Thus saith the Lord

[ezrider]

John 5:39-47
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


Deuteronomy 18:15-19
The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.


Jesus Christ was that Prophet whom God raised up who spoke the words given to him. Moses tells you right here that it will be the words of Jesus that will be required of you, listen to him.

But Moses continues on with a warning....

Deuteronomy 18:20-22
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.



But the prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name. Thus saith the Lord....

Moses and the prophets of the old Covenant frequently said to the people "thus saith the Lord". From Elijah, to Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea..... When they received a word to be given to the people it often included the phrase "thus saith the Lord".

But, when we look towards that Prophet in whom Moses spoke and told you to listen to, Jesus, a Prophet of the new Covenant, there is one thing curiously missing from His Words. Jesus never used the words "thus saith the Lord". Jesus said it is written in your law, or you have heard it said, but He never said "thus saith the Lord".

So how shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? Maybe if it begins with thus saith the Lord. And notice the further instruction Moses gives concerning the presumptuous prophet: He simply says to be not afraid of him. Fear not.

 

[smaller]

But, when we look towards that Prophet in whom Moses spoke and told you to listen to, Jesus, a Prophet of the new Covenant, there is one thing curiously missing from His Words.

That's kinda selling Jesus short ain't it? God in the flesh was a bit more than a common prophet.

Jesus never used the words "thus saith the Lord". Jesus said it is written in your law, or you have heard it said, but He never said "thus saith the Lord".

He didn't have to. When Jesus spoke, they were the Words of God Himself. There was no need for Him to use that preamble, thus sayeth the Lord because He Is That Lord, speaking.

So how shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? Maybe if it begins with thus saith the Lord.

In the cases of others making such statements in the O.T., yes, that 'brands' such Words as from God Himself. But Jesus did not have this requirement.

We call the Bible the Word of God, but not all the quotes therein are Gods Direct Words. In the N.T. past the Gospels there are very few direct quotes from God, and none of them are preambled by "thus saith the Lord." But they are God, Speaking. Acts 26:18 and 2 Cor. 12:9 come to mind as direct quotes, "recounted" or "recorded" as such, through Paul.

And notice the further instruction Moses gives concerning the presumptuous prophet: He simply says to be not afraid of him. Fear not.

The delivery of Gods Words in prophesy, even IF such claimed them as such and they did come to pass, and then they turned others away from God to serve false gods, demanded STONING to death under O.T. orders:

Deut: 13:
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death

Isaiah lays down a similar sight:

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[ezrider]

Isaiah lays down a similar sight:

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Jesus too lays down a similar sight.

John 8:12-19
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 8:25-29
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

 

[Jim Parker]

John 5:39-47

Deuteronomy 18:15-19
The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus Christ was that Prophet whom God raised up who spoke the words given to him. Moses tells you right here that it will be the words of Jesus that will be required of you, listen to him.

Again:
What you quoted was Deut 18:18-19.
Let's take a look at the entire passage instead of the piece of the passage. (Reading a passage IN CONTEXT tends to prevent people from taking pieces of scripture out of their context and trying to make them say what they were not meant to say. You should try it.)
Deu 18:9-22 (RSV)
When you come into the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

For whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD; and because of these abominable practices the LORD your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.

For these nations, which you are about to dispossess, give heed to soothsayers and to diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you so to do. "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren--him you shall heed--just as you desired of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, or see this great fire any more, lest I die.' And the LORD said to me, 'They have rightly said all that they have spoken.

I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And whoever will not give heed to my words which he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.' And if you say in your heart, 'How may we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'--when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him.

In that passage, Moses told the people of Israel that, as God spoke to them through Moses, so also, when they enter the promised land, God would provide other Jewish prophets (not pagan gentiles) to speak His words to Israel and God forbade them from consulting the pagan, Gentile mediums, seers, sorcerers, etc. The Bible contains books of the writings of the four major prophets and twelve minor ones as well as several others for whom there are not assigned books. Those are the prophets to whom Moses referred at Deut.18:18-19. The first chapter of the book of Hebrews makes it abundantly clear that Jesus is much more than a prophet.

The prophets spoke of Jesus but Jesus was not a prophet, He is God.
God spoke through the prophets but, as Jesus, God Himself spoke.

iakov the fool

 

[ezrider]

Again:
What you quoted was Deut 18:18-19.
Let's take a look at the entire passage instead of the piece of the passage. (Reading a passage IN CONTEXT tends to prevent people from taking pieces of scripture out of their context and trying to make them say what they were not meant to say. You should try it.)
Deu 18:9-22 (RSV)

While your quote on this passage began in a different thread, I would be more than happy to continue to discuss it in this thread. Now in that thread I had posted Deut 18:18-19 as an example of a scripture instructing us to listen to the words of Jesus. And in the context of my comment, posting those to verses were really all that was required. You were quite capable, and I can see that you did, go and read all of it in context. I posted just enough that you wanted to go read more. Because you don't seem to understand WHO this Prophet Moses was speaking of was, or is, does not mean I have taken it out of context to make it say something that it does not. I could say that you have read it in context, and have still tried to make it say something that it does not say. No need for the snarks.

