Tithes

[YosefHayim]

In response to those who ask why the church needs an IPad or a new amplifier (as their reason for not wanting to give the church money), I would ask would you feel the same way if you could never hear anything when you were in church? Or would you then be more accepting that replacing the burned out amplifier might not be such an unGodly use for part of the money afterall. Same with Ipads, they are a tool used in our modern society for many things, not just playing games or surfing the internet. As just one example since I'm already talking about he worship service, did you know in some church sound systems the quality of everything you hear is controlled by an IPad these days? In a medium to large sized church If you couldn't hear the song leader over the organ because of poor sound mixing, and then were blasted with screeching feedback every few seconds while the pastor was preaching, you might think that Ipad wasn't such a waste of money afterall! In fact the lack of it may turn that church into a very empty church in little time at all! Saying these kind of things are a waste of money in modern churches that can afford them is like telling the carpenter that a saw and hammer is a waste of money.

Now with that being said, it]s a matter of priorities, and in a Christian church those priorities should be a lot different than in the rest of the world. If there is no money to support the main ministry of the church (worship, edification, and evangelism) and also buy these other kind of things, then of course money shouldn't be spent on these other things. Our priorities are shown by where we spend our money and a church who spends more money for a professional janitor to dump the trash and wash the windows than it does on it's primary ministry is clearly wrong in it's priorities. But there is nothing wrong with a church utilizing tools such as Ipads, fancy lighting, good sound systems especially to make the music worshipful, etc, etc as long as they are not doing it at the expense of more important things. When I have attended churches that do not have Biblical priorities (they don't share all things with those who teach, don't use their money for evangelism or helping the poor, etc but still will buy the fancy equipment and hire out jobs such as dumping trash and cutting the lawn), well, I don't put my money in their plates or dedicate my time to them. I look for a new church!

So as for tithing being a Biblical command for NT churches, no, I don't believe it is. But we are certainly commanded to give to the service of God, whether it be money in the offering plate, time dedicated to the ministry of the church, or a meal given to a poor person in our neighborhood. So I pity Joe Pewsitter who will have to explain to God why he allowed the good pastor of his church, who teaches him God's word day after day, to resort to begging and selling plasma to feed his family while Joe drives a new car and lives in a fancy house but is stingy about what he gives to God's ministry!

So you don't think it's better to give to a man in rags than a man in a suit and tie? I doubt suited men resort to begging unless they lose the job that gave them the suit. Saving for money for the homeless is much less stingy. What does a church really need lights and iPads for? In the first several centuries church buildings did not need them. Seems like thousands got saved in the NT without them. A few thousand dollar televesions and projectors could be a plane ticket for evangelizing and feeding the poor. Wouldn't one man who joyfully feeds the poor from his own income be better than a pew full of people painfully giving an envelope with suspicion because they feel they "have to"?

Also why does the pastor (or even the worship team) get benifited from the money rather than the whole church which would be the whole people in Christ? Aren't we all pastors and priests etc. in Christ? (Rev 1:6)

Why not use your own money to do your own ministries: (make your own tracts, buy bibles and educational material for new christians, etc.).

I'm not rejecting or even gainsying giving to the pastor, nor am I saying they are not in need. .

I'm saying why does all of your "Gods share" have to go in a fancy bucket for the pastor? Why can't someone do their own thing even with that money so they see it going to good use. Even, what if they feel that's what God wants them to do, but the pastor tells them they're under a curse for not tithiing?

So I pity Joe Pewsitter who will have to explain to God why he allowed the good pastor of his church, who teaches him God's word day after day, to resort to begging and selling plasma to feed his family while Joe drives a new car and lives in a fancy house but is stingy about what he gives to God's ministry!

My question isn't about trying to avoid or getting out of giving to God's ministry. It's about quite the opposite actually.

 

[Obadiah]

Actually a lot of your response is the same kind of argument that I have had with certain people before on this site, and It caused me to have to stay away from here for a few months until I saw the main person involved in that was no longer active because it simply tried my patience to the point that I was behaving badly. The examples I gave you were from my own real life and people who I've known personally, so you have no right to tell me that you doubt they are true. I'm not going to get into that again. Also, you may want to read my post a little more closely as some of what you are trying to argue with me are things I didn't even say.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I understand you Obadiah and I agree 100%!

