[_ Old Earth _] To "Christian" evolutionists

[Heidi]

Heidi :D

You have still not offered any facts to support your point of view. Look around me does not cut it. What are the facts that show evolution is false?

Shalom
Ted :D

So in what reality do you live? The twighlight zone? Do you see apes breeding transitional species and human descendants in your reality? Please answer the question for once. If you can't then I know that you can see your own contradictions.

 

[Heidi]

Heidi :D

The fact is we share many of the same genes because we come from the same source. Apes have one more Chromosome than humans. Those with Downs Syndrome have an extra but smaller "Y" chromosome.

There is nothing whatsoever imaginary about evolution except in the eyes of those who cannot face the truth.

A good question to consider is why they cannot face the truth.

Shalom
Ted :D

And what source is that? Please describe in detail. I trust that all evolutionists will agree with your description because science is based on observable reality. So since you claim that evolution is a fact, then please provide the facts about this common ancesotr, who he was, what he looked like, how many there were, when they lived and how they got on earth. Or is he just a figment of your imagination? ;-) If not, then I trust you can answer my questions in detail. ;-)

 

[Ted]

Heidi :D

I have no intention of writing a book on evolution nor repeating what is readily available on the internet. If you are interested you can search "evolution" and you will get all the information you are requesting.

You still have offered no proof that I ask for and yet you expect me to respond.

Have a nice day.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Heidi]

Heidi :D

I have no intention of writing a book on evolution nor repeating what is readily available on the internet. If you are interested you can search "evolution" and you will get all the information you are requesting.

You still have offered no proof that I ask for and yet you expect me to respond.

Have a nice day.

Shalom
Ted :D

Oh, I already know what the theory of evolution says and doesn't say. You just said that humans came from the same source as animals did and I asked you to provide that source. But I already know that you cannot, which I'm sure you know as well or you would have answered the question very easily. So your evasion speaks for itself.

I have given you the proof by telling you what animals and humans breed in reality. But since you close your eyes to what animals and humans breed, then answering your question again will be a waste of time, as I've answered it enough already. :roll: But ifyou really want proof (which you don't or you would have listened to me), then go to a farm or zoo and see for yourself what animals breed. Then go to the maternity ward of your local hospital to see what humans breed. And if after that, you still don't know, then there isn't much anyone can do for you. 8-)

 

[Ted]

Heidi :D

I think if the Divine One him/herself told you you would refuse to believe it.

As has been posted elsewhere you take things out of context just as the creationists do and you twist words and phrases around to suit you own purpose.

You want me to respond to your question but you have yet to respond to mine. So be it.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Dunzo]

Heidi :D

You have still not offered any facts to support your point of view. Look around me does not cut it. What are the facts that show evolution is false?

Shalom
Ted :D

So in what reality do you live? The twighlight zone? Do you see apes breeding transitional species and human descendants in your reality? Please answer the question for once. If you can't then I know that you can see your own contradictions.

Here's some early human ancestors, Heidi.

Australopithecus afarensis.

Homo habilis.

Homo erectus.

There's plenty more if you'd like to see them... which I'm sure you wouldn't.

 

[Heidi]

: I've seen many pictures of their glued together skulls with made-up names (preferrably Latin or Greek and the longer the better, to make them sound more credible) And how do you know they were early ancestors? They could have been anything or anyone. :o Pictures of skulls is no more evidence that they could breed human beings than a picture of a lion skull means that he can breed a skunk! :

The theory of evolution is a perfect example of evolutionists forming a clonclusion before the've found evidence rather than examing evidence and then forming a conclusion. If they had done the latter, then they would consider the myriad of possibilities of what those skulls were.

first of all, msot of the skulls they find are bone fragments which are scattered. Evolutionists then piece these fragments together to make them look how they want the to look. There's no way to know, for example, if these bone fragments all cam from the same body! even forensic sceintists can't tell that when they find skeletons without extracting DNA from the skeletons.

Secondly, since evolutionary scientists completely ignore the Global flood described by over 2oo cultures, then they don't even consider what millions of gallons of water can do to skulls and bones. So instead, they make up their own story about what these skulls and bones were which is nothing more than fairy tales. And the common person who doesn't know that apes can't turn into human beings, believes anything a scientist says because he doesn't have enough confidence in his own perceptions of reality to think it through. And that's how scientists can easily brainwash people like yourself. :wink:

 

[Dunzo]

: I've seen many pictures of their glued together skulls with made-up names (preferrably Latin or Greek and the longer the better, to make them sound more credible)

I'd just love to see that, along with some scientific papers indicating that it was proved they were fake. Actually, I'm just kidding. It's pretty obvious you're lying out of your teeth here.

