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This world belongs to us

Brother Mike said:
No, God is not in control. If God where in control things would look like they will when Jesus returns. You keep using the word Refute, but Satan is the god of this Word, He is in control of the Worlds systems and governments, not our Father. Satan gets that control through men who God gave the earth to us.

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
(Eph 1:19-21)

This scripture does not refute that. We sit in heavenly with Christ Jesus, who is also far above principality and all power. Unless we the body exercise our dominion, then nothing gets done about wickedness or the devil. Since we have a flesh body, we have the right to operate under the authority of Jesus, and His Anointing, which the Anti-Christ denies that the Anointing is in Flesh, or Christ came in the flesh.

I am trying to be patient with you, I'll see how that works out.

Mike.
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Brother Mike,

The biblical facts are contrary to what you are espousing. God is in control. We know from these Scriptures (emphases demonstrate God's control of all people and nations):
  • 2 Chronicles 20:6 (ESV), 'and said, “O Lord, God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none is able to withstand you"'.
  • Daniel 4:17 (ESV), 'The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men’.
  • Daniel 4:25-26 (ESV), 'that you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. You shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and you shall be wet with the dew of heaven, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will. 26 And as it was commanded to leave the stump of the roots of the tree, your kingdom shall be confirmed for you from the time that you know that Heaven rules'.
  • Eph 1:11 (ESV), 'In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will'.
  • Eph 1:20-22 (ESV), 'that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church'.
Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Brother Mike,

The biblical facts are contrary to what you are espousing. God is in control. We know from these Scriptures (emphases demonstrate God's control of all people and nations):
  • 2 Chronicles 20:6 (ESV), 'and said, “O Lord, God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none is able to withstand you"'.
  • Daniel 4:17 (ESV), 'The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men’.
  • Daniel 4:25-26 (ESV), 'that you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. You shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and you shall be wet with the dew of heaven, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will. 26 And as it was commanded to leave the stump of the roots of the tree, your kingdom shall be confirmed for you from the time that you know that Heaven rules'.
  • Eph 1:11 (ESV), 'In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will'.
  • Eph 1:20-22 (ESV), 'that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church'.
Oz
Click to expand...

He works all things according to his will for those that "LOVE GOD" and called according to his Purpose. Those foreknown, are predestined, to be conformed to the image of his son.

The heart of the King is in the Lord's hand and He turns it whatsoever He will, Rom 13 tells us the authorities are ministers of flame, to punish those that don't do good.

Being seated in heavenly places in Christ, all things are under our feet, where we are at, the Rule of God is at "Kingdom"

None of this denotes God is in control though of everyone. God's will is not getting done in most people's lives.

Jesus did not say Pray thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, because God's will was getting down perfectly here on earth.
God is in control where we will allow God to be in control. It's our choice, Not God's, and God gets no blame.

God said you choose, death or life, to be blessed or cursed. That is our part.

Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.
(Psa 78:41)
Num_14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

You can't tell me it's God being in control and his Perfect will when a whole nation is so full of unbelief that He had to break a promise to them. God does not break promises if man does what God says do, and it's no easy thing for God to have to take back His word to someone on account they won't listen.

You need to look at ALL the scriptures.

Mike.
 
Satan is no longer ruler of this world:

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. (ESV)

Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. (ESV)

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
Rom 13:4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.
Rom 13:5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
Rom 13:6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. (ESV)

1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. (ESV)

Sure looks like God is in control.
 
Free said:
Satan is no longer ruler of this world:

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. (ESV)

Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. (ESV)

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
Rom 13:4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.
Rom 13:5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
Rom 13:6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. (ESV)

1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. (ESV)

Sure looks like God is in control.
Click to expand...

Well, if God is in Control, then you go tell him that He is doing a lousy job of things down here.

Or, reexamine the scripture you used. Rom 13 is about the governing authority, and though they be ministers to punish the wicked, the system is far from being fair or right. It serves it's purpose, and I believe a innocent person is let free eventually, and sooner if they trust God. I have seen it over and over.

Are all enemies under the feet of Jesus? Has the last enemy been destroyed? Are we still going to die someday?

Is everything happening here on earth the Will of God, and shows God is in control? Only hard core Calvinist believe this.

Use that Hermenutcakes or whatever you call it free, there has to be some use for it.
 
Brother Mike said:
Well, if God is in Control, then you go tell him that He is doing a lousy job of things down here.

Or, reexamine the scripture you used. Rom 13 is about the governing authority, and though they be ministers to punish the wicked, the system is far from being fair or right. It serves it's purpose, and I believe a innocent person is let free eventually, and sooner if they trust God. I have seen it over and over.

Are all enemies under the feet of Jesus? Has the last enemy been destroyed? Are we still going to die someday?

Is everything happening here on earth the Will of God, and shows God is in control? Only hard core Calvinist believe this.
Click to expand...
The passages I have given are clear that God is in control:

Jesus clearly states that the ruler of this world is judged and about to be cast out; Romans 13 shows that governing authorities are appointed by God and are his servants; 1 Cor 15 shows that Jesus is in control now, and that he will reign until all enemies are under his feet--"until" means that he is reigning now.

