Three Verses which Grace Preachers defend their stand

[jonahmano]

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.(KJV)

Now even demons believe in Jesus Christ the Son and are they going to have everlasting life? This verse has something more to do than just belief. The word pisteuo in ancient Greek used in this verse clarifies that it's obedience-salvation.

something literally it goes this way - He that continually believeth on the Son hath everlasting life..............

John 5:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Now what about people who just believe and don't hear His word anymore than John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 10:11. will he still have everlasting life and not come into condemnation?

John 6:37King James Version (KJV)
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Ok then what about those people who goeth away from the Father. Will He not cast them out?

 

[Free]

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.(KJV)

Now even demons believe in Jesus Christ the Son and are they going to have everlasting life?

Please provide Scripture to support this.

 

[tim-from-pa]

The problem with our western culture is we look at faith as a noun like a creed, e.g. "faith of our fathers", etc. In the Greek, pistis is a verb. Mental belief backs up action. This is why faith is the gift of God. He empowers you with His Spirit to make the thought (belief) into action which is always some form of obedience resulting from that belief. No action, no faith, although belief may be there.

(Edited, Our Doctrinal Statement reads in part: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs, a complete and final written revelation from God." Claiming an inspired writer of scripture was in error is the same as claiming God was in error. A&T guidelines state: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Obadiah)

Perhaps instead of faith, we should turn it into a verb "faithe". I faithe in Christ constantly, and constantly hang {another verb or action} my life on his promises.

So you see, the devils and Satan may believe and tremble, but they don't have faith because if Satan had faith, he'd rest his entire being in the promises of God and obey him.

 

[childeye]

If a person had no Love, would he care that he didn't? No. Therefore it is all by grace. That is a self evident Truth.

 

[jonahmano]

Please provide Scripture to support this.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

 

[childeye]

The problem with our western culture is we look at faith as a noun like a creed, e.g. "faith of our fathers", etc. In the Greek, pistis is a verb. Mental belief backs up action. This is why faith is the gift of God. He empowers you with His Spirit to make the thought (belief) into action which is always some form of obedience resulting from that belief. No action, no faith, although belief may be there.

(Edited, Our Doctrinal Statement reads in part: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs, a complete and final written revelation from God." Claiming an inspired writer of scripture was in error is the same as claiming God was in error. A&T guidelines state: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Obadiah)

Perhaps instead of faith, we should turn it into a verb "faithe". I faithe in Christ constantly, and constantly hang {another verb or action} my life on his promises.

So you see, the devils and Satan may believe and tremble, but they don't have faith because if Satan had faith, he'd rest his entire being in the promises of God and obey him.

Good point. There are semantics at play here. Misunderstandings will arise.

 

[Free]

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Those do not support your point.

 

[jonahmano]

The problem with our western culture is we look at faith as a noun like a creed, e.g. "faith of our fathers", etc. In the Greek, pistis is a verb. Mental belief backs up action. This is why faith is the gift of God. He empowers you with His Spirit to make the thought (belief) into action which is always some form of obedience resulting from that belief. No action, no faith, although belief may be there.

(Edited, Our Doctrinal Statement reads in part: "We believe that the Bible is inspired by God in its entirety, and is without error in the original autographs, a complete and final written revelation from God." Claiming an inspired writer of scripture was in error is the same as claiming God was in error. A&T guidelines state: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Obadiah)

Perhaps instead of faith, we should turn it into a verb "faithe". I faithe in Christ constantly, and constantly hang {another verb or action} my life on his promises.

So you see, the devils and Satan may believe and tremble, but they don't have faith because if Satan had faith, he'd rest his entire being in the promises of God and obey him.

may be you must also look into literacy of Peter. He was just a fisherman. I think all scriptures are penned down by the Holy Spirit and the writers were just vessels of God. You can differ from my opinion but I haven't any problem in that but I will stick to my belief in the Holy Spirit.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[jonahmano]

Those do not support your point.

I have proved that demons believe that Jesus Christ is Lord.

