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The WORD of God

T

TheStudent

Guest
'BE'.

This is ALL God has to say to bring something into existence. This is the WORD that makes God The Creator. with this simple word He can do ALL things.

we are given some of Gods qualites. mercy, love and forgivenes. but now you say it, 'Be'. what can you achieve with it? nothing. this is the seperation between man and God. 'Be' belongs to God only.

It is in the meaning of this WORD which christians have misinterpreted to mean jesus.

it is only during the time of conception of jesus that Allah said 'Be' and Mary conceived. this was needed as jesus was born without a father. Allah used this word to create him, just as he used this word to create Adam.
this is why, in the quran, jesus is called 'THE WORD OF GOD' just as in the bible. Jesus LITERARY was SPOKEN into existence.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him" (Jn. 1:1-3).

how can 'God' be the 'word'. is God not eternal? who existed BEFORE existence and has ALWAYS existed? does God have a beggining? of course not. this is one of the Glories of God.

surah mary:
35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.

surah imran:45
(And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).

moderators!! im not 'promoting' islam. i am just offering a viewpoint! please do not delete my posts!
 
no son, mother,father, brother or sister.

God is UNIQUE in every aspect with no partner or equal or heir
 
TheStudent said:
surah mary:
35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.
Click to expand...


Quran, Surah 6:101


YUSUFALI: To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things.
PICKTHAL: The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?
SHAKIR: Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things.
KHALIFA: The Initiator of the heavens and the earth. How can He have a son, when He never had a mate? He created all things, and He is fully aware of all things.

from- http://www.universalunity.net/quran4/006.qmt.html



"How could He have a son when He has no consort"


This may not have been aimed specifically at Christianity, but if applied to Christianity then the argument is clearly false. As I have seen it expressed, it is like saying that God can't be alive because he doesn't breathe.
 
and have you never heard the phrase 'mary, mother of God'.
do you not believe that Jesus is the BEGOTTEN Son of God? you do know what BEGOTTEN really means dont you?

so how can he have a son when he has no consort? Who is His equal?

unlike christians we believe in God who is PERFECT. He has no sex or race. God has no consort. there is no one esle on His level. unlike christians we do not believe that God had 'relations' with Mary!!! what a blasphemous thought!

blessed,
'thank you for answering this as it validates to me that Allah is a false god'

the question i ask you is, are you sure? are you so sure that you will gamble your soul on it?
 
one more question: do you think you know everything about god?
 
of course not. I can only tell you what/who God is by what He has told us. I try never to add my own words to Him as I may be adding a lie.

let me ask you, do you know everything about YOURSELF? do you know how many times your heart beat today? do you know how much air you have circulated? of course not. Our knowledge of God is just like this, incomplete.

But I do know that God is unique and unlike any of His creation in ANY pyhical way. one of the lessons of Islam is that we are taught that anytime you think you KNOW Allah, what He looks like for example, you ARE wrong. Our minds have been made unable to comprehend His vision or even IMAGINE His vision. does this make sense? Yet it is written in the Quran that Allah is closer to YOU than your jugular vein. yes, the same Allah you dont believe in. this same Allah is with us at ALL times. who knows our thoughts even before we think them.
 
TheStudent said:
and have you never heard the phrase 'mary, mother of God'.
do you not believe that Jesus is the BEGOTTEN Son of God? you do know what BEGOTTEN really means dont you?

so how can he have a son when he has no consort? Who is His equal?

unlike christians we believe in God who is PERFECT. He has no sex or race. God has no consort. there is no one esle on His level. unlike christians we do not believe that God had 'relations' with Mary!!! what a blasphemous thought!

blessed,
'thank you for answering this as it validates to me that Allah is a false god'

the question i ask you is, are you sure? are you so sure that you will gamble your soul on it?
Click to expand...
My sould has already been redeemed and there is nothing that your allah can do for me. The golden calf could do nothing for the isrealites and allah is in the same boat.
 
TheStudent said:
and have you never heard the phrase 'mary, mother of God'.
do you not believe that Jesus is the BEGOTTEN Son of God? you do know what BEGOTTEN really means dont you?

so how can he have a son when he has no consort? Who is His equal?

unlike christians we believe in God who is PERFECT. He has no sex or race. God has no consort. there is no one esle on His level. unlike christians we do not believe that God had 'relations' with Mary!!! what a blasphemous thought!

blessed,
'thank you for answering this as it validates to me that Allah is a false god'

the question i ask you is, are you sure? are you so sure that you will gamble your soul on it?
Click to expand...