And how do you know they were early ancestors? They could have been anything or anyone. :o Pictures of skulls is no more evidence that they could breed human beings than a picture of a lion skull means that he can breed a skunk! :

Because that's the logical conclusion.
When you find fossils that uniformly increase in brain size when you ascend through the strata, the logic conclusion to arrive to is that they evolved from one another.

The theory of evolution is a perfect example of evolutionists forming a clonclusion before the've found evidence rather than examing evidence and then forming a conclusion. If they had done the latter, then they would consider the myriad of possibilities of what those skulls were.

Wait, what? Are you telling me that creationists don't start with the idea that god made everything, and then find try to find evidence to support it? Researching evolution follows the exact same scientific method as every other theory. This means that they start WITHOUT ANY PRESUPPOSITIONS, discover evidence and THEN attempt to create a theory that fits ALL of the evidence best. That was definitely one of the most hypocritical statements I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

first of all, msot of the skulls they find are bone fragments which are scattered. Evolutionists then piece these fragments together to make them look how they want the to look.

No, they'll attempt to piece the fragments together the way they'll fit best, assuring minimal error.

There's no way to know, for example, if these bone fragments all cam from the same body! even forensic sceintists can't tell that when they find skeletons without extracting DNA from the skeletons.

Erm, what if they were all found within the same area?
But let's say you found 2 skeletons in a small area, and you couldn't distinguish between them at first glance. Let's say you found 2 fragments of a hip bone. They both appear to be from the same section, but one is bigger than the other. By analysing the bones you might come to the conclusion that the larger hip bone belongs to a woman, and the smaller to a child. Following from this, if you found any 2 corresponding pieces, but differing in size, you can logically assume that one belongs to the mother and the other to the child. THAT'S how you tell if they're from different bodies. I was going to refute your second sentence, but then I realised it doesn't make sense.

Secondly, since evolutionary scientists completely ignore the Global flood described by over 2oo cultures, then they don't even consider what millions of gallons of water can do to skulls and bones. So instead, they make up their own story about what these skulls and bones were which is nothing more than fairy tales.

If the flood were ignored, it's probably because it's such an obviously stupid theory.
If a global flood did happen, we wouldn't see every single fossilized organism in existence (well, almost, I'm sure there must be some discrepancies) neatly organized into the strata, ascending in complexity. Surely we'd see a shitload of dead animals all at the bottom. But that isn't what we see, is it?

And the common person who doesn't know that apes can't turn into human beings, believes anything a scientist says because he doesn't have enough confidence in his own perceptions of reality to think it through. And that's how scientists can easily brainwash people like yourself. :wink:

How deliciously ironic, but please don't insult my intelligence like that. It is not I who has been brainwashed.

 

[Ted]

Heidi :D

You simply do not understand the scientific process.

As far as the pictures you posted I've seen them all before. I do look them up. The problem you face is that you have taken them out of the wider context and as such they simply don't make any story. At that you are slamming intelligent people of integrity who are most concerned that they locate the truth unlike the creationists who misquote and misuse accurate scientific date and in some cases out and out lie. They are, to put it simply, wannabe scientists.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Ted]

Dunzo :D

Excellent post. Well put.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Heidi]

Heidi :D

You simply do not understand the scientific process.

As far as the pictures you posted I've seen them all before. I do look them up. The problem you face is that you have taken them out of the wider context and as such they simply don't make any story. At that you are slamming intelligent people of integrity who are most concerned that they locate the truth unlike the creationists who misquote and misuse accurate scientific date and in some cases out and out lie. They are, to put it simply, wannabe scientists.

Shalom
Ted :D

"Intelligent" people? : You mean people who call themselves intelligent? ;-) It doesn't take much to get an advanced degree. All you have to do is stay in college and do what the teacher wants. But that sure fools unintelligent people.

