Those that will NOT inherit the kingdom of God .....

[Tina]

In your opinion, what is the "main Body of Christ" ?

My opinion does not count. Let rather see what God sees as the body of Christ.

Would you agree, that we see our walk as a walk WITH God? So the Bible says:
Amo 3:3 Shall two walk together, except they have agreed?
So it seems if we want to walk with God, we must agree with Him. So the body of Christ are those who are in agreement with the Word of God.

Of course I know that. I know that the Body of Christ are those who are in agreement with the Word of God. But in your earlier post, this is what you said :

"The Biblical word that we know as heresy, does not mean "to preach something other than the gospel" it means so have splinter groups that are not part of the main Body of Christ,, because they disagree with each other. So they form their own church or ........denomination.That is heresy. Why? Because we divide that which cannot be divided: Christ."

So are you suggesting that denominations are not "body of Christ" just because they disagree with each other ?

Are you assuming that ALL denominations are not in agreement with the Word of God, hence they are not part of the main Body of Christ ?

Just before these verses, this is what Paul said : " I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought."

How on earth is it ever possible to be "perfectly united in mind and thought" ? ....

When you agree with God , you are in unity of mind and thought. The Word of God is the only truth and when we add or subtract, we add our opinions and that causes divisions (denominations)

What makes you think that ALL denominations don't agree with God ?
Are you confusing not agreeing with each other with disagreeing with God ?
If you and I don't agree on some biblical issues, does it necessarily mean we disagree with God ?

You seemed to have a very warped and narrow view of denominations. Did it ever occur to you that these days, unlike the past, new churches spring up under various denominations because of different EMPHASIS on doctrines, not because of quarrels or disagreements ... ??

We are not allowed to do that. We are only to preach the gospel as we first received it from the Apostles through the Bible.

1Co 15:1 Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand,
1Co 15:2 by which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you, except ye believed in vain.

You will see that Paul mentions the fact that we can in fact believe in vain (contrary to what some denominations teach ) Can you see the little conditional word there : if

So if a denomination do not preach the truth exactly like Paul did, they might be believing in vain. Now I am sure that is something that no Christian would want, because it has a direct impact on our eternity.

Paul is preaching about the doctrine of Christ's death and resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15, which is the very foundation of Christianity. In this respect, of course I agree with you that if a church or denomination does not preach the truth exactly like Paul did, they might be believing in vain and thus risk losing their salvation. This foundational truth should never be compromised, and I know not of any TRUE Christian Church or denomination that compromised on this. My concern here is that you seem to assume that ALL denominations are straying from this foundational truth, hence they are not the "body of Christ". That's a wrong assumption. When I mentioned different EMPHASIS on doctrines, I meant issues like "God's grace" , "healing" , etc ....



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[Cornelius]

I know that my view seems extreme. But in reality its simple.I am in fact using the argument of Paul:

1Co 1:12 Now this I mean, that each one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized into the name of Paul?

The answer would be "No Christ is not divided"

But for us , we have divided Christ and now we are defending that division. Are we not? Also, to say that some things in the gospel are not as important as others are wrong. We cannot afford being divided on any issue. Paul tells us that this came when we listen to the lies of men Eph 4:14 that we may be no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error; Well this obviously is the case these days. We have been taken captive by the sleight of men, we are children in the faith, we are being tossed to and fro by the doctrines of men and we have formed denominations around those doctrines.

Surely you must admit that there is at least the possibility that this is the case, seeing that Paul warned against it, and we are seeing it in real life too?

We can see that one thing that we have done has caused this. We have in most denomination thrown out the five fold ministry and we teach everybody they are redundant. Strange thing is, that the pastor did not become redundant with the rest of the ,but somehow he survived this. We have now recreated the original church, telling God we will have it our way and that His way is no longer the correct way. We can deny this all we want, but the reality is clear for all to see.

Here is why we cannot grow up:

Eph 4:11 And he gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 till we all attain unto the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a fullgrown man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: (do you see any of this in the "church". Of course not )
Eph 4:14 that we may be no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error;

We cannot grow up, because we have no leadership. We have created our form of leadership and they are not capable of bringing us to maturity.

