Growth The Zoe Life

[Chopper]

 

[for_his_glory]

Well, one problem might be putting more into the word "zoe" than it can hold. The "Zoe" we have by being connected to God is eternal life. That's not always going to be a joyful experience while we're still on this earth.
We don't get to have joy all the time. Loved one's die. People suffer from diseases. People are the victims of crimes.
Jesus said that in this world you will have tribulation. (Jhn 16:33) That isn't joyful.
Jesus said his disciples would be persecuted. (Jhn 15:20) That's not joyful.
Mar 13:9 "But take heed to yourselves; for they will deliver you up to councils; and you will be beaten in synagogues" That's not joyful.
There is no guarantee of joy in this world and I am very circumspect about people who are always happy.

Jesus said he would give us His peace.
Jhn 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.
So, if we practice putting our trust in God, (and it takes practice) we can have peace in the midst of tribulation and persecution and beatings and imprisonments....just like Paul.

iakov the fool

We still have joy even in tribulations as we have the promise of the Father that He will never leave us nor forsakes us. What did Paul and Silas do when thrown into prison, they sang praises to the Lord. Our emotions can be deceiving, but the joy of the Lord is ever present if like what was said by Skipper, you do not unplug from it.

 

[for_his_glory]

K.Wuest says the zoe life is the resurrection life which the set apart enjoy. I like that. And that resurrection life must include a level of Joy. In John 1, It says "In Him is Life and that Life is the Light men. Without JesusGod, we'd be in total darkness. As I struggle with a lack of Joy sometimes, I have to ask myself, what has caused me to unplug from the source of zoe, that resurrection life? JesusGod also says, "I have come to give you life and that you may have it more abundantly". Same word zoe here. Right in the midst of all our confusement and denominational differences, I believe we are still suppose to experience that zoe. Unless of course we've unplugged from our "Life Support" system. And of course the enemy of our soul would like nothing better.

Hi Skipper and welcome to CF
I love the unplugged part as I never thought of that in the way you presented it and will use that word when talking to others who have lost their joy. God bless you for this post as it is very important to never lose our joy.

 

[for_his_glory]

By the way everyone, Chopper is my Dad.:yes

You come from a truly blessed man of God as we love us some Chopper . Looking forward to more of your wisdom and insights and here's a for you.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you Reba. Hey Skip, this Reba is the most godly woman that I've met on the internet. She helped me so much when I first started in CF.net. I, every morning, pray for her Husband John to be saved. O the heart of my buddy Reba would sing praises to God over John's Salvation so loud that her wonderful preacher Dad would hear it.

So Skip, I asking you to pray for John's Salvation each morning, and where two agree, it will be done. Actually three, Reba, me and you. Oh boy, I can hardly wait for Reba to tell us, JOHN'S SAVED!!

Make that four

 

[Skipper]

Hi Skipper and welcome to CF
I love the unplugged part as I never thought of that in the way you presented it and will use that word when talking to others who have lost their joy. God bless you for this post as it is very important to never lose our joy.

Thanks for His glory, I appreciate it

 

[Brother Mike]

Well Chopper, you remind me of a scenario that happened to me awhile ago when you mentioned your heavy equipment experience. I was involved in "unjust suffering" for a few weeks. K. Wuest says when Christians are subjected to unjust suffering as a result of God's will, He will make our soul/spirit prosperous. Chuck Swindoll says the same thing. I remember back to that experience, and I did have an energy that I would have to say was from the Holy Spirit, and it helped me keep my attitude in check. We may have to give something up in our unjust suffering "episodes", but I thing I would rather be prospered in my soul anyway. Like you said, Col 3:1 we should be seeking those things which are above. Wuest says the things of earth are not necessarily evil in and of themselves, it's when they take preference over the things above that they become sin. Andrew Murray says something like, My soul, you wait only upon God; my hands and feet may have to be intently engaged in the duties of this day, but my soul will wait on God. I like that. Easy for me to say, but quite hard at times to focus on.

Greetings Choppers son. Glad your here. Let's talk about Suffer and K. Wues or Chucks belief on those things.

Act_9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Rom_8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

1Pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.


2Ti_3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.


There is no such thing as Unjust suffering according to the will of God. It's not God's will that you suffer at all. If it was, then there would be great suffering in Heaven, and I imagine Heaven is not full of suffering.

It's God's will that you suffer doing good, Not because He wants you to suffer, but because if your going to suffer then it should be for doing well.

