The Westminster Confession of Faith Blasphemy

[PeterJens]

It makes me smile a bit.
Summarise your life, in simple words. A blessing.

Simply explain why general relativity and gravity do not fit with quantum physics?

If the concept itself is complex and difficult to define or quantify its boundaries and contents,
dealing with the interaction between two such concepts is impossible, literally.

I listened to a resolution called the MOND theory, about how gravity at long distances might not decay.
But then you go through the exceptions and problems.

Another point I realised is the feeling of certainty we get when we think and feel we have got it right.
Ahhhh. And then we wake up and we got it very wrong.

I trust Jesus. He is the light. I wish to walk in His light.
Now that seems to work and is simple on a level I can handle and has blessed my life since a child.
So I just say Amen, and Hallelujah, and God bless you

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

I'm concerned with what the Bible states: "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective" (James 5:16 NIV).

This verse refutes the RCC position.

Oz

I agree.
But what about john 20:23?

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

How then do you interpret 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV)? "What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.

Blessings,
Oz

This is also for SolaScriptura

1. I'm an old fashioned girl. Love it or leave it.
2. The church was not wrong for 2,000 years.
3. It is not permitted that a woman teach a man.

 

[SolaScriptura]

This is also for SolaScriptura

1. I'm an old fashioned girl. Love it or leave it.
2. The church was not wrong for 2,000 years.
3. It is not permitted that a woman teach a man.

I responded to "I believe female preachers are heretical" in # 190. NOT what you say in point 3. there is a HUGE difference!

 

[GodsGrace]

I responded to "I believe female preachers are heretical" in # 190. NOT what you say in point 3. there is a HUGE difference!

Hi SS
I guess we're back to what heretical means.
I believe the early church did not have female pastors/priests.

I believe this is a modern fandangled idea.
What do you think?

 

[SolaScriptura]

Hi SS
I guess we're back to what heretical means.
I believe the early church did not have female pastors/priests.

I believe this is a modern fandangled idea.
What do you think?

As I said in # 190 that you said women preachers are heretical. You did not mention anything about women pastors.

Preaching can be understood as evangelization , a woman standing in the market place telling people about salvation in Jesus Christ. Nothing heretical about this!

Women pastors/teaching men are wrong and heretical

Language must be precise

 

[GodsGrace]

As I said in # 190 that you said women preachers are heretical. You did not mention anything about women pastors.

Preaching can be understood as evangelicalism, a woman standing in the market place telling people about salvation in Jesus Christ. Nothing heretical about this!

Women pastors/teaching men are wrong and heretical

Language must be precise

You're 100% correct.

I didn't mean preachers...I also do that all the time.

Thanks for correcting...

 

[OzSpen]

I agree.
But what about john 20:23?

John 20:23 (NIV) states: "If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Could this refer to sins against a person and that person, if forgiveness is sought, is obliged to grant forgiveness? I can't see it in a Father confessor role!

Oz

 

[SolaScriptura]

Interesting question. Never thought of this idea from this perspective.
The world we see in creation is not defined and exact, it is an explosion of interactions of all sorts, some work and some fail. We use reductionist language like plan or ordain, as closed words, like they summarise control or order.

Yes there are rules, boundaries, limitations, but within this infinite creativity.
Victorian england and the world of absolutes believed you could define everything.
Relativity and quantum physics showed this is only part of a bigger picture that is way more fluid.

God planned Jesus and His response. He ordained judgement and a final reconning.
I cannot say more than this about God, because I am a mere mortal, and these are things beyond my pay grade.
After many years of following the 4 spiritual laws in evangelism etc. you begin to realise things are so much bigger and involved than this.

We are content in Christ, in the now, and in His hands our future.
The world wants security in wealth, in knowing blessing or the right thing to do at the right time, through horoscopes, or mediums or signs in the heavens. So my friend, there are no simple answers, there is ultimately knowing Jesus and following or darkness.

God bless you

after writing all of this, you say nothing! The simple answer to my own question, is 100% IMPOSSIBLE!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

John 20:23 (NIV) states: "If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Could this refer to sins against a person and that person, if forgiveness is sought, is obliged to grant forgiveness? I can't see it in a Father confessor role!

Oz

John 20:23 has always bothered me a little.
Jesus also told the Apostles they would be able to heal and carry on His ministry - which they did.
Matthew 10:1

In John Jesus breathes the Holy Spirit on them and it would seem to mean MORE than just forgiving each other's sins,
which He had already taught them to do.