 

[Tina]

The Biblical word that we know as heresy, does not mean "to preach something other than the gospel" it means so have splinter groups that are not part of the main Body of Christ,, because they disagree with each other. So they form their own church or ........denomination.That is heresy. Why? Because we divide that which cannot be divided: Christ.

In today's context, what is the "MAIN Body of Christ" ... that all other bodies will be deemed "splinter groups" or "heresy" ?

Also, how is it ever possible not to disagree with each other ?
Disagreement is a global epidemic, how is it ever possible to eradicate it ?

Christians are not empowered with special robotic abilities to agree with one another about everything all the time.

 

[Cornelius]

In today's context, what is the "MAIN Body of Christ" ... that all other bodies will be deemed "splinter groups" or "heresy" ?

Who told us that we have a "today's context" ? Just because error is the norm, does not give us the right to make the Word adapt to us. We are the ones that must change.

Also, how is it ever possible not to disagree with each other ?

Many people are in agreement with the Word and as such agree with each other. Don't ever presume that God is not able to bring this to be. If we look at ourselves this is impossible, but you should ask if this is impossible for God? Of course not. He just want humble people, who are not out to build a kingdom of their own and have a following of their own. There are in fact many people around this globe that already agrees on what the Bible says. You will not find them in the denominations, unless the Lord has specifically told them to stay there for His purposes.

Disagreement is a global epidemic, how is it ever possible to eradicate it ?

That does not make it right and does not mean we must all submit to this epidemic. I am not willing. Are you? I am for unity and agreement and that is possible when we just read what the Word says without always insisting that we must "interpret" and see things our way. When God says turn the other cheek, He means turn the other cheek. But when we say something like that, you will ALWAYS get the "YES BUT Christians" who will insist to tell you why that does not always apply and why its not for them etc etc. They we will always have, but there MANY who have simply said: YES LORD. When God says turn the other cheek, they turn it. (That is a simple example, but more and more Christians are willing to walk more and more in submission to the whole Word these days .................and in this is ......agreement)

Christians are not empowered with special robotic abilities to agree with one another about everything all the time.

No but Christians have (or should have) the Spirit in them and that Spirit, if we truly submit to the Word, ALWAYS agrees with His own Word.

 

[Tina]

That does not make it right and does not mean we must all submit to this epidemic. I am not willing. Are you? I am for unity and agreement and that is possible when we just read what the Word says without always insisting that we must "interpret" and see things our way. When God says turn the other cheek, He means turn the other cheek. But when we say something like that, you will ALWAYS get the "YES BUT Christians" who will insist to tell you why that does not always apply and why its not for them etc etc. They we will always have, but there MANY who have simply said: YES LORD. When God says turn the other cheek, they turn it. (That is a simple example, but more and more Christians are willing to walk more and more in submission to the whole Word these days .................and in this is ......agreement)

I believe you must belong to a "church" or "denomination" of your own.
So don't preach to us about unity and agreement if you don't practice it yourself ! ...

Christians are not empowered with special robotic abilities to agree with one another about everything all the time.

No but Christians have (or should have) the Spirit in them and that Spirit, if we truly submit to the Word, ALWAYS agrees with His own Word.

Every church and denomination claim to have the Holy Spirit. The test of the Holy Spirit is not whether or not the church agrees with the Word, but by fruit of Spiritual Gifts that manifest through healings, deliverances, miracles, tongues, prophecies. spiritual revivals, salvations and such ... for if the Holy Spirit was absent in the church , such fruit will not be demonstrated.


:amen

 

[Cornelius]

I believe you must belong to a "church" or "denomination" of your own.
So don't preach to us about unity and agreement if you don't practice it yourself ![/color] ...

No I do not belong to any denomination.

Every church and denomination claim to have the Holy Spirit. The test of the Holy Spirit is not whether or not the church agrees with the Word, but by fruit of Spiritual Gifts that manifest through healings, deliverances, miracles, tongues, prophecies. spiritual revivals, salvations and such ... for if the Holy Spirit was absent in the church , such fruit will not be demonstrated.[/color]

I am not against the fruit and yes we shall know them by their fruit. Actually here is the fruit that we shall know them by and we have to be in agreement with the Word to manifest this:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control; against such there is no law

Now look at the next verse and you will see the condition there , for those who say they belong to the body of Christ.