When we were born again, we did not inherit a scapegoat called God. We fall, break a ankle, then it does not automatically become God's will we broke our bones. God never gets the blame for that and it's evil to suggest such things. Instead we get to examine some things. 1) did I ignore something in my heart not to climb that? Most of our suffering come from not be led by the Holy Spirit and God leads us out of temptations and trials, not lead us in. Jesus already went through all that for us, we don't need to try to take his place.
If the devil just got a shot off, then how we respond to that is important. Tribulations works patience, and patience has experience, and experience hope. My experience is that God always comes through, in fact I don't bat a eye at anything that comes up anymore. What is suffering for most is no big deal to me as I already know the outcome. That is what is important, what do you do when adverse things come up.

A unsaved co-worker is actually in more danger to break some bones than me. He has no God, no abundant life, and the thief has free access to kill, steal and destroy from His life. The thief does not have the free access into my life.

As a witness to Jesus, the World hates you, so there by default should be some resistance to what you believe, even things that seem unfair, like getting passed over for that Job promotion. This comes in the form of persecutions, not sickness, broken bones and poverty. How you handle these things can mean a promotion from God. That's a promotion nothing can stop.

It's never God's will that you suffer, and certainly God would never will anything unjust. You live on earth just like everyone else, and have to deal with the god of this world like everyone else. The difference is that the devils weapons formed against can't prosper, or should not be able to prosper, the World has no such hope. You do.

Eph_2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


Mike.

 

[Skipper]

Greetings Mike. The unjust suffering that Im talking about is more on the lines of Joseph. When we do what is right and maintain our integrity before God and still suffer for it. While Joseph was in the dungeon, we have no indication that he had a sour attitude. In fact, we have just the opposite. While he's in there, he tries to encourage someone else. Chuck Swindoll says he thinks when we go through that kind of unjust suffering that God gives us His "chesed" Hebrew word for mercy/lovingkindness. I dont believe Joseph was on his own to deal with his situation by the power of his flesh. I believe he was "upheld underneath by the Everlasting Arms".
Also, in 1 Pet 2:18-20, K. Wuest, ... "for this subjection to those who are against you is something which is beyond the ordinary course of what might be expected and is therefore commendable, namely, when a person because of the conscious sense of his relation to God bears up under the pain, suffering unjustly."

 

[Brother Mike]

Greetings Mike. The unjust suffering that Im talking about is more on the lines of Joseph. When we do what is right and maintain our integrity before God and still suffer for it. While Joseph was in the dungeon, we have no indication that he had a sour attitude. In fact, we have just the opposite. While he's in there, he tries to encourage someone else. Chuck Swindoll says he thinks when we go through that kind of unjust suffering that God gives us His "chesed" Hebrew word for mercy/lovingkindness. I dont believe Joseph was on his own to deal with his situation by the power of his flesh. I believe he was "upheld underneath by the Everlasting Arms".
Also, in 1 Pet 2:18-20, K. Wuest, ... "for this subjection to those who are against you is something which is beyond the ordinary course of what might be expected and is therefore commendable, namely, when a person because of the conscious sense of his relation to God bears up under the pain, suffering unjustly."

Ok Skipper, I read something different at first. Just a reminder of what you wrote.

"when Christians are subjected to unjust suffering as a result of God's will"

Statistically the unsaved suffer far worse things than spirit filled believers do. Accusing God of doing wrong or being unjust is a pretty crazy statement. Nobody is suffering because God decides they suffer, that is the wrong god, it's the god of this world that causes suffering.

How you word things is important, but still. We have a real devil to contend with.

Psa 105:17 He sent a man before them, even Joseph, who was sold for a servant:
Psa 105:18 Whose feet they hurt with fetters: he was laid in iron:
Psa 105:19 Until the time that his word came: the word of the LORD tried him.
Psa 105:20 The king sent and loosed him; even the ruler of the people, and let him go free.
Psa 105:21 He made him lord of his house, and ruler of all his substance:

Did God have Joseph sold and have his father made to think he was dead? Not hardly. Joseph's suffering, not that it looks like He let it bother him a bit had nothing to do with God's will.

Joseph as you said did really well, and Held onto that Word He had from the Lord. All Physical evidence looked like Joseph was in no condition to ever be leader of anything or have his brothers bow to him. The Word tried him, but he held on to it. When the Word came to pass, everything changed.

So, your right, what you do until it comes to pass means everything. It's not all up to God.

Gal_6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

When I got the call from Chicago saying my son would be dead that night, at best next morning, nothing could be done. It was not time to cry, faint, beg God, pray again. All that is unbelief. My response was, is that the best you have devil, a evil report, really.

So what happens if your believing God for something, Like Joseph? What should you expect?

Mar 4:16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
Mar 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

Now every time you believe God's Word does not mean some nasty persecution is on the way, but it should be accounted for and prepared for every time. Joseph was doing great, but here comes Potiphar's wife.