Also, Jesus saying they could NOT forgive sins flies in the face of His teaching that we are to forgive those that sin against us.
Matthew 6:15

So, where does that leave us?

If we study some church history, which would include confession, we do come up with an answer, at least I THINK I did.
We need to think about this from both the Protestant and Catholic position.

What would you answer?

 

[OzSpen]

John 20:23 has always bothered me a little.
Jesus also told the Apostles they would be able to heal and carry on His ministry - which they did.
Matthew 10:1

In John Jesus breathes the Holy Spirit on them and it would seem to mean MORE than just forgiving each other's sins,
which He had already taught them to do.

Also, Jesus saying they could NOT forgive sins flies in the face of His teaching that we are to forgive those that sin against us.
Matthew 6:15

So, where does that leave us?

If we study some church history, which would include confession, we do come up with an answer, at least I THINK I did.
We need to think about this from both the Protestant and Catholic position.

What would you answer?

wondering,

My answer, after praying and seeking God, would be that under grace I have abundant resources to forgive 70 times 7: "21 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven [or seventy seven times]" (Matt 18:21-22 RSV).

This is some of what makes the difference between those living a secular vs Christian worldview. However, I must add that after one has been hurt deeply it is difficult to move on. I have personal experience of such.

Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

My answer, after praying and seeking God, would be that under grace I have abundant resources to forgive 70 times 7: "21 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven [or seventy seven times]" (Matt 18:21-22 RSV).

This is some of what makes the difference between those living a secular vs Christian worldview. However, I must add that after one has been hurt deeply it is difficult to move on. I have personal experience of such.

Oz

I know Oz.
And other humans do hurt us deeply.
But we are strong in God....and even though we might still feel the hurt...
it is necessary that we forgive all and everyone in our heart...no matter how long it takes.
Everything Jesus taught, He taught for OUR benefit, and for the benefit of the Kingdom, of which we are part.

 

[OzSpen]

I know Oz.
And other humans do hurt us deeply.
But we are strong in God....and even though we might still feel the hurt...
it is necessary that we forgive all and everyone in our heart...no matter how long it takes.
Everything Jesus taught, He taught for OUR benefit, and for the benefit of the Kingdom, of which we are part.

wondering,

It has taken me 5 years to get to this point. Only recently, I wrote an article: Calling for Christians to care

After I shared this link on my Facebook page, one Christian who I know accused me of exposing "my dirty linen" and I shouldn't do it. That was a hurtful comment when he could have offered compassion with mercy.

Oz

 

[jasonc]

wondering,

It has taken me 5 years to get to this point. Only recently, I wrote an article: Calling for Christians to care

After I shared this link on my Facebook page, one Christian who I know accused me of exposing "my dirty linen" and I shouldn't do it. That was a hurtful comment when he could have offered compassion with mercy.

Oz

I can't Relate fully to your hurt .I agree that the church sucks at helping the weeping .

I battle demons daily .thoughts of taking my life are strong .if I don't tell people they won't know .stoic old Jason

 

[OzSpen]

I can't Relate fully to your hurt .I agree that the church sucks at helping the weeping .

I battle demons daily .thoughts of taking my life are strong .if I don't tell people they won't know .stoic old Jason

Jason,

We are right off track with the OP. I'll start a new thread, "Weeping with those who weep."

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I have started a new thread at: "Weep with those who weep."

 

[PeterJens]

after writing all of this, you say nothing! The simple answer to my own question, is 100% IMPOSSIBLE!!!

Here is the problem, about responsibility and awareness.
It is possible to identify in the brain functions relating to empathy and connectedness between individuals.
It is also possible to show fear, sexual drive and anger issues vary a lot between people.

The simplistic view of responsibility is sinners are equally responsible for their behaviour and resolution to the pressures and problems of life. But after looking at the evidence this is clearly not true. There is a massive difference between abused children, brought up in a violent situation as opposed to those with loving caring parents.

Some describe themselves as 100% created by God and His intentions.
Some people took a prison with hardened violent prisoners and started to give them relationship therapy.

They found 25% of the population were so disturbed, nothing they could do could help them.
So God in His creation made variation that makes some folk appear trapped into unresolvable sinful behaviour.

So if you take a view that God creation is not neat and tidy, but variable and set up to adapt and work out the best solution for a given situation, you say God created the potential for failure, but the system chose to create it.

If this is God ordaining sin, then God ordained sin.

Take a psychopath. Emotionally they do not connect with anyone, so regret or understanding of how others feel. They lack the part of the brain that empathises.