 

[jonahmano]

If a person had no Love, would he care that he didn't? No. Therefore it is all by grace. That is a self evident Truth.

Didn't get the point. Can you be more specific?

 

[Free]

I have proved that demons believe that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Proving that "demons believe that Jesus Christ is Lord" is very different than the point you made in your op--"Now even demons believe in Jesus Christ the Son and are they going to have everlasting life?" You even used John 3:36 as though it supported what you were saying:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.(KJV)

Believing that Jesus is the Son of God is not at all the same as what John 3:36 is says. Where it says "He that believeth on the Son," or, as the ESV puts it, "Whoever believes in the Son," that is speaking of a saving faith or trusting in the Son and all that he is for one's salvation. Demons do not do that.

Those verses do not support the point you made in the OP.

 

[jonahmano]

Proving that "demons believe that Jesus Christ is Lord" is very different than the point you made in your op--"Now even demons believe in Jesus Christ the Son and are they going to have everlasting life?" You even used John 3:36 as though it supported what you were saying:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.(KJV)

Believing that Jesus is the Son of God is not at all the same as what John 3:36 is says. Where it says "He that believeth on the Son," or, as the ESV puts it, "Whoever believes in the Son," that is speaking of a saving faith or trusting in the Son and all that he is for one's salvation. Demons do not do that.

Those verses do not support the point you made in the OP.

yeah you are right. I was just proving John 3:36 has something more to do with than just believing as Grace preachers quote. And that was my point. If it was just believing then even demons do believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God. Please take my points in the right sense.

you have well gone a step further but I want others to go even further.

 

[Free]

yeah you are right. I was just proving John 3:36 has something more to do with than just believing as Grace preachers quote. And that was my point. If it was just believing then even demons do believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God. Please take my points in the right sense.

I did take them in the right sense. There is nothing there that goes against grace. John 3:36 is saying that one must put their full trust in Jesus as their Lord, so, as per my point, it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on demons.

 

[jonahmano]

I did take them in the right sense. There is nothing there that goes against grace. John 3:36 is saying that one must put their full trust in Jesus as their Lord, so, as per my point, it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on demons.

I just want to prove that it's not just believing but continue to believe till the end of your life and not just believing but also walking in the way of God. Something like discipleship of Jesus Christ. Imitating Christ.

 

[Free]

I just want to prove that it's not just believing but continue to believe till the end of your life and not just believing but also walking in the way of God. Something like discipleship of Jesus Christ. Imitating Christ.

None of that goes against grace, if that is what you are trying to show.

 

[Malachi]

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.(KJV)
Now even demons believe in Jesus Christ the Son and are they going to have everlasting life?

If you will recall from the Gospels, demons were confronted by Christ all the time. They recognized that He was the Son of God (sooner than humans) (Mt 8:29 and many others). But demons are beyond redemption, so why bring this up? Of course they believe that Jesus is the Son of God. But they are still eternally damned. God designed salvation for human sinners. Not for evil spirits.

This verse has something more to do than just belief. The word pisteuo in ancient Greek used in this verse clarifies that it's obedience-salvation.

Scripture does say that sinners must "obey the Gospel" (2 Thess 1:8; 1 Pet 4:17). What does it mean? See Acts 2:22-41; 16:25-34 for everything it entails. It means believing that Christ died for our sins and rose again for our justification (1 Cor 15:1-4), repentance and conversion (Acts 3:19), and receiving Christ by faith (Jn1:12,13). But Scripture is very clear that we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works (Eph 2:8,9). Water baptism is a step of obedience (Acts 10:48) but does not produce salvation. Salvation is the GIFT of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44-47) and the GIFT of eternal life (Rom 6:23).

John 5:24 King James Version (KJV)

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Now what about people who just believe and don't hear His word anymore than John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 10:11. will he still have everlasting life and not come into condemnation?

Salvation is very,very, simple. See above. Those who truly believe on Christ are saved immediately. They don't even have to be baptized (see Lk 23:39-43).