You are presuming that for God to be in control that everything must be like it is supposed to be after Christ's return, but that is not biblical. The Kingdom of God broke through at Jesus's resurrection and his followers are to be doing his kingdom work to further his kingdom on earth. All things will be set right one day but that in no way means that God is not in control now.

Brother Mike said:
Use that Hermenutcakes or whatever you call it free, there has to be some use for it.
Click to expand...
Grow up.
 
For what it's worth, I do believe God reigns over this world, there's no mistake about that. The earth is His foot stool. But this world is a world of sorrows. Sometimes He appoints wise and upright leaders, other times He gives us pharoah. It is His will, not for us to spend much time discerning. All we can do is say yes, Lord, and count all of His choices as wisdom and life towards our salvation.

As the amilennialists would say, God's Kingdom is in the very world as we speak. He reigns from on high. But while in this world He did not promise it would all be wonderful, not until New Jerusalem. He only promised that He would be with us.
 
Free said:
The passages I have given are clear that God is in control:

Jesus clearly states that the ruler of this world is judged and about to be cast out; Romans 13 shows that governing authorities are appointed by God and are his servants; 1 Cor 15 shows that Jesus is in control now, and that he will reign until all enemies are under his feet--"until" means that he is reigning now.

You are presuming that for God to be in control that everything must be like it is supposed to be after Christ's return, but that is not biblical. The Kingdom of God broke through at Jesus's resurrection and his followers are to be doing his kingdom work to further his kingdom on earth. All things will be set right one day but that in no way means that God is not in control now.


Grow up.
Click to expand...

Let's talk about that then Free, God controlling everything like after Christ's (Jesus) return. How do you reconcile things getting set right, Jesus in all authority and we reigning as Kings and Priest with him, with the same type of control that is happening now?

The only control I see is when we step up, and take authority over the devil and get people along the path of doing the will of the Lord.

Either God is in complete control, or the body of Christ has to keep working until Jesus shows up.

I made a post called "God controls your life -Mostly" I show scriptures that prove God is more involved and in control of our personal lives, not just globally, which seems to be what we are agreeing on here.
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/god-controls-your-life-mostly.60543/
 
Brother Mike said:
Well, if God is in Control, then you go tell him that He is doing a lousy job of things down here.

Or, reexamine the scripture you used. Rom 13 is about the governing authority, and though they be ministers to punish the wicked, the system is far from being fair or right. It serves it's purpose, and I believe a innocent person is let free eventually, and sooner if they trust God. I have seen it over and over.

Are all enemies under the feet of Jesus? Has the last enemy been destroyed? Are we still going to die someday?

Is everything happening here on earth the Will of God, and shows God is in control? Only hard core Calvinist believe this.

Use that Hermenutcakes or whatever you call it free, there has to be some use for it.
Click to expand...
may be god allows evil so that some will come to Christ. just maybe that is why he said in genesis cursed is the ground for your sakes. maybe if god did reign like you say that wouldnt be a church, it would have been the 11 plus who believed at the time Christ died. if god has no power to answer prayer and satan is all that then why do even pray?
 
God allows evil for the strengthening of the saints, all that is intended for evil God can turn to good. The Christian life is not built from slumbering, it's forged and tested in fire, sharpened by iron, pruned to be made fruitful, tested for its worth...
 
Blake said:
God allows evil for the strengthening of the saints, all that is intended for evil God can turn to good. The Christian life is not built from slumbering, it's forged and tested in fire, sharpened by iron, pruned to be made fruitful, tested for its worth...
Click to expand...
that too. satan never had any control of earth, all that God allows is only what satan can do.
 
jasonc said:
that too. satan never had any control of earth, all that God allows is only what satan can do.
Click to expand...
Like when Satan had asked God to remove His hedge from Job. God was still in control. It's just that Satan hadn't counted on Job having his OWN hedge of protection built around himself. That'll preach all day!

Similarly here on earth, God reigns, and sometimes He removes His protection from us -- whether for our testing, or because our sins have hidden His face from us. But since God indeed reigns from on high, we have the grace given unto us and the ability to be more than conquerers in the Spirit of God.
 
Brother Mike said:
He works all things according to his will for those that "LOVE GOD" and called according to his Purpose. Those foreknown, are predestined, to be conformed to the image of his son.

The heart of the King is in the Lord's hand and He turns it whatsoever He will, Rom 13 tells us the authorities are ministers of flame, to punish those that don't do good.

Being seated in heavenly places in Christ, all things are under our feet, where we are at, the Rule of God is at "Kingdom"

None of this denotes God is in control though of everyone. God's will is not getting done in most people's lives.

Jesus did not say Pray thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, because God's will was getting down perfectly here on earth.
God is in control where we will allow God to be in control. It's our choice, Not God's, and God gets no blame.

God said you choose, death or life, to be blessed or cursed. That is our part.

Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.
(Psa 78:41)
Num_14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

You can't tell me it's God being in control and his Perfect will when a whole nation is so full of unbelief that He had to break a promise to them. God does not break promises if man does what God says do, and it's no easy thing for God to have to take back His word to someone on account they won't listen.

You need to look at ALL the scriptures.

Mike.
Click to expand...

2 Chronicles 20:6 (ESV), 'and said, “O Lord, God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none is able to withstand you"'.
 
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