Thou Shall not Kill Or Murder

[Obadiah]

you must be a po-po.

LOL. Retired. It's that obvious, eh?

 

[jasonc]

LOL. Retired. It's that obvious, eh?

I have a lot of law enforcement training. you described what is the definition of lethal force and the justifaction for it. when all other options are exhausted or lethal force is presented. ie you respond to call and barely get out the car and the bad guy presents a gun, and you draw and he doesn't respond to your command.

 

[Free]

Yep, I agree. But since the word "ratsach" can be translated either way (although it's normally translated to murder or the equivalent), why not just say "murder" and avoid the confusion?

I certainly agree. My argument is really just for those who insist it has to say "kill". If they take it as a blanket statement, then they have some contradictions to solve, and the typical "God can do whatever he wants" is a cop-out.

 

[Deborah13]

A word search of the English word 'kill' in the KJV of the OT, shows that there are at least 4 different Hebrews words translated into English as 'kill'.
If one is serious about knowing what the OT says about it they could do the study by word, definition, and verse/s context.

imo
God did not change what He determines to be right and wrong moral behaviors. They are the same in the OT and the NT.

 

[jasonc]

A word search of the English word 'kill' in the KJV of the OT, shows that there are at least 4 different Hebrews words translated into English as 'kill'.
If one is serious about knowing what the OT says about it they could do the study by word, definition, and verse/s context.

imo
God did not change what He determines to be right and wrong moral behaviors. They are the same in the OT and the NT.

thanks, that is what I was trying to say. the cross takes care of the spiritual punishement for all sins.

 

[tacdon]

Where does God give this command to kill under the New Covenant?
.

Is all of the old testament invalid?

 

[Gary]

Where does God give this command to kill under the New Covenant?
.

Is all of the old testament invalid?

That's not the point.
.

 

[tacdon]

That's not the point.
.

Why is that not the point?

 

[YosefHayim]

Kill is a general word. It is correct to say if you murder someone you killed someone. So technically there is still no contradiction which ever word you use. The Hebrew word clearly means killing with malice aforethought. King Jimmy still stands strong.

It is more than a little hypocritical for the NIV English version to make a big deal out of the alleged difference between "to kill" and "to murder", but at the same time to make foreign language translations of the NIV that simply say "Do not KILL." The NIV Spanish version simply says: "No mates.", which clearly means "Do not KILL." and NOT "Do not murder."- La Santa Biblia, Nueva Versión Internacional® NVI® Copyright © 1999. Likewise the NIV Portuguese version simply say "Do not KILL." - “Não matarás." - Nova Versão Internacional NVI® Copyright © 1999

http://brandplucked.webs.com/exodus2013notkill.htm​

 

[Gary]

Why is that not the point?

Are you under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?
.

 

[tacdon]

Are you under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?
.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[Gary]

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That's not what I asked.

Here it is again in case you missed it.

Are you under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?

.

 

[tacdon]

That's not what I asked.

Here it is again in case you missed it.

.

First, explain to me what parts of the old covenant became obsolete and what did we keep? There is more than one old covenant as well, Abraham didn't live under the Mosaic covenant.

 

[Gary]

First, explain to me what parts of the old covenant became obsolete and what did we keep? There is more than one old covenant as well, Abraham didn't live under the Mosaic covenant.

Are you presently living under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?

It's not a trick question. It's either one or the other.
.

 

[tacdon]

Are you presently living under the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?

It's not a trick question. It's either one or the other.
.

It's obvious that were living under the new covenant, but the entire old covenant has not become obsolete.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[Gary]

It's obvious that were living under the new covenant, but the entire old covenant has not become obsolete.

Hebrews 8
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
.

 

[tacdon]

Hebrews 8
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
.

How do you respond to this verse then?

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[Gary]

How do you respond to this verse then?

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It's true.
.

 

[Rance-Adams]

rome had the death penalty for crimes commited against the state. did the church teach that the Christian whom killed was exempt from such law? ie murder, etc that were lawfully and moral under god. again what is the sword given to the government for? to act with the wrath of god against those who do evil. while rome was corrupt. paul did teach that one ought to obey her laws. if rome had a reasonable law for death for murder. would and should have the early church broke said law and took haven of those wanted criminals. and btw peter said its a shame to be in prison for such crimes.

and well I guess god lied then and tempted isreal to sin, Joshua et all sinned. killing is killing the fact is god charged men to kill for him. he does it again. arguing that all forms of killing are a sin is simply wrong. romans 13 is clear on that. whom is the appointed avenger of blood for crimes of murder? the government.

and the ylt calls the torah as saying in greek murder.


the other quote I posted was from the ylt.

The Old Testament does not apply to Christians, we don't follow Moses or Elijah and the prophets we follow Christ. God spoke to His people through Moses and the prophets, today He speaks to His people through Christ. What God commanded His people (the Jews) in the Old Testament is not what He commands of us today. His instruction to us is through Jesus. Matthew 17:1-8

There is no civil law that requires Christians to kill, so your statement doesn't apply. Just because the government may carry out punishment that does not justify a Christian to disobey God. He is very clear on how we are to treat others, especially our enemies.

 

[Rance-Adams]

A word search of the English word 'kill' in the KJV of the OT, shows that there are at least 4 different Hebrews words translated into English as 'kill'.
If one is serious about knowing what the OT says about it they could do the study by word, definition, and verse/s context.

imo
God did not change what He determines to be right and wrong moral behaviors. They are the same in the OT and the NT.

God most definitely changed what was right and wrong from the old Testament to the New Testament.