What you don't realize is that all the previous scientists whose theories have been proven false were considered intelligent, friend. When scientists look at skulls and bones, all they're doing is imagining what they could be based on the limited informatioin they have. And since evolutionary scientists are trying to disprove God, then they don't even consider the other explanations for the shape of those skulls and bones.

For example, I'd love to see a blonde wig put on those skulls, a prominent nose, creamy skin, blue eyes and fine clothes and you will find they look just like human beings. ;-)

But scientists don't want them to look like human beings because it would ruin their theory. So they give them brown eyes, black hair, a hairy face and body and put Tarzan outfits on them when there's no way to know that those skeletons looked like. So why do they do those unscientific things? :o Simple, to brainwash the public all the while using their degrees to do it. :x And because the common person automatically thinks that scientists are smarter than he is, he is easily fooled indeed. As you are. :roll:

 

[Ted]

Heidi :D

As I've said you obviously do not understand the scientific process, the educational process or the nature of forensic enquiry.

Now if you want to continue to think as you do, go for it. I do not accept that kind of thinking.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Ted]

Heidi :D

Like dad you want simple answers to problems that have no simple answers. So I've taken the liberty to find several sites that will help answer your questions.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
Understanding Evolution

http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/jour ... 820&site=1
Evolution: International Journal of Organic Evolution - Journal Information

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/evolution.html
Evolution Entrance

http://www.mcb.harvard.edu/BioLinks/Evolution.html
Dept of Molecular and Cellular Biology, Harvard U: Biology Links

http://www.becominghuman.org/
Becoming Human: Paleoanthropology, Evolution and Human Origins

If you would like more there are hundreds that I can provide.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Dunzo]

"Intelligent" people? : You mean people who call themselves intelligent? ;-) It doesn't take much to get an advanced degree. All you have to do is stay in college and do what the teacher wants. But that sure fools unintelligent people.

Oh, please! You couldn't possibly be suggesting that intellectually demanding courses don't require anything special at all? Be reasonable!

What you don't realize is that all the previous scientists whose theories have been proven false were considered intelligent, friend.

Scientists are always attempting to refine theories and this involves trying to disprove them.

When scientists look at skulls and bones, all they're doing is imagining what they could be based on the limited informatioin they have. And since evolutionary scientists are trying to disprove God, then they don't even consider the other explanations for the shape of those skulls and bones.

You're just making this nonsense up. The scientific method starts entirely without presuppositions. Got it? There are no presuppositions.

For example, I'd love to see a blonde wig put on those skulls, a prominent nose, creamy skin, blue eyes and fine clothes and you will find they look just like human beings. ;-)

They would indeed... but just a little bit more ape-like, I think you'll find.

But scientists don't want them to look like human beings because it would ruin their theory. So they give them brown eyes, black hair, a hairy face and body and put Tarzan outfits on them when there's no way to know that those skeletons looked like. So why do they do those unscientific things? :o Simple, to brainwash the public all the while using their degrees to do it. :x And because the common person automatically thinks that scientists are smarter than he is, he is easily fooled indeed. As you are. :roll:

What absolute tripe. Utter nonsense. Your ideas are unfounded and based on fantasies. Do some research, stop closing your mind to theories contrary to your own - after all, I'm sure that's what Jesus would want you to do.

 

[chad87]

science, helps our understanding, explore other possibilities... if any thing scientific theories, if incase are proven wrong, the theorist/scientist will go and be content that it is PROVEN wrong. and work on somthing else, or re look at the evidence

where as religion is in place to brainwash. you'll find that scientist are more open minded, if you can prove god exist, scientists will be happy with the findings and believe, but if you question the word of god, you immediately go to hell.

people of religion and i mean pure religion, not religious scientists, but people of pure religion like hiedi here, are more narrowed minded, and will argue to every breathe even if its illogical. blame everything on satan, and give all credit to god.

if it wasnt for science, we wouldnt ahve progressed any where, cars, planes, medicine, space etc etc

"Intelligent" people? : You mean people who call themselves intelligent? ;-) It doesn't take much to get an advanced degree. All you have to do is stay in college and do what the teacher wants. But that sure fools unintelligent people.