Jesus wept with the people who were mourning Lazarus's death, even though He knew Lazarus would be raised from the dead. Jesus felt empathy. A large part of Jesus's preaching and emphasis is on empathy, and caring for others. So I ask the question, how fundamental is love to empathy, caring and being broken because of guilt and pain caused to others, sin, which leads to repentance, and salvation? If one has no love for others, no empathy or care for how others are, is there such a thing as eternal life?

Our prisons are full of people who cannot cope with life and its challenges. Are we just to throw away the key, or get involved in identity, love, care and who we are at a fundamental level, and let Gods love talk?

 

[GodsGrace]

Here is the problem, about responsibility and awareness.
It is possible to identify in the brain functions relating to empathy and connectedness between individuals.
It is also possible to show fear, sexual drive and anger issues vary a lot between people.

The simplistic view of responsibility is sinners are equally responsible for their behaviour and resolution to the pressures and problems of life. But after looking at the evidence this is clearly not true. There is a massive difference between abused children, brought up in a violent situation as opposed to those with loving caring parents.

Some describe themselves as 100% created by God and His intentions.
Some people took a prison with hardened violent prisoners and started to give them relationship therapy.

They found 25% of the population were so disturbed, nothing they could do could help them.
So God in His creation made variation that makes some folk appear trapped into unresolvable sinful behaviour.

So if you take a view that God creation is not neat and tidy, but variable and set up to adapt and work out the best solution for a given situation, you say God created the potential for failure, but the system chose to create it.

If this is God ordaining sin, then God ordained sin.

Take a psychopath. Emotionally they do not connect with anyone, so regret or understanding of how others feel. They lack the part of the brain that empathises.

Jesus wept with the people who were mourning Lazarus's death, even though He knew Lazarus would be raised from the dead. Jesus felt empathy. A large part of Jesus's preaching and emphasis is on empathy, and caring for others. So I ask the question, how fundamental is love to empathy, caring and being broken because of guilt and pain caused to others, sin, which leads to repentance, and salvation? If one has no love for others, no empathy or care for how others are, is there such a thing as eternal life?

Our prisons are full of people who cannot cope with life and its challenges. Are we just to throw away the key, or get involved in identity, love, care and who we are at a fundamental level, and let Gods love talk?

I agree with what you've written.

But what about that 25% you speak of that does not feel empathy or love?
Maybe they were born this way,,,maybe they were molded this way by parents, friends, etc.
But the outcome is still the same.
IF they were BORN this way...how would God be responsible?
Or would He be?

 

[JLB]

Nothing more than a written document, not inspired by God, but written of men who follow that of Augustine's reformation theologies that Calvinism has derived from as they try to make scripture line up with what they say instead of lining up with what is already written

 

[PeterJens]

I agree with what you've written.

But what about that 25% you speak of that does not feel empathy or love?
Maybe they were born this way,,,maybe they were molded this way by parents, friends, etc.
But the outcome is still the same.
IF they were BORN this way...how would God be responsible?
Or would He be?

This is the situation I do not have an answer to.
It is a similar observation regarding to Jesus's quote
"No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit" Luke 6:43
"As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up." Matt 13:4

Jesus did not point out the source of a bad tree or the hard path, yet both cause the problems highlighted.
The apostles linked disease to sin and judgement.

His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." John 9:2-3

Cause and effect is a reductionist view on everything, and assumes there is one answer to every situation, which ignores the complexity involved.

So I avoid the simple summary, rather to paint the problems of seeking a single answer to every situation, when each story is unique and different.

A question for me after communication with believers up to the time of their passing, they knew theology and faith, but did not know love. It struck me their foundations where not in Christ, so anything they said or did with this foundation was pointless. What is possible in the heart seems very hidden other than in the people of the light.
So I now see words need to hold all these considerations in tension to begin to see what is.

Another aspect of this is the idea truth is absolute. And this is real, except we only experience truth in our limited state as humans, bounded by our emotional states. So we desire to know "I am saved", yet it is the reflection of Jesus's life in our lives that begin to reflect this reality as John said
"We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands." 1 John 2:3

Jesus knew love would make His community of disciples love each other deeply.
But my experience is few groups know what this means, without going across boundaries and taking over other peoples lives inappropriately.

Once one sees so much of what we think we understand only falls within our emotional experience, there is much we cannot say. God is love, and created man to be His people. This was good.

I understand unless one sees love from ones own heart, the viewpoint will not be shared or seen.
This defines the limitation of our discussions, but be sharing we can encourage one another in the love Christ has given us.