In that passage, Moses told the people of Israel that, as God spoke to them through Moses, so also, when they enter the promised land, God would provide other Jewish prophets (not pagan gentiles) to speak His words to Israel and God forbade them from consulting the pagan, Gentile mediums, seers, sorcerers, etc. The Bible contains books of the writings of the four major prophets and twelve minor ones as well as several others for whom there are not assigned books. Those are the prophets to whom Moses referred at Deut.18:18-19. The first chapter of the book of Hebrews makes it abundantly clear that Jesus is much more than a prophet.

Yes, Jesus was much more than a prophet, but that does not mean he wasn't a Prophet. And while I won't disagree with what you say about the major and minor prophets, the Prophet spoken of by Moses in Deut 18:18-19 is Jesus Christ. And by keeping these verses in context, it should become abundantly clear that this Prophet is none other than Jesus. I'll explain later.

The prophets spoke of Jesus but Jesus was not a prophet, He is God.
God spoke through the prophets but, as Jesus, God Himself spoke.

You seem to be hung up on this idea the Jesus could not be considered a Prophet, but he is God. You have no problem calling the SON of God, GOD, but calling him a prophet is not possible?

 

[ezrider]

So let us look at Deuteronomy 18:18-19 in a little more context.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19
The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.


The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me. This is Moses speaking, that God would raise up a Prophet like unto Moses, and unto Him shall you listen. To listen unto THAT PROPHET. So if he was to be like unto Moses, then Moses too was considered a prophet. Yes Moses was a Prophet, and Jesus was that Prophet whom God promised to raise up.

Now why did God promise to raise up unto them a Prophet like unto Moses? Because of all they desired of the Lord on the day of the assembly in Horeb. And what happened before the assembly that day beneath Mt Sinai when the Lord descended upon the mount in a lake of fire? The people feared the great fire, and would not go up the mountain that the Spirit of the Lord might write His laws into there hearts and minds, and so they rejected the Spirit of the Lord that day and chose to follow Moses instead. So because they feared death before the great lake of fire and would not hear the voice of God, God promised to raise up unto them another Prophet, like unto Moses, who would be the voice of God to speak the Spirit of the Law, the voice they would not hearken to from the flames.

Now lets look a little closer at the like unto me. Moses was a Law giver. The Laws of the Old Covenant are the Laws of Moses. Jesus was a Law giver. Jesus spoke forth the Law under the New Covenant. God made a Covenant with Moses and the people of Israel. God made a covenant with Jesus.

To which of the prophets did God establish his laws? To which of the prophets did God make a covenant? To which of the prophets was like unto Moses.

 

[chessman]

Actually, YOU do not know who Moses was talking about and you have indeed taken it out of its contexts (OT & NT) and come to the incorrect conclusion that in both cases the passage was referring to Jesus.

Peter says Moses was talking about Jesus as the Leader of all Prophets in Deut 18:

Acts 3:19-23 (LEB) Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and he may send the Christ appointed for you—Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the times of the restoration of all things, about which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets from earliest times. Moses said, ​

‘'The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You will listen to him in everything that he says to you. And it will be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet will be destroyed utterly from the people.’
​

Quoting Deut 18:15-19 and claiming that Jesus Christ (a Jew) was exactly who Moses was speaking of.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/misc/quotes02.cfm

 

[smaller]

Quoting Deut 18:15-19 and claiming that Jesus Christ (a Jew) was exactly who Moses was speaking of.

Jesus is exactly Who God was referring to, there. The scriptures, Every Word of God, testify of Jesus.

John 5:39.

Even Moses, and "every prophet," when speaking "saith the Lord" spoke from the Spirit of Christ. 1 Peter 1:10-12. And "testify" of Him, even "by Him."

 

[Jim Parker]

You have no problem calling the SON of God, GOD, but calling him a prophet is not possible?

John 1:1, and 14 and Luke 1:35 say specifically that the Son of God IS God.
If you have a problem with Jesus being God then you have a problem with Christianity. The full deity of Christ is a basic and essential teaching of Christianity. Those who reject Jesus' full deity reject the teaching of scripture and the Church.

When Moses spoke the words which God gave him to communicate to Israel, he spoke as a prophet relaying God's word.
When Jesus spoke the words of God He spoke AS God, not as a messenger FROM God, but God in the flesh (John 1:14) and God with us: Emmanuel (Mat 1:23).

Jesus of Nazareth was the one of whom the prophets spoke.
Jesus the Christ was much more than a prophet.

Heb 1:1-2a (RSV) In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son,..
Heb 1:8a (RSV) But of the Son he says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever,

So, in a manner of speaking, Jesus was like the prophets because He spoke the word of God as His messengers.
But, technically, He was not a prophet because He IS God, not a messenger from God.

I'm making that distinction.

That's all.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)




DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[smaller]

So, in a manner of speaking, Jesus was like the prophets because He spoke the word of God as His messengers.
But, technically, He was not a prophet because He IS God, not a messenger from God.

I'm making that distinction.

That's all.

Jesus Himself fulfilled (and still does) ALL Ministerial Roles, High Priest, Apostle, Prophet, King and Servant.