hahahaha... omg your jking right? you must be on crack... lets hope you dont get a role in any political movement, because id hate to go to the hospital and find a junkie surgeon... you honestly think an unintelligent person will handle 6 years of university ( im from australia so its abit different here than the states ) 6 years for medicince then a couple more years as intern and register doctor... but you get the point im making i hope. not to mention if you keep failing they kick you out... if you think an advance degree is easy, then you seriously are high on somthing. becuase in your world , eveyr one would be doctors, lawyers, pharmict, scientists. and there would be NO WAITER WAITRESSES, becasue you cant say waiters and waitresses do it bcause they love the pay

 

[Dunzo]

science, helps our understanding, explore other possibilities... if any thing scientific theories, if incase are proven wrong, the theorist/scientist will go and be content that it is PROVEN wrong. and work on somthing else, or re look at the evidence

I think you'll find that the theory will either be adjusted to explain new evidence, or if an adjustment cannot be made it will be discarded and an entirely new hypothesis will have to be invented. Interestingly, despite the passionate criticisms by christian fundamentalists, the theory of evolution hasn't come close to being discarded. Adjusted, yes, to take into account new evidence, but it's still the theory of evolution.

where as religion is in place to brainwash. you'll find that scientist are more open minded, if you can prove god exist, scientists will be happy with the findings and believe, but if you question the word of god, you immediately go to hell.

This is true. If somebody were to come up with observable evidence for god's existence, scientists would be the first to accept it. There is no denying this, because the scientific method must take into account all evidence.

people of religion and i mean pure religion, not religious scientists, but people of pure religion like hiedi here, are more narrowed minded, and will argue to every breathe even if its illogical. blame everything on satan, and give all credit to god.

Also true.

"Intelligent" people? : You mean people who call themselves intelligent? ;-) It doesn't take much to get an advanced degree. All you have to do is stay in college and do what the teacher wants. But that sure fools unintelligent people.

With a statement like that, it seems to me that Heidi is not university educated... Just sayin'.

im from australia

Woot! Represent!

 

[Heidi]

People who claim to be intelligent are about as trustworthy as a used car salesman because they always overlook the areas in which they lack intelligence. So I'll go with the truth of Christ's words over man's any day that "He who exalts himself will be humbled." Man has shown that he's not qualified to judge himself because he always comes out on the high end of the stick in his own eyes. ;-)

 

[Dunzo]

People who claim to be intelligent are about as trustworthy as a used car salesman because they always overlook the areas in which they lack intelligence. So I'll go with the truth of Christ's words over man's any day that "He who exalts himself will be humbled." Man has shown that he's not qualified to judge himself because he always comes out on the high end of the stick in his own eyes. ;-)

The truly intelligent among us seek to improve in areas in which they lack intelligence. You are not such a person, because you're admitting that you can't think for yourself.

 

[Heidi]

People who claim to be intelligent are about as trustworthy as a used car salesman because they always overlook the areas in which they lack intelligence. So I'll go with the truth of Christ's words over man's any day that "He who exalts himself will be humbled." Man has shown that he's not qualified to judge himself because he always comes out on the high end of the stick in his own eyes. ;-)

The truly intelligent among us seek to improve in areas in which they lack intelligence. You are not such a person, because you're admitting that you can't think for yourself.

Sorry, but trying to seek knowledge from scientists who change their minds every decade is as foolish as seeking knowledge from anyone who claims to know better than God does. So since the track record of scientists as shaky at best, then I'll seek intelligence from God who is an infallible source. So if you always want to be right instead of always making false statements, then you can seek wisdom and knowledge from God too instead of from people who admit they're fallible. There can hardly be anything more foolish than seeking knowledge from people who admit they don't have the truth. :o But that's the illogic of atheists. :

 

[Dunzo]

Sorry, but trying to seek knowledge from scientists who change their minds every decade is as foolish as seeking knowledge from anyone who claims to know better than God does. So since the track record of scientists as shaky at best, then I'll seek intelligence from God who is an infallible source. So if you always want to be right instead of always making false statements, then you can seek wisdom and knowledge from God too instead of from people who admit they're fallible. There can hardly be anything more foolish than seeking knowledge from people who admit they don't have the truth. :o But that's the illogic of atheists. :

We've been through this. The ability to change one's mind upon the introduction of new evidence is one of the beauties and strengths of science, that faith does not possess. A person of faith cannot change their mind when disproof is introduced. The Bible is not an infallible source; it is totally unreliable for many reasons, including its many contradictions, its scientific inaccuracies, the moral attrocities contained within it, and incorrect assumