There's no way we can witness to unbelievers

[Heidi]

There's no way we can witness to non-Christians because most Christians are so confused about Christianity, they can't possibly pass it on to unbelievers!

Questions such as; Who or what is the Holy Spirit? Was Mary a virgin all her life? Who should we pray to? Can we trust the bible? "What is scripture? Can we trust it? Is Paul telling the truth? Was Jesus really born a virgin? :o

These are questions that unbelievers ask and since most Christians don't know the answers, then we don't have a prayer of witnessing to unbelievers! It's obious that most Christians here either don't trust the bible or know the bible. So they are passing on their own teachings instead of those who witnessed Christ. That's what atheists do. They make up their own ideas from their imaginations (which by definition, makes them imaginary), then pass those along until we have a totally different gospel.

This new gospel reads; "Mary, born immaculately from God the Father, never sinned, never had sex with her husband, pointed the way to the second sinless person, Jesus, who also never sinned. Mary, who was married to a man with at least 6 children from a previous marriage, then healed a great number of people so we can go to her in prayer to heal people today. Since Mary is divine, then we can erect statues of her and name our churches after her. And all the teachers of this church are as infallible as God is."

Sorry, folks but as you can see, this has absolutely nothing to do with the bible. But who cares? As long as people can play God themselves, what does it matter what is passed along as the truth? Why should we trust those who witnessed Christ's life when we can make up stories of our own? With stories like these, then unbelievers will be as confused as those who make up their own gospels are. :roll:

 

[Quath]

I think the problems nonbelievers have with Chistianity fall in several categories. You mentioned the disagreements on some beliefs, but it goes a lot further. Christians can't agree what hell is or why people go. They are not consistent whth how one is saved or the rules for it. They can't agree if there is a trinity or when Jesus is suppose to come back or how it will be.

Then there are the theological issues. Why does God not reveal himself in a more obvious manner? Why would an all powerful deity even care if he is worshiped? Why would he even get angry at what he made? Why would he be so evil as to create hell? Why doesn't he help people?

Then there are the issues with the supporters. One guy says that God hates fags and another says that God loves them. One says that Jesus supports the war in Iraq and another says he is against it. One religious fellow says that interracial marriage is against God and another says God is for it. So it just seems that people don't know God and just say that God supports their personal belief.

Then there are the comparitative religion issues. How is Christianity different from other religions? Other religions have saviors, good deeds, deities, miracles and history. To a Christian, this may be obvious, but to a nonbeliever, all religions tend to look the same.

Then there is the history. Christianity has been used to slow down science, justify wars and oppress people. When protestants just try to blame the Catholics, it doesn't sound convincing. Because if Catholics are to be ignored, then Christianity did not start until the 16th century, which is even more problematic. If you include Catholics, you have to explain how so many bad deeds can come from people following the Bible.

However, the biggest problem is that God does not resolve these issues. He lets the Muslims make up false stuff about him. He lets the Mormons do the same. He lets people get confused at to how people get to heaven. If God cared, he could easily reveal himself and help people get to heaven.

 

[thessalonian]

Well a good way to witness is not to twist and distort the beliefs of people whom you consider non-christian. Paul did not do that. You should take his lead with how he handled the Athenians and maybe you will be more successful. :-?

Why does one have to be divine if a statue is errected of them. That's kinda silly. :roll:

And all the teachers of this church are as infallible as God is."

Anyone know which Church she is talking about because I sure don't. :o

Mary, who was married to a man with at least 6 children from a previous marriage

What Church teaches that Joseph had 6 children from a previous marriage? I've heard it speculated but it's not a teaching in the Catholic Church.

 

[ttg]

Was Jesus really born a virgin?

Weren't we all?

And why do I find this laughably ironic that Heidi would make a post about the difficulty of witnessing to non-believers?

 

[thessalonian]

Was Jesus really born a virgin?

:smt044

I missed that one. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. :smt044 :smt030

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

There's no way we can witness to non-Christians because most Christians are so confused about Christianity, they can't possibly pass it on to unbelievers!

2Cr 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Cr 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

I believe it is almost totally worthless to try to witness to someone that you have not prayed for. We must pray that the blindness be removed from there minds. Then we must pray for something to be set in front of them to see. Of course there is a chance that now and then we witness to people that someone else has prayed for.
I would never attempt to speak to someone about the Lord without first speaking to the Lord about them. I ask the Lord to send me. When He puts someone on my heart, I ask the Lord all kinds of questions about the person, then I ask what He would like for me to say or do to reach them. Too often the church is giving blankets to hungry people and food to cold people. Then we wonder why we are not received well. We need to identify the need, then meet the need. Praying the entire time.

