Yes
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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This is how it is... Period!
- Thread starter Willie T
- Start date
- Jul 3, 2014
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- #42
Of course, you are correct................ But, don't you see that this, specifically, is just what Edward was saying it not the way to read the Bible. That he is trying to get to where he reads it literally.
I commend that. It's good to try to do.
But even the most staunchly dogmatic of us has to openly admit that the Bible cannot be read that way. ... AND, the saddest part of this is that we all seem to say that while WE say some things need to be somehow "seen with common sense"...... we stubbornly refuse to accept that where the OTHER GUY says just about the same thing could possibly have any creditability, at all
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- Jul 3, 2014
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- #43
Now.......... if you actually seek to know truth (but ONLY if you do) go look at the rest of the passages that address "The Wrath of God". As much as we might prefer to dig our heels in, and say it always means the same thing, when we read each of the passages, we find that is just not true.
But, of course, if we don't go read, it will ALWAYS mean only what we decide it means rather than what it meant in each of the various times it was used in the Bible.
Deborah13
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When I read a difficult scripture like this one, I turn to the original language, this one in the Greek.
G3404 -
detest - nope that would contradict other things both Jesus and Paul said.
love less - love less makes sense to me, love my parents less than I love the Lord, I regard the Lord and His commands above my parents
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
Vine's - (c) of relative preference for one thing over another, by way of expressing either aversion from, or disregard for, the claims of one person or thing relatively to those of another, Mat 6:24; and Luk 16:13, as to the impossibility of serving two masters; Luk 14:26, as to the claims of parents relatively to those of Christ; Jhn 12:25, of disregard for one's life relatively to the claims of Christ; Eph 5:29, negatively, of one's flesh, i.e. of one's own, and therefore a man's wife as one with him.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G3404&t=KJV
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If you do not read the Bible literally and how it is intended then how do you read it?You are then not interpreting the message God wants to relay to you.You stand taking a verse and giving it the meaning that you want it to have.That is kind of dangerous.Revelation 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book
- Jul 3, 2014
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- #46
Ok. Let's go for specific examples. What is Sheol?
- Mar 11, 2014
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martin luther the founder of modern Protestantism says its a grave. I guess that makes us all catholics as we would be sons and daughters of the a heretic.
- Nov 23, 2012
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It's good that you do that.
But what if you had no resources for the Greek, ever!?
What would you do?
In the OT of Hebrew Scripture Sheol was the "place of the dead" or unbelievers souls went after they died.The NT word for Sheol is hades.So Hades is just a newer word for Sheol.It is the place that the unbelievers souls go now.It is sort of a waiting room where they are kept into they go to the White Throne judgment.Does that make sense?
Deborah13
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I've heard people use this verse to say that if anyone takes away from the whole Bible.....in order to condemn translations that are not KJV.
But that's not what it says.
1Co_15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual
If people are taking a verse and making it what ever they want and not taking it as God intended that is not good.Then why did God relay the Bible in the words that it is?
This segment of the TOS has been very helpful to me... i believe it fits nicely into the PO
2.4: . . .. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.
2.4: . . .. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.
May I ask if that pertains to me and why?
jeff77
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- Dec 27, 2012
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For scripture like John 14:6. "I am the way and the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me". That is the way it is period.
How about Revelation 22:2 What are leaves of the tree needed for the healing of the nations for? Can this be taken literally? I thought there is no need for healing in the kingdom.
How about Revelation 22:2 What are leaves of the tree needed for the healing of the nations for? Can this be taken literally? I thought there is no need for healing in the kingdom.
Deborah13
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Not so long ago I didn't. I had Matthew Henry's commentary and Unger's Bible Dictionary. If I hadn't had those I would have had to rely on the interpretations of just my pastors. Yes, the Holy Spirit teaches us through the Word but there are times when the English language just doesn't get the job done, especially old English. I'm not the brightest or the most spiritual.
Nope Kathi not directed at you...
those lines helped me face some facts, I am not he same Christian i was in 1967 . nor am i the saved child of 1946 .... Something as dumb on my part as deeply believing a smoker was/is not saved until i was about 40 years old... I hope i am no longer taking baby steps with our Lord ... nor being the rebellious teenager being drug along by Him.. I pray i can receive the meat of the Word... Understanding the message for me might not be exactly , the same as the message for another..while still in the confines of the Word of God.
those lines helped me face some facts, I am not he same Christian i was in 1967 . nor am i the saved child of 1946 .... Something as dumb on my part as deeply believing a smoker was/is not saved until i was about 40 years old... I hope i am no longer taking baby steps with our Lord ... nor being the rebellious teenager being drug along by Him.. I pray i can receive the meat of the Word... Understanding the message for me might not be exactly , the same as the message for another..while still in the confines of the Word of God.
- Jul 3, 2014
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- #58
Yet, does not the venerable KJV (and some others) just simply call it "Hell"? And that same word' Hell" keeps getting used with little regard to what, specifically, is being referenced in that passage, does it not?In the OT of Hebrew Scripture Sheol was the "place of the dead" or unbelievers souls went after they died.The NT word for Sheol is hades.So Hades is just a newer word for Hades.It is the place that the unbelievers souls go now.It is sort of a waiting room where they are kept into they go to the White Throne judgment.Does that make sense?
Of course it does. So, here we are, running around calling all of it, "Hell" when we literally read one of those translations...... not really being too accurate at all.
And, no, we can't use the "original language" ploy, and go look up a number in a book. Because the original languages (all four of them) have to be pretty deeply understood in a much more scholarly sense than 99% of us do, since context and idioms come into play all through those languages.
Frankly, most of us have little alternative beyond depending upon gleaning what we can from various commentaries and other sources, to get a sense of the true original content. The very first thing I do is read a passage in at least a half dozen different translations.... often, as many as twenty, or so..... THEN I start researching all sorts of other sources. Some make sense to me, some don't..... but often, only a direct, literal reading of one version of the Bible can leave some wondering.
But, each of us gets to believe what we want, as we see it, so not much of this discussion matters much anyway. I'll do and believe what I feel is right, and so will each of us. We may all end up having it all wrong.
Deborah13
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No one should do that. imo, we should always search for the intent of God's words, not what we want it to say. Some of it is very plain, some is not.
When I read the commentaries of great men of God, often I will see them saying things like,
There's this interpretation, but Dr. So and So says this about it, but this is how I interpret it. Even they leave room for the fact that they may be incorrect.
Makes me smile, I don't feel so dumb, God bless them for that.