I have met Jesus Christ face to face, so yeah, I am pretty certain of my choice of which God I worship. Nary a worry here. My name is in the Lamb's Book of Life and I know whom I serve. He loves me and inspires me to renew and rededicate my self to Him each and every day. I will follow Him.
 
TheStudent said:
.... Yet it is written in the Quran that Allah is closer to YOU than your jugular vein. yes, the same Allah you dont believe in. this same Allah is with us at ALL times. who knows our thoughts even before we think them.
Click to expand...

Where is Allah?

  • He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days;
    then He mounted the Throne. ... (Pickthall Translation)
    -- Sura 57:4

    It was We Who created man,
    and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him:
    for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein. (Yusuf Ali)
    -- Sura 50:16
Is the throne of Allah at your jugular vein? That question is silly, so it seems. Obviously one can easily understand these verses to mean, that Allah is near to you and to everyone equally since he is not in any location in particular. Allah is "everywhere" in the sense that there is no place that is without his presence. What about the throne? The throne symbolizes the power and sovereignty of Allah's rule. One does not need to understand it as a physical location. And in fact, Yusuf Ali translates it as if it is not an act of sitting down on the throne (which is the literal meaning of the Arabic), but as a metaphorical expression for his power.

  • He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days,
    and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). ...
This would solve the question if each mentioning of Allah's throne could always be understood metaphorically. But what then do we make of this following ayat?

  • And He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days -
    and His Throne was upon the water -
    that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. ...
    -- Sura 11:7
Is the water also metaphorical? Even if it might not be entirely clear where this water was (the ocean, the rain clouds, ...?), this seems to be clearly a statement of location for this throne and no longer to be metaphorical. Also, the Arabic is past tense, and the question is then: Is the throne still upon the water, and if not, where has it moved to? And then there is this verse:
  • He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth:
    in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day,
    the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning    ."
    -- Sura 32:5

    The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day
    the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years    :
    -- Sura 70:4
If Allah is nearer to us than our jugular vein, why is there any need for the "affairs" (?), angels and the spirit to travel at all to reach Allah? Is there any interpretation of Sura 32:5 and 70:4 which does not involve a physical "distance" between the earth and Allah that has to be bridged?

Sura 50:16 could be understood that Allah is equally near everywhere, and there is no place you can go to be nearer to Him than were you are at this time.

Then why does anyone or anything have to travel to reach Allah?

-Source-

More contradictions in the Quran -here-

:-? :-? :-?
 
gary,
if you can explain that, then you can explain the nature of the spirit world. you do not know it, i do not know it. Only God knows. The life after this is nothing like the life here.
so is it a contradiction? no

is it you just dont have the wisdom to understand it? yes

the Quran is not a story book. there are some passages that Allah said man will not be able to understand. to understand this you must also know that just the RECITAL of the quran, even without understanding, is a blessing.

its like reading a dictianary. you may not understand the meanig to all the words, but you know they are all correct.
 
Thanks, you have again just shot yourself in the foot and shown that Muhammad was wrong about the Quran....

Sura 4:82 states:

  • Do they not ponder on the Qur'an?
    Had it been from other than Allah,
    they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.
You have not solved the "discrepancy" above.
There are many more as well... -here-

:-?
 
TheStudent said:
unlike christians we believe in God who is PERFECT. He has no sex or race. God has no consort. there is no one esle on His level. unlike christians we do not believe that God had 'relations' with Mary!!! what a blasphemous thought!
Click to expand...


I am not sure that Christians believe what you suggest. :D
 
TheStudent said:
so how can he have a son when he has no consort?
Click to expand...


As I said, it is like saying that God can't be alive because he doesn't breathe.
 
Gary_Bee said:
TheStudent said:
.... Yet it is written in the Quran that Allah is closer to YOU than your jugular vein. yes, the same Allah you dont believe in. this same Allah is with us at ALL times. who knows our thoughts even before we think them.
Click to expand...

Where is Allah?

  • He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days;
    then He mounted the Throne. ... (Pickthall Translation)
    -- Sura 57:4

    It was We Who created man,
    and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him:
    for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein. (Yusuf Ali)
    -- Sura 50:16
Is the throne of Allah at your jugular vein? That question is silly, so it seems. Obviously one can easily understand these verses to mean, that Allah is near to you and to everyone equally since he is not in any location in particular. Allah is "everywhere" in the sense that there is no place that is without his presence. What about the throne? The throne symbolizes the power and sovereignty of Allah's rule. One does not need to understand it as a physical location. And in fact, Yusuf Ali translates it as if it is not an act of sitting down on the throne (which is the literal meaning of the Arabic), but as a metaphorical expression for his power.

