[_ Old Earth _] Theory of Evolution crash course/Q&A

[Barbarian]

That's the problem. Artificial does not mean ONLY humans. It could also mean ANY intelligent beings.

ARTIFICIAL
ar·ti·fi·cial
[ahr-tuh-fish-uhl]
adjective
1.made by human skill; produced by humans (opposed to natural ): artificial flowers.
2.imitation; simulated; sham: artificial vanilla flavoring.
3.lacking naturalness or spontaneity; forced; contrived; feigned: an artificial smile.

Sorry, you're wrong.

We are created in the image of God. If what we do is "artificial" how can you say if God Himself did something is not artificial?

Because "artificial", as you see, means "made by humans" as opposed to "natural." God does natural. He creates, we design.

If you think God using nature, so does the mutations are NOT random but it can be considered a "process of designing" by God rather than "evolving without a goal".

Remember, only limited creatures design. God creates. And now you're also confusing final and efficient causes. God can, as you know, use contingency just as easily as He can use necessity, to effect His will.

 

[felix]

That's the problem. Artificial does not mean ONLY humans. It could also mean ANY intelligent beings.

ARTIFICIAL
ar·ti·fi·cial
[ahr-tuh-fish-uhl]
adjective
1.made by human skill; produced by humans (opposed to natural ): artificial flowers.
2.imitation; simulated; sham: artificial vanilla flavoring.
3.lacking naturalness or spontaneity; forced; contrived; feigned: an artificial smile.

Sorry, you're wrong.

We are created in the image of God. If what we do is "artificial" how can you say if God Himself did something is not artificial?

Because "artificial", as you see, means "made by humans" as opposed to "natural." God does natural. He creates, we design.

If you think God using nature, so does the mutations are NOT random but it can be considered a "process of designing" by God rather than "evolving without a goal".

Remember, only limited creatures design. God creates. And now you're also confusing final and efficient causes. God can, as you know, use contingency just as easily as He can use necessity, to effect His will.

I think you posted something contradicting to what you are saying:

All the words that I have bolded and underlined from your own post speaks against you. Artificial does not mean "only humans". Anything that is "forced", "simulated", "contrived" - all are artificial.

 

[Barbarian]

I think you posted something contradicting to what you are saying:

No, and in just a moment, you'll realize why.

All the words that I have bolded and underlined from your own post speaks against you. Artificial does not mean "only humans". Anything that is "forced", "simulated", "contrived" - all are artificial.

Did God have to force creation? Nope. Just His spoken word. Did He "simulate" creation? Nope. It's the real thing. Did He "contrive" creation? Nope. God didn't have to figure anything out. He just created as He already knew everything that would be needed.

Nice try, though.

 

[felix]

Did God have to force creation? Nope.

(Psalms 100:3) Know that the LORD, He [is] God; [It is] He [who] has made us, and not we ourselves; [We are] His people and the sheep of His pasture.

Did He "contrive" creation? Nope. God didn't have to figure anything out. He just created as He already knew everything that would be needed.

(Isaiah 45:9) " Woe to him who strives with his Maker! [Let] the potsherd [strive] with the potsherds of the earth! Shall the clay say to him who forms it, 'What are you making?' Or shall your handiwork [say,] 'He has no hands'?
:
(Isaiah 45:18) For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: "I [am] the LORD, and [there is] no other.

 

[Barbarian]

Did God have to force creation? Nope. Just His spoken word.

(Psalms 100:3) Know that the LORD, He [is] God; [It is] He [who] has made us, and not we ourselves; [We are] His people and the sheep of His pasture.

Since it doesn't say He had to force anything, I'm assuming this is your admission that He didn't.

Barbarian observes:
Did He "contrive" creation? Nope. God didn't have to figure anything out. He just created as He already knew everything that would be needed.

(Isaiah 45:9) " Woe to him who strives with his Maker! [Let] the potsherd [strive] with the potsherds of the earth! Shall the clay say to him who forms it, 'What are you making?' Or shall your handiwork [say,] 'He has no hands'?

Since it doesn't say God has to figure anything out, I'll assume this is your admission that He doesn't.

Isaiah 45:18) For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: "I [am] the LORD, and [there is] no other.

Good idea. Let God be God and do it His way.

 

[felix]

Did God have to force creation? Nope. Just His spoken word.

Only if you believe His spoken word can return to Him void by not forcing creation. Anyway, that is not the God of the Bible.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
Did God have to force creation? Nope. Just His spoken word.

Only if you believe His spoken word can return to Him void by not forcing creation.

I can believe Him, or I can believe you. Sorry about that.

Anyway, that is not the God of the Bible.

He's the God of the Christian Bible. Sorry about yours.

 

[felix]

Barbarian observes:
Did God have to force creation? Nope. Just His spoken word.

Only if you believe His spoken word can return to Him void by not forcing creation.

I can believe Him, or I can believe you. Sorry about that.

Anyway, that is not the God of the Bible.

He's the God of the Christian Bible. Sorry about yours.

[MENTION=30546]Barbarian[/MENTION], I think this is going like a silly fight rather than having any constructive use.

If God is USING nature and biology, then it is NOT evolution. PERIOD.
I think you have no idea what evolution is. Nor have any idea of the mechanisms of evolution.
Sorry. Will no longer reply to your post. Please read and learn what evolution is before posting.

 

[Barbarian]

If God is USING nature and biology, then it is NOT evolution. PERIOD.

I know you want us to think so, but the fact is, you've misunderstood the nature of God and His creation. Please do a little reading about this; St. Thomas Aquinas lays it out very well in Summa Theologica but there are also Protestant theologians who can explain it to you, as well.

I think you have no idea what evolution is.

I have studied it for over 40 years, and have taught it in classes and seminars. If you were wondering, biological evolution is a change in allele frequency in a population over time.

Nor have any idea of the mechanisms of evolution.

I have directly observed some of them. Perhaps you've been misled about what they actually do. Given your issues with God and His relationship to biology, you might want to read Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth Miller, a devoted Christian and a very capable biologist. Or if Catholics aren't your choice, you could read The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief by Francis Collins, an evangelical Protestant, and the director of the Human Genome Project.

If could be an opening to a richer and more rewarding relationship with God.