John 6:37King James Version (KJV)

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Ok then what about those people who goeth away from the Father. Will He not cast them out?

Those who do not believe the Gospel remain under God's wrath. You already quoted John 3:36. I believe every sinner has at least one opportunity (perhaps multiple opportunities) to be saved. Some respond to the voice of the Holy Spirit, others resist until there is no chance for repentance. Study Pharaoh and Moses, and see how many opportunties God gave him to repent.

 

[Deborah13]

If you will recall from the Gospels, demons were confronted by Christ all the time. They recognized that He was the Son of God (sooner than humans) (Mt 8:29 and many others). But demons are beyond redemption, so why bring this up? Of course they believe that Jesus is the Son of God. But they are still eternally damned. God designed salvation for human sinners. Not for evil spirits.

Scripture does say that sinners must "obey the Gospel" (2 Thess 1:8; 1 Pet 4:17). What does it mean? See Acts 2:22-41; 16:25-34 for everything it entails. It means believing that Christ died for our sins and rose again for our justification (1 Cor 15:1-4), repentance and conversion (Acts 3:19), and receiving Christ by faith (Jn1:12,13). But Scripture is very clear that we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works (Eph 2:8,9). Water baptism is a step of obedience (Acts 10:48) but does not produce salvation. Salvation is the GIFT of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44-47) and the GIFT of eternal life (Rom 6:23).

Salvation is very,very, simple. See above. Those who truly believe on Christ are saved immediately. They don't even have to be baptized (see Lk 23:39-43).

Those who do not believe the Gospel remain under God's wrath. You already quoted John 3:36. I believe every sinner has at least one opportunity (perhaps multiple opportunities) to be saved. Some respond to the voice of the Holy Spirit, others resist until there is no chance for repentance. Study Pharaoh and Moses, and see how many opportunties God gave him to repent.

Don't those scriptures just make your heart sing.

 

[childeye]

Didn't get the point. Can you be more specific?

My point is what does the term grace mean to you? The op is about three verses that grace preachers use to defend their stand. I don't mean to be a nuisance, but I can't help but feel that you are implying that certain preachers of grace are wrong about grace. I therefore wonder what problems you see with grace, or what you feel these preachers of grace are getting wrong about grace, or what you are getting wrong about what the preachers are saying about grace. My post is meant to say that all is by grace according to how I see grace. But how do you see it?

 

[Malachi]

I therefore wonder what problems you see with grace...?

Jonah would prefer to see this formula:
Salvation = grace + faith + works.
There are many "Christians" who prefer this formula rather than:
Salvation = grace + faith

The only problem is that Scripture makes it very clear (Tit 3:5) that salvation is "NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE..."

 

[jonahmano]

My point is what does the term grace mean to you? The op is about three verses that grace preachers use to defend their stand. I don't mean to be a nuisance, but I can't help but feel that you are implying that certain preachers of grace are wrong about grace. I therefore wonder what problems you see with grace, or what you feel these preachers of grace are getting wrong about grace, or what you are getting wrong about what the preachers are saying about grace. My post is meant to say that all is by grace according to how I see grace. But how do you see it?

I know that grace means every thing to me but for grace preachers it means salvation to them. What type of church are we building. Weak, feeble, world centered? or Strong, zealous, Christ centered?

When grace preachers say Salvation is only by grace and all things you do thereafter are optional but I say all things which they think thereafter aren't any works but obedience to God and they are not optional but fuel to sustain in the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, for self growth and also for the edification of Jesus Christ.

1. When you meditate in the word, it's not work, it's obedience to the Word because you believe of what's written in the book and it's faith
2. When you bow your knees before God, it's again not work but it's obedience to the Word because when you need faith to make yourself believe that you are in the presence of God.
3. When you worship in a fellowship, it's again not work but it's obedience to the Word because you believe by faith that Christ is among the two or more people gathered in His name.

And to obey God we need Grace that is His favour and it's wrong teaching that all the above mentioned things which grace preacher teach as works.

I think now you have understood my point.