  • He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days,
    and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). ...
This would solve the question if each mentioning of Allah's throne could always be understood metaphorically. But what then do we make of this following ayat?

  • And He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days -
    and His Throne was upon the water -
    that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. ...
    -- Sura 11:7
Is the water also metaphorical? Even if it might not be entirely clear where this water was (the ocean, the rain clouds, ...?), this seems to be clearly a statement of location for this throne and no longer to be metaphorical. Also, the Arabic is past tense, and the question is then: Is the throne still upon the water, and if not, where has it moved to? And then there is this verse:
  • He rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth:
    in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him, on a Day,
    the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning    ."
    -- Sura 32:5

    The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day
    the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years    :
    -- Sura 70:4
If Allah is nearer to us than our jugular vein, why is there any need for the "affairs" (?), angels and the spirit to travel at all to reach Allah? Is there any interpretation of Sura 32:5 and 70:4 which does not involve a physical "distance" between the earth and Allah that has to be bridged?

Sura 50:16 could be understood that Allah is equally near everywhere, and there is no place you can go to be nearer to Him than were you are at this time.

Then why does anyone or anything have to travel to reach Allah?

-Source-

More contradictions in the Quran -here-

:-? :-? :-?
Click to expand...



Gary, you seem like the atheist when they ask Abu hanifa about God.

Read:

Atheists asked Abu-haneefa (one of the greatest scholars and researcher of Muslims): in which year your God has been found?

He said :sad God existing before history and times no earlier for his existence…

He said to them : What is before The four?

They said(Atheists) : Three…

He said to them : what is before The three?

They said(Atheists) : Two …

He said to them : what is before The TWO?

They said(Atheists) : One …

He said to them : what is before The ONE?

They said(Atheists) : Nothing before the one …

He said to them : Since the arithmetic's ones is nothing before it, so how the real one and he is Allah? ! No earlier for his existence…

They said(Atheists) : in which side your God be ?

He said : if you bring a lamp in a dark place, in which side the light will be ?

They said(Atheists) : Everywhere

He said : Since this is the artificial light, so how the earth's and heavens's light will be?

They said(Atheists) : Tell us about your God’s Reality? Is it hard like iron or liquid like water or gaseous as steam and vapor ?

He said : Have you set beside patient be moribund ?
They said(Atheists) : Yes we did.

He said : Did he talk to you after the death?

They said(Atheists): No

he said : Was he talking and moving before death?

They said(Atheists): Yes

He said : What was changed him?

They said(Atheists): His soul going out

he said : His soul has been gone out?

They said(Atheists): Yes

he said : Describe for me this soul, is it hard like iron or liquid like water or gaseous as steam and vapor ?

They said(Atheists): We don’t know anything about it!!

He said : Since the created soul you don’t know any thing about it, so how you want me to describe the God?!!!

Salam
 
Sura 4:82 states:

  • Do they not ponder on the Qur'an?
    Had it been from other than Allah,
    they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.
You have not solved the "discrepancy" above.
There are many more as well... -here-

You prove the point Muhsen.... you cannot resolve the "discrepancy" either!

Again, the Quran fails.

:)
 
TheStudent said:
and have you never heard the phrase 'mary, mother of God'.
do you not believe that Jesus is the BEGOTTEN Son of God? you do know what BEGOTTEN really means dont you?

so how can he have a son when he has no consort? Who is His equal?

unlike christians we believe in God who is PERFECT.
really and just how do you know?
He has no sex or race.
Yes GOD has a sex and a race it is HE and HE is the GOD of the human race. If GOD has no race why do you only speak to HIM in arabic and why do you have to read the quran in arabic and be a muslim to reach allah?
God has no consort. there is no one esle on His level. unlike christians we do not believe that God had 'relations' with Mary!!! what a blasphemous thought!
OK here we go again GOD never had a sexual relationship with Miriam if you can read go read Luke and then come back and tell us just where is says that GOD had a sexual relationship with Miriam?
tell us do you believe the Holy Spirit? if you do is it in the quran? I know that you believe in angles, but what about the Holy Spirit? Or the Spirit of GOD if you will.
shalom and love in the name of YESHUA



blessed,
'thank you for answering this as it validates to me that Allah is a false god'

the question i ask you is, are you sure? are you so sure that you will gamble your soul on it? Are you willing to gamble your soul that YESHUA is not the SON of GOD and the only way to reach GOD?
Click to expand...
 