Oh, and the plasma bit, that's good.
Never heard that one before but it's good and to the point.

 

[YosefHayim]

Also, you may want to read my post a little more closely as some of what you are trying to argue with me are things I didn't even say.

I quoted what you said.

And again: I'm not rejecting or even gainsying giving to the pastor, nor am I saying they are not in need.

But I am saying there is a lot they don't need

 

[stovebolts]

The church I attend is autonomous and governed by our Eldership. We have no governance outside our congregation and rely on the Bible as our sole authority on matters.

We believe tithing (10%) to the church is only the beginning, because we have so much more to offer in God's service throughout the week. But what we do give for the church, those numbers lay in an open book for everyone to see. Each week the tithes are recorded in the bulletin as well as expenses. Everyone gets a printout at the end of the year.

We are told to give willingly and we are also told to be good stewarts of our resources. Where I attend, I am content where my tithes are spent and I don't judge other congregations on how they spend theirs. What I do know is that God enjoys a cheerful giver and from where I sit, I consider it pure joy.

Grace and peace!

 

[reba]

Touchy subject for this preachers kid.... Small churches i can not even think of the mega church thing.....

My opinion... Your local pastor should have about the average income of the congregation.

Dad had 2 jobs for years .. .... Think of the divided time... We should honor employers with a days work for a days pay... How does one do so that spent the night at the hospital with a member of the church? If pastors should be paid how should it be done? Who should pay for the heat? Who should pay for the food pantry.

I know so very often those who cried about paying had the funds .. you can see the hearts of many people real easy

 

[Deborah13]

The church I attend is autonomous and governed by our Eldership. We have no governance outside our congregation and rely on the Bible as our sole authority on matters.

We believe tithing (10%) to the church is only the beginning, because we have so much more to offer in God's service throughout the week. But what we do give for the church, those numbers lay in an open book for everyone to see. Each week the tithes are recorded in the bulletin as well as expenses. Everyone gets a printout at the end of the year.

We are told to give willingly and we are also told to be good stewarts of our resources. Where I attend, I am content where my tithes are spent and I don't judge other congregations on how they spend theirs. What I do know is that God enjoys a cheerful giver and from where I sit, I consider it pure joy.

Grace and peace!

I especially like the way your church is open about the financial opposition of your church. I believe this is the way it should be done. Integrity.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I believe in giving everything I've got to help those in need.
But I hate the word tithe in the church.
Giving your local church 10% of your income is not what Christianity is all about.

 

[stovebolts]

I especially like the way your church is open about the financial opposition of your church. I believe this is the way it should be done. Integrity.

I think you meant position didn't you lol! We arn't a perfect church by any means, but having a set of Elders who jointly shepherd the church creates accountability. Believe it or not, our preacher isn't even an Elder (yet) so we do things a bit differently than a lot of other churches, although we do like to say we follow the biblical model in both tithing and governance.

I went to Southeast Christian church a few weeks ago with 12 other members from our church. Their roots derived from the restoration movement as well. As such, we have a lot in common with them (churches of Christ), except they have over 23,000 members and an annual budget of 40 million. What I can say, is they are as responsible as we are, and maybe even a little smarter stewards than us!

 

[Deborah13]

I think you meant position didn't you lol! We arn't a perfect church by any means, but having a set of Elders who jointly shepherd the church creates accountability. Believe it or not, our preacher isn't even an Elder (yet) so we do things a bit differently than a lot of other churches, although we do like to say we follow the biblical model in both tithing and governance.

I went to Southeast Christian church a few weeks ago with 12 other members from our church. Their roots derived from the restoration movement as well. As such, we have a lot in common with them (churches of Christ), except they have over 23,000 members and an annual budget of 40 million. What I can say, is they are as responsible as we are, and maybe even a little smarter stewards than us!

Yeah, I did. 2