Gal 5:24 And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts thereof.

Now when you find these people with this kind of fruit and you see that they have crucified the flesh and it passions and the lusts thereof............you have found the body of Christ .

 

[Tina]

No I do not belong to any denomination.

Non-denominational church is a denomination by itself .... :biglol

That you belong to a church of your own, whether it's in your home, village, club or building does not exclude you from being disunited from the rest of Christendom. Neither does having your own church means you are 100% right in following God and His Word, even if you self-profess it. There is simply NO such thing as a perfect church , but of course it's worse when a church rejects the fundamental truths about Biblical Christianity !



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[Cornelius]

No I do not belong to any denomination.

Non-denominational church is a denomination by itself .... :biglol

That you belong to a church of your own, whether it's in your home, village, club or building does not exclude you from being disunited from the rest of Christendom. Neither does having your own church means you are 100% right in following God and His Word, even if you self-profess it. There is simply NO such thing as a perfect church , but of course it's worse when a church rejects the fundamental truths about Biblical Christianity !



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Well that of course would be the way you see it which luckily is not the criteria that the Bible gives.Praise God, we can see that the Lord has unity in mind.

Joh 17:11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

You do know that they are ONE in the Word? and not one as "in the same body" ? They "walk together in agreement" Jesus is the manifestation of the unseen God.One does nothing without the Other.Total agreement. And Jesus prayed that we should be like that.

Now it depends if you can believe that Jesus's prayer would ever be answered by the Father.

What do you think ?

 

[Tina]

Well that of course would be the way you see it which luckily is not the criteria that the Bible gives.Praise God, we can see that the Lord has unity in mind.

Joh 17:11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

You do know that they are ONE in the Word? and not one as "in the same body" ? They "walk together in agreement" Jesus is the manifestation of the unseen God.One does nothing without the Other.Total agreement. And Jesus prayed that we should be like that.

Now it depends if you can believe that Jesus's prayer would ever be answered by the Father.

What do you think ?

As a matter of fact, I think the prayer is already answered. I don't see any true church or denomination not being ONE in the Word, for Jesus Himself was referring to only "believers".



:amen

 

[Cornelius]

Well that of course would be the way you see it which luckily is not the criteria that the Bible gives.Praise God, we can see that the Lord has unity in mind.

Joh 17:11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

You do know that they are ONE in the Word? and not one as "in the same body" ? They "walk together in agreement" Jesus is the manifestation of the unseen God.One does nothing without the Other.Total agreement. And Jesus prayed that we should be like that.

Now it depends if you can believe that Jesus's prayer would ever be answered by the Father.

What do you think ?

As a matter of fact, I think the prayer is already answered. I don't see any true church or denomination not being ONE in the Word, for Jesus Himself was referring to only "believers".



:amen

Well I am very happy for you I obviously do not live in such a place.

I am done with this thread

C

 

[justvisiting]

This is why I prefer strictly the KJV.
King James Bible - The Translators
Of the original 54 men chosen to translate the King James Bible, only 47 finished the more than seven-year project, which was governed by very strict rules of translation. The translators were scholarly men who were experts in the biblical languages, and they were convinced of the inerrancy and authority of Scripture. Dr. Henry M. Morris, President of the Institute for Creation Research, said of these men, "It is almost certain that no group of Bible scholars before or since has ever been as thoroughly fit for their task as was the King James Translation Team."

The planning of the translation project stipulated that the translators should be broken up into six panels, and each panel was given certain books of the Bible to translate. After the translations were done, a committee of 12-two translators from each of the six panels-reviewed the work based on a detailed set of guidelines that was established to ensure that the translators' personal eccentricities and political prejudices were not included in this new version.
Are you in this group? There are thousands of Christians that use Hebrew and Greek sources. To me unless you really understand the language properly it is easy to come up with bad translations. Why do you think they started out with 54 people... and those were all Hebrew and Greek scholars. Stick to the KJV.
By the way you are causing more problems with schisms by your definition of heresy than if you just took it at face value. I trust their translation over yours.