TheStudent said:
'BE'.

This is ALL God has to say to bring something into existence. This is the WORD that makes God The Creator. with this simple word He can do ALL things.

we are given some of Gods qualites. mercy, love and forgivenes. but now you say it, 'Be'. what can you achieve with it? nothing. this is the seperation between man and God. 'Be' belongs to God only.

It is in the meaning of this WORD which christians have misinterpreted to mean jesus.

it is only during the time of conception of jesus that Allah said 'Be' and Mary conceived. this was needed as jesus was born without a father. Allah used this word to create him, just as he used this word to create Adam.
this is why, in the quran, jesus is called 'THE WORD OF GOD' just as in the bible. Jesus LITERARY was SPOKEN into existence.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him" (Jn. 1:1-3).

how can 'God' be the 'word'. is God not eternal? who existed BEFORE existence and has ALWAYS existed? does God have a beggining? of course not. this is one of the Glories of God.

surah mary:
35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.

surah imran:45
(And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).

moderators!! im not 'promoting' islam. i am just offering a viewpoint! please do not delete my posts!
Click to expand...
Hello again Student:

My word does indeed make things happen- but on a much more limited scale than God's infinitely powerful and personified word. My brain tells my arm to move, but something- or rather someone- in my brain tells my brain to tell my arm to move. This 'person' cannot be found by researchers, who refer to it as "the decision maker." I hear this person when I am alone. Do you not hear yourself speaking to yourself when you are alone? That is your self-awareness of self.

God made us in His image and likeness. Our voice, our 'word' does have the power to make it 'be.' The limit of the word of Iakovos (me) is the limit of the authority of my voice. The commander of 100 troops is given authority over the 100, and his word makes it so. But our word works imperfectly because our authority is imperfect and is granted in an imperfect world. Jesus said "ALL authority under heaven and earth have been given" Him. By whom? The person of the Father, from whom His Word goes forth in authority and revelation.

You seem to argue also that John 1:1 does not imply a personification of o Logos (The Word). By way of comparison, Look at revelation 19:13- it is quite clear that the Christian Scriptures personify the Word.

And rightly so- Go is personal, an Infinite Being of Infinite personality, unknowable, unsearchable, yet revealing Himself through His Word. It is the word of each being that identifies them, reveals them.

Regarding "In the beginning"- this particular English term is misleading, for the Greek from which it is lifted 'en arche.' does not mean what we think of when we hear "in the beginning." Why? Because when we think of 'beginning,' we think about that which came before the beginning. En arche in John chapter one means "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause." This is not a statement of time, but is rather a statement of existence.

It is absolutely fitting that God's Word is personified, as is His breath. The scriptures bear witness to both.

peace

Iakovos
 
unlike christians we believe in God who is PERFECT.
really and just how do you know?

What is God but perfection?
--

He has no sex or race.
Yes GOD has a sex and a race it is HE and HE is the GOD of the human race. If GOD has no race why do you only speak to HIM in arabic and why do you have to read the quran in arabic and be a muslim to reach allah?

this is a rookie mistake. 'He' in this case does not inply a sex! do you really know what you are saying? you have taken these words TOO literaly. 'Male' and 'female' sexes are the CREATION of God. Once again, How can you call the CREATED the CREATOR? you cant do it! also do you know what a ROYAL TERM is? google it and find out. would you rather call God 'IT' or 'HE'? what shows more respect?
-----

God has no consort. there is no one esle on His level. unlike christians we do not believe that God had 'relations' with Mary!!! what a blasphemous thought!
OK here we go again GOD never had a sexual relationship with Miriam if you can read go read Luke and then come back and tell us just where is says that GOD had a sexual relationship with Miriam?

tell me, in your words, what does 'BEGOTTEN' mean?
---
tell us do you believe the Holy Spirit? if you do is it in the quran? I know that you believe in angles, but what about the Holy Spirit? Or the Spirit of GOD if you will.

in the quran jesus is said to have been made from a 'Spirit FROM God'. It also says that he is strengthened by the PURESET SPIRIT as were all prophets. the 'pureset spirit' is another name for angel gabriel. it is these two phrases in bible that christians have confused and transformed into the 'Holy Spirit'
 
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