 

[golfjack]

reply

It is also good to pray in your Blood Box, (Corporate prayer). If one does not know what to pray, then pray in the Spirit. A visiting Evangelist always wants praise, worship, and prayer before he preaches. Actually, we should pray unceasingly. In other words, be ready to pray, even if you wake up from a sound sleep in the middle of the night. You would be surprised how effectual prayer is when leading someone to Christ.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[Vic C.]

All I care to say to the OP is this:

1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Read it in it's entire context please.

 

[Heidi]

All I care to say to the OP is this:

1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Read it in it's entire context please.

But that doesn't give people an excuse to willfully contradict Matthew 1:25, elevate Mary to a God-like status by making her sinless, and make a mockery of Christ's words by paying as much homage to her mother as they do to God. There's no excuse to pervert the word of God like that. :evil:

 

[stovebolts]

I've got an idea...
What if we used this passage as an example on how to treat each other, instead of as a means to justify our actions?

1 Corinthians 4:12 We do hard work, toiling with our own hands. When we are verbally abused, we respond with a blessing, when persecuted, we endure, 4:13 when people lie about us, we answer in a friendly manner. We are the world’s dirt and scum, even now.


4:14 I am not writing these things to shame you, but to correct you as my dear children. 4:15 For though you may have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, because I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. 4:16 I encourage you, then, be imitators of me. 4:17 For this reason, I have sent Timothy to you, who is my dear and faithful son in the Lord. He will remind you of my ways in Christ,as I teach them everywhere in every church. 4:18 Some have become arrogant,as if I were not coming to you. 4:19 But I will come to you soon, if the Lord is willing, and I will find out not only the talk of these arrogant people, but also their power. 4:20 For the kingdom of God is demonstrated not in idle talk but with power. 4:21 What do you want? Shall I come to you with a rod of discipline or with love and a spirit of gentleness?

Personally, I prefer gentlness...

 

[thessalonian]

God-like status by making her sinless

Um excuse me but man was made in the image and likeness of God if you've read genesis so there should be things in us that are God-like. Mary's just happens to be that she was like God in that she was sinless in this life. That however does not make her anywhere close to God. Adam and Eve were sinless in the garden and they were not anywhere near God so how should sinlessness make a human anywhere close to God? It's just bad logic. By the way when we are resurrected with our bodies we will be sinless. Will we be God-like? of course. Will we be anywhere near God's? No.

Why are you so against God doing what he had already shown he could do. That is create sinless people. The only difference in this case is he gave her the grace to remain sinless and she accepted that grace. That does not make her God. It does not deny her need for God to save her. He did, by his grace. What is so wrong with God creating a sinless mother for his sinless son. Why does that make you so angry? :roll:

Think about it.

 

[MrVersatile48]

Hi Guys!

Amazingly moving OP etc, Heidi!

Stove really struck a chord just now too 8-)

I honestly got something positive from each post - even Thess! :

All thru this thread, I was reminded of a real genius Bible College Prof - with the rare gift of instant & total recall - talk @ where Galatians said that it was 'when the time had fully come' that Jesus came

There was as much religious confusion then as there is in this lead-up to His return

Also all thru this thread, I've heard echoing in my mind the superb musical setting - from 'Yesterday, Today, Forever' - "We shall conquer by the blood of the Lamb - we shall conquer by the word of our mouth - we shall conquer as we love not our lives unto death!"

Echoing 1/2 posts here, as a Bible College grad son of a Bible College grad, I often pray, "Lord, I don't want to turn to a part of your Word that I know subconsciously happens to fit my thought patterns: I want to know Your will & purpose for today, I want to know that You are speaking to me heart to heart"

Last night, the Life Application Study Bible that I keep by what we Brits euphemistically call the throne, or the seat of learning, kinda fell open @ a character study of Jeremiah: famous as 'the weeping prophet'

It made the point that humans measure success by degree of response/approval from people, & said that, by human standards, he was a total failure

But in God's eyes, his 40 years of preaching faithfully the messages God gave, though met only by human rejection, mockery & persecution, were a great success because of his faithfulness, despite the emotional rollercoaster wringer he went thru

Following the Solid Rock of Christ, not the quicksand of human feelings, is a vital message for us all

Similarly Noah, while building a huge Ark on dry land, preached 40 years without a single convert: only his family, (& the animals that God had caused to come to him) entered the Ark & were saved from the Flood

Again, it's our faithfulness to Him that God values most

The messages God gave Jeremiah to deliver made much of the picture of God's covenant with His people as a marriage relationship & called them back from whoring after idols & false gods

I came in to post 2 contrasting articles elsewhere, but this 1st one, @ materialsm, fits here too:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/01092006/140/m ... -want.html

2nd too:-

This feature @ missions moved me so much, as my mom graduated Toronto Bible College before WW2 & stayed faithfully praying daily for God to bless that city, so its part in missions history here just so honors her labor in prayer for God's work worldwide to be blessed thru it:-

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... 9.100.html

OK - a song to close... 8-)

altogether now, 1/2/3....

"When the road is rough & steep,
Fix your eyes upon Jesus!

He alone has power to keep
Fix your eyes upon Him!

Jesus is a Faithful Friend
One on Whom you can depend

He is faithful to the end:
Fix your eyes upon Him!"

God bless!

Ian

 

[thessalonian]

Good post stove. Something I will work on.

 

[MrVersatile48]

I just realised that I was typing my last post here while you were typing this: I was not referring to this one as positive, though it does have 1/2 positive things in it, so I'll just reply in bold between points

God-like status by making her sinless

Um excuse me but man was made in the image and likeness of God if you've read genesis so there should be things in us that are God-like.

Yes, but since the fall into sin @ Genesis 3, all humans are born with a sinful nature, as Romans 3 etc expound in detail

Mary's just happens to be that she was like God in that she was sinless in this life.

No she wasn't: I know from the early anglo-catholic altar boy days, which turned me atheist for 2/3 years, that you know the Magnificat, which quotes where Mary said, in the Bible, 'My soul magnifies the Lord & my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour' - only a sinner needs a Saviour, & Jesus, the God-man, is the only sinless person who has ever lived: that's why only He could pay the penalty for every sin ever committed, & why Mary is NOT 'co-redemptrix' as the blasphemous RC catechism falsely claims

That however does not make her anywhere close to God. Adam and Eve were sinless in the garden

It was in the Garden of Eden that Satan, the serpent, got them to choose selfish ambition & sin against God - Genesis 3

Do I have to crack Sir Hiss jokes again? :roll:

quote]

Oh..OK...

He was the snake in the Robin Hood cartoon who coiled round Maid Marian, hypnotised her with his strobed eyes & sang,

"Trus-s-s-st in me...

Jus-s-st in me.."

The way popes, cardinals & all other false prophets do

As the Bible says, "Satan masquerades as an angel of light & so do his messengers"

The inserts answered the rest of your points

Must go!

Ian

 

[golfjack]

reply

Couldn't agree with you more Mversi. Everyone has to be Born Again to enter into God's rest. When a child is born, he has a problem in the heart or spirit condition. Jesus said it well in Mark 7:21-23. Outwardly, we may be like a perfect polished apple,, but without Christ, we are like unto whited sepulchres ( Matt. 23:27). To me, Catholic Thelogy is all twisted and distorted to the point that when one opens their eyes to the truth of God's Word, it will fall flat on its face. Of course Mary had the nature of sin, and she needed the Saviour to redeem her, just like anyone else.


May God bless, golfjack

 

[thessalonian]

Oh..OK...

He was the snake in the Robin Hood cartoon who coiled round Maid Marian, hypnotised her with his strobed eyes & sang,

"Trus-s-s-st in me...

Jus-s-st in me.."

The way popes, cardinals & all other false prophets do

Can you give me one quote from any pope, bishop, or cardinal in which he says the words you have put in his mouth. Thank you.

 

[Vic C.]

Personally, I prefer gentlness...

Jeff, I agree with you. Though as long as some here remain in the flesh and post from the flesh, they just won't get it.

This reminds me of the lyrics from Rebecca St. James' song "Pray". Allow me:

Jesus I am broken now
Before You I fall
I lay me down
All I want is You, my all

I cry out from the ashes
Burned with sin and shame
I ask You Lord to make me whole again

Chorus
For You say if I will come and will
Pray for You
There's forgiveness when I
turn from me and pray
For You say if I will come and will
pray to You
You hear me and heal me when I pray

Your ways are not my own
But I long for them to be
So this what I pray
One with You You'll make me

Melt me away 'til only You remain

Chorus

Jesus I am broken now-before You
Take me I am Yours

Chorus

 

[Dave...]

We preach a simple message according to the truth of God's Word, that is what a successful evangelist does. We don't convert people, we simply preach the truth. Those who are His will not listen to the lies, they will follow the truth because they are His. Those who are not His will not hear the truth no matter how it is presented, those who are His will hear it.

Some people can be put in the best learning environment, and still get 99% of it wrong every time. While others can be put in the worst learning environment, and if there is a truth to be filtered from all the lies, they will usually find it. There's a reason for this.

 

[stovebolts]

Great song Vic.

Ya know, I still strugle at times with temptation... I know that I can be a real jerk while enjoying the hunt, the thrashing and the down and out belittlement of others under what I am learning is a false pretense for Christ.

Anyway... just thought I'd throw out my weakness... God aint done with me yet!

Take care

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Um excuse me but man was made in the image and likeness of God if you've read genesis so there should be things in us that are God-like.

Adam was created in the image and likeness of God. Adam fell. We are created in the image of Adam. Hence the need to be born again. Once born again, we are called to conform to the image of Christ.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.