If believers were on the look at for her, and prepared, a lot of them would still be here today.

Mike.

 

[Skipper]

Well Mike, I think you are correct about wording being important. I dont want to get in a debate with you about wording of God's will, as I dont think this forum allows debate. But I would like to say on a "light" note; I believe their are 2 encompassing wills of God. This is just my take on things. First, we have his Decreed/Determined will as in Job 14:1,5; Man, who is born of woman, is short-lived and full of turmoil...
Since his days are determined, The number of his months is with You, And his limits You have set so that he cannot pass. Second, we have His permissive will as with Joseph. God allowed Joseph to go through suffering. God didnt cause the suffering. He permitted it. God is in Sovereign Control, not the enemy of our soul.

 

[Brother Mike]

Well Mike, I think you are correct about wording being important. I dont want to get in a debate with you about wording of God's will, as I dont think this forum allows debate. But I would like to say on a "light" note; I believe their are 2 encompassing wills of God. This is just my take on things. First, we have his Decreed/Determined will as in Job 14:1,5; Man, who is born of woman, is short-lived and full of turmoil...
Since his days are determined, The number of his months is with You, And his limits You have set so that he cannot pass. Second, we have His permissive will as with Joseph. God allowed Joseph to go through suffering. God didnt cause the suffering. He permitted it. God is in Sovereign Control, not the enemy of our soul.

Hey Skipper. Your dad and I have known each other for some time, I signed up in 2008. We have had some similar discussions.

So now if your into any ministry work then how we say things is very important because what we say is not always what someone hears, and ultimately it's what they think they hear we say that affects their life, regardless if we actually said it or meant it in a way they understood.

Your take on things, thank you for sharing that. How you understand it. I will expound on how it works.

1) We are humans with bodies, pretty frail really. God knows this. Agree. One reason people need God, because without God in this present world, I could not imagine my life without Him. How folks go day to day without God and it not bother them is crazy.

2) Job needed some help, we won't get into Job.

3) God's permissive will. That is a religious statement, not a bible statement. It's like saying God is OK with me going to this church, but I know He really wants me at that church. I am doing most of His will, so He is happy enough.

4) God did not cause suffering, He allowed it. That's like saying I did not push the baby in the Pool, I just watched the baby crawl into the pool and drown, Not my fault. I could have done something, but I was reading a book. Another religious statement.

Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Let's look at this from a Father's perspective. Someone with amazing abilities.

Court date example and facing a year in Jail.
So they drag me into court over something I did not know was a law, in fact I was at church doing nothing wrong the night they claimed I should have been at home.

They press charges, and I am in court, not a felony so they won't pay for a lawyer, but a year in jail anyway. I defend myself. and I studied day and night case after case after case to get ready for court.
On my hearing he Judge gets all the information and says He has to think about what is presented. I don't hear another for for a whole year.

A year is up, the state decides to prosecute me anyway, so I have to go back, go over all my stuff and back to study day and night.

It's weighing on me from time to time.

Now, who's fault this situation is troubling me? It's mine. Is it God's permissive will? Nope. God had nothing to do with it, He is not in control of it. I am still his kid though and I let it bug me for months.

I let this bother me, but how does God look at it?

God looks at it as if I should never have left His rest and the Peace bought and paid for by Jesus. It's not a issue if it's not perceived as a issue.

From God's perspective, there is no issue at all. Like a father taking his boy out to learn to swim. The father has the boy the whole time, even if the boy thinks he might drown, the father would not let him.

It took me a bit, but I came to my senses, I said father, I am done thinking about this, you fix it. I should have come to my sense much sooner.

So the day they were going to set the trail the judged asked me when do I want my trial, I heard in my spirit 3 months and just said that to the judge. The judge thought that was a bit to far out, but the prosecution agreed.

So now at the day of trail I am loaded for bear, did my research. The call me up and the Prosecutor says the state is dropping all charges due to the Supreme court ruling the day before. I was stunned.

Most of that time I was going through suffering until toward the end. I choose that, with God He can change anything in less than a second. He won't let you drown.

Like Israel, they were very concerned about the giants in the land. God wasn't concerned at all about the giants. It caused them great suffering and wailing but the giant issue was not even on God's plate.

Any suffering we are doing during a issue is not because of the situation or God's will, it's a trust issue.

Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Are we supposed to be suffering or saying Glory to God, I get my patience worked on. It's the end of patience where lack of trust begins, and if that happens, things can go very wrong. Faith and patience inherit the promises, and I am sure most of us wish God never mentioned a thing about having patience.

God bless.
Mike.