe so, which is just as Christ declared it. From what I've learned I believe un-forgiveness is more related to the concept that the offender is too hardened against the Spirit of God when revealing such a depth of dislike, resulting in impenitence and unbelief. Similar to having "no more sacrifice for sins" (Heb 10:26).

Thanks for your reply and God bless!

 

[Webb]

Mark 3:30.
God bless,
W
Rom.16:16
TO BE DEEP IN SCRIPTURE IS TO CEASE BEING CATHOLIC, PROTESTAT OR JEW--WEBB

 

[netchaplain]

Hi Webb - That's a good passage concerning the subject because it clearly describes that attributing the Spirit of God as evil and related to Satan (Beelzebub--prince of the evil spirits--v 22) is where the blasphemy lies. I saw you post it earlier and thanks for your input.

God's blessings to your Family!

 

[childeye]

I will need to think more on what you're trying to explain. God's blessings to you!

Just a reminder that I'm still looking forward to your response.

 

[netchaplain]

Just a reminder that I'm still looking forward to your response.

HI CE - Let's begin with what you mean by "voluntary," do you mean praise to God initiated in us by Him and not self?

 

[childeye]

HI CE - Let's begin with what you mean by "voluntary," do you mean praise to God initiated in us by Him and not self?

Yes. For example, the way I am moved to kneel before the cross of Christ. Of course I move my body, but the Lamb moves my heart.

 

[netchaplain]

Yes. For example, the way I am moved to kneel before the cross of Christ. Of course I move my body, but the Lamb moves my heart.

I like the point you made that worship, nor anything we do for God starts with the believer but with Him per Phl. 2:13, if that's what you mean. This is from rebirth until departure.

 

[childeye]

I like the point you made that worship, nor anything we do for God starts with the believer but with Him per Phl. 2:13, if that's what you mean. This is from rebirth until departure.

Philippians 2:13 does speak to what I mean. And since I believe that the revelation of the Personal Character of God would move any created being, why is it that some count the Christ as Satanic? I know that those forgiven much, love much, while those forgiven little, love little.

My point is that I find it hard to believe that anyone would knowingly commit this sin that is unpardonable. It seems to me, that anyone that would count what is good as evil, must be deceived in some form of ignorance, which I believe God allows, for the purpose that no flesh should glory.

 

[netchaplain]

Philippians 2:13 does speak to what I mean. And since I believe that the revelation of the Personal Character of God would move any created being, why is it that some count the Christ as Satanic? I know that those forgiven much, love much, while those forgiven little, love little.

My point is that I find it hard to believe that anyone would knowingly commit this sin that is unpardonable. It seems to me, that anyone that would count what is good as evil, must be deceived in some form of ignorance, which I believe God allows, for the purpose that no flesh should glory.

The Pharisees and Sadducees were so hardened against Christ that their continuous goal was to lesson His glory, thereby knowing they were against God, which was not a concern for them either, for they ever were at the task of magnifying their glory above God's will and desire.

They always sought signs (1Cor 1:22) which was against God's desire for them to learn faith. The Lord Jesus said, "An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign." (Mat 12:39).

The orthodox Jew would still be offering burnt sacrifices today, if they had a Temple.
"Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law" (Heb 10:8).

God never desired such type of worship (animal sacrifices) but it was to show them the horror of the requirements for sin, which those who practiced during the Law did not like either, because of the often killing and bleeding and dismemberment of the high volume of animals.

 

[childeye]

The Pharisees and Sadducees were so hardened against Christ that their continuous goal was to lesson His glory, thereby knowing they were against God, which was not a concern for them either, for they ever were at the task of magnifying their glory above God's will and desire.

They always sought signs (1Cor 1:22) which was against God's desire for them to learn faith. The Lord Jesus said, "An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign." (Mat 12:39).

The orthodox Jew would still be offering burnt sacrifices today, if they had a Temple.
"Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law" (Heb 10:8).

God never desired such type of worship (animal sacrifices) but it was to show them the horror of the requirements for sin, which those who practiced during the Law did not like either, because of the often killing and bleeding and dismemberment of the high volume of animals.

It is true that an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign. This is with the understanding that faith in all purity of conscience, has been compromised if proof of Holiness is required. hence we see the term 'adulterous' used to describe an evil generation.

True worship is drawn out by the object of worship. It's the same as saying, if I had no Love, I would be unable to even care that I had no Love. I reason upon this so as to worship God in Truth, as that Spirit that is the Light of mankind, as pertains to Life, wisdom and wellbeing. And I attribute even that ability to worship Him, to Him.

Consequently, when I see this adulterous generation spoken of, I don't think it is wise to count myself out, so that Grace can be acknowledged.

 

[netchaplain]

if I had no Love, I would be unable to even care that I had no Love

Amen, those who care not to give love will also not receive it.

when I see this adulterous generation spoken of, I don't think it is wise to count myself out, so that Grace can be acknowledged.

I believe I understand your point, for we do retain the "old man" (sinful nature). Though it is in us, we are not in it (Rom 8:9), e.g. it is not dominant (Rom 6:12, 14) in our life, as the Spirit keeps it from doing so (Gal 5:7). Thus a truly "wicked" person is an unbeliever. Concerning being "adulterous," this is in reference only to the Jewish nation, because they are the only chosen people at the time Christ proclaimed this evil, and they left God for other god's (adultery), but some always remained (Rom 9:27; 11:4, 5).

 

[childeye]

Amen, those who care not to give love will also not receive it.

I believe I understand your point, for we do retain the "old man" (sinful nature). Though it is in us, we are not in it (Rom 8:9), e.g. it is not dominant (Rom 6:12, 14) in our life, as the Spirit keeps it from doing so (Gal 5:7). Thus a truly "wicked" person is an unbeliever. Concerning being "adulterous," this is in reference only to the Jewish nation, because they are the only chosen people at the time Christ proclaimed this evil, and they left God for other god's (adultery), but some always remained (Rom 9:27; 11:4, 5).

God be praised that you are so well balanced in your scriptural references, and also accommodating with all forthrightness, in your understanding of my thoughts. God's blessings always to you and yours, netchaplain.

 

[netchaplain]

God be praised that you are so well balanced in your scriptural references, and also accommodating with all forthrightness, in your understanding of my thoughts. God's blessings always to you and yours, netchaplain.

Sorry for the delayed reply, I didn't get a notice like usual. It's very wise to express Scriptural significance as you have, and thanks for the compliment.

Blessed Be God

 

[cgaviria]

The preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom by John the Baptist and the Messiah laid upon the chosen nation, Israel, the demand for a decision. This demand was openly present in all the early preaching of the Kingdom Gospel. The imperatives were “repent,” “believe,” “receive,” “confess,” and “follow.” No room was left for neutrality: those who heard the message must either be for the Messiah King or against Him (Matt 12:30).

It was the religious leaders of Israel who rejected Jesus’ Messiahship, and they would ultimately lead the nation into the same rejection. The basis of the rejection was demon possession, for the leaders claimed that the source of the Messiah’s power came from “the prince of demons” (12:24).

Rejecting Jesus as the Messiah on the basis of His being demon possessed led to His charge that the leadership of Israel, and by extension the entire nation, was now guilty of the “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (12:31).

Dr. Alva McClain gives a seven-point elaboration of the in his “The Greatness of the Kingdom”: First, the blasphemy committed was definitely related to the Kingdom of God, for that is the concept running through the context. Second, the blasphemy committed involved a question regarding the regal credentials of Christ. Rejecting Him as the Messiah also meant rejecting Him as King, and, therefore, a rejection of the Kingdom offer.

Third, this specific sin was declared a blasphemy against the Spirit of God. Since the miracles of Jesus were by the power of the Holy Spirit and through these miracles the Holy Spirit gave testimony to the Messiahship of Jesus, to ascribe these miracles as resulting from the power of Satan was to speak against the Holy Spirit.

Fourth, this was declared to be an unpardonable sin (12:32). Since God the Father sent the Messiah to be the Savior of men, in the Messiah all sin can be forgiven without limitation. Therefore, the sinful resistance of the Holy Spirit, Who testifies as to Jesus’ Messiahship, puts the rejecter outside the Messiah. Since it is morally impossible for God to forgive sin outside Christ, this rendered the sin unpardonable.

Fifth, the specific ones involved in this sin against the Holy Spirit were the religious leaders of Israel. Sixth, the responsibility for this sin is not limited to the leaders, it also extended to the whole nation of Israel, for they ultimately followed their leaders in the rejection. This corporate responsibility of the people of Israel is clear from the several uses of the term “generation” in the same context (12:39-45).

By the same token, the responsibility for the unpardonable sin is limited to the Jewish generation of Jesus’ day and is not extended to subsequent Jewish generations. Seventh, the specific penalty for this sin was a national judgment, and immediate judgement within the history of that particular generation. For that generation it was the judgment of A.D. 70 when within the time span of a single generation, judgment fell in the destruction of Jerusalem and the world-wide dispersion of the nation.

Nevertheless, while an entire generation has lost its historical opportunity, and with dire results (other than Spirit blasphemy—NC) for many succeeding generations, the nation of Israel itself could not irrecoverably lose those ancient rights (Kingdom promises to subsequent Jews outside the blasphemy sin—NC) which had been guaranteed by the God of Israel.
- Unknown

This isn't true. The blasphemy against holy spirit is committing any sin against holy spirit himself. This is done with you sin against him in a person that truly has holy spirit. This is evidenced with Ananias and Sapphira lying to holy spirit inside Peter. And what happened? They died. When you are charged with an eonial sin, and are not forgiven, you die immediately, since any chance for forgiveness has been taken away, so you therefore die instantly, as you have no further purpose to be alive to God, since being alive in this time means there is always chance for forgiveness.

This holy spirit is the same type of holy spirit that lead the Hebrews into the promised land, that did not forgive any sins either,

Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him. (Exodus 21:20-21 [ESV])

And then in Isaiah we read,

In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them; in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them. (Isaiah 63:9-10 [ESV])

This angel was a holy spirit that lead them, and was a type of holy spirit that now guides believers, but from within. Yet that type of holy spirit, did not forgive sins just as the type of holy spirit that now resides within a believer.

 

[netchaplain]

The blasphemy against holy spirit is committing any sin against holy spirit himself.

I believe I understand why you've concluded what you have, but I suppose that would depend on one's interpretation. I believe the offense is in a direct relation to the Spirit of God Himself (Mat 3:29, 30). The Pharisees related God's Spirit to "Beelzebub the prince of the devils" (Mat 12:24), thus resulting in blasphemy in vs 31, 32.