This is really going to make a lot of folks mad.....

[bornagainpagan]

Is it possible that Paul (or his intellectual descendents) borrowed from the Mystery Religion of Mithraism in creating their own brand of Christianity? If Paul was all things to all people, did he use Mithraic concepts to promote Christian ideas? Read the following, then do the research to verify, and…….think for yourself. How many practices that are described below as practiced in Mithraism can be found in today’s Christian Church?

I hope the following links will be of assistance in answering this question... or rather questions....

WAS THE NEW TESTAMENT INFLUENCED BY PAGAN RELIGIONS?

WAS THE NEW TESTAMENT INFLUENCED BY PAGAN PHILOSOPHY?

Also worth looking at...

IS THE BIBLE PLAGARIZED FROM OTHER RELIGIONS?
Come Let Us Reason Together Ministries

DID CHRISTIANITY STEAL FROM MITHRAISM?
Come Let Us Reason Together Ministries

PAUL AND THE MYSTERY RELIGIONS
Don Closson (Probe Ministries)

CHRISTIANITY, THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST AND THE MYSTERY RELIGIONS
Dr. John Ankerberg, Dr. John Weldon (Ankerberg Theological Institute)

Hope this is of help/interest to some...

 

[Imagican]

BAP,

What a unique name; 'Jean-Luc deVere' Exactly what does it stand for?

 

[Georges]

So your thesis is quote unquote that - Paul willingly or unwittingly introduced Pagan, Mithraic, Zoroastrian or Gnostic thought into the Church through his teachings, which can (only indirectly) be related to other messaniac systems of thought found within the timeframe and context of the Mediteraean and Asiatic people. (You forgot the Essene's, but I'm assuming you would include them, since the had many of these's idea's.)

I'm not sure if it's my thesis......I'd like to believe that Paul is a straight arrow.....To me he doesn't appear to toe the Jerusalem line...I'm just trying to find out why.....He appears to be a Jew with the Jews...and a Gentile with the Gentiles....if he is using teaching that either Jesus and the Jerusalem Chruch doesn't agree with, then I want to know why...If it is to win Gentiles through deception, I don't think that's right....I'm still studying the situation.

Yes, Paul practiced some of these things, like abstinance. You, who burn burn after one another in lust should marry but as for me ... Could be clearly seen as Essene. However, though there's supposition to the point where's the direct correlation. Not just a supposed body of thought. Maybe the Lord intented to use these things to lead Jews from a strict observance of the Law and Gentiles to a more concrete and less mystical interpretation of the Messiah?


I think that when Paul was acting like a "Jew", he practiced Torah, but preached (rightly so) against the man made middle wall Laws. The Messianic Jews (James, Peter) practiced Torah...Now, I think these boys knew the mind of Jesus better than Paul (who never met Jesus). I think the business with Paul is not black and white...It may be a shade of gray somewhere in between....Still it is the issue with the differences between Jerusalem and Paul that is to me, the biggest red flag.

It says in the Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous no man will die: yet for a good man some would even dare to die. I could elaborate on Nazerite thought. Discuss the element of the Kenite-Scribe influence, but this is a to lengthy and to abstract a discussion.

Would be interesting in another thread however....

Mark 12:14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
Mark 12:16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
Mark 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

 

[Georges]

Yep, and you know that Paul got 'paid' really well for his teachings. I seem to remember him pointing out that he even used what little money that he made as a tentmaker to support his ministry, up until he was murdered for Christ.


Now, George, I ask this: What possible purpose did it 'serve' Paul to follow Christ other than him 'actually' having the vision you make light of?

IMO....I think Paul may have been setting himself up as the leader of the Gentile churches. James was the leader of the Messianic Christian church...I think Paul was possibly setting himself up to be the leader of Gentile Church.

He was NEVER considered any kind of leader in the sense that we know the Popes' as or even our modern day pastors.

Sure he was, of course it was still primitive....Paul was setting up a Gentile Church hierarchy......He was providing the basic building blocks in the pastoral epistles...Who was going to lead the Gentile Church.....Paul was the unspoken, undisputed, absolute leader....what he said, went.

When one takes into consideration that Paul was an educated, (probably reasonably wealthy),

A leather worker wealthy? If he was wealthy, howcome he worked as a policeman for the High Priest? He said he was educated under Gamaliel...Gamaliel the most famous pharisic teacher...yet in his words and actions he doesn't appear to have been trained in classic pharicism. It is also theorized that Paul got his money, to procure his Roman citizenship from the offerings that the Gentile church sent with him to Jerusalem. Ever wonder why Paul han't used the "Roman Citizen Card" on other occasions than when he did?

Jew who was persecuting Christians previous to 'meeting Christ', why do you figure he changed his mind and started spreading the Word?

Opportunity to became "Big".....He wasn't going to do it under Gamaliel, or the High Priest.....here was his chance to shine.....

George, you are MORE than welcome to 'follow Torah', but please, if you don't believe in the Bible, just say so and be done with it. Torah IS to be followed, just NOT for the reason/s that most offer.

I believe what the Bible OT says, very much, and it is very much applicable today. Thank you very much for your permission to follow Torah . The NT however isn't a pure text...bits and parts have been edited since it's beginning. I didn't make that up....it's fact.

 

[bornagainpagan]

BAP,

What a unique name; 'Jean-Luc deVere' Exactly what does it stand for?

Huh?

The 'bornagainpagan' or the 'Jean-Luc deVere'? :o

'Bornagainpagan' comes from the fact I was a practicing pagan before coming to Christ... hence... I'm a 'Born Again (ex)Pagan'...

and 'Jean-Luc deVere'... Well that's just what it says on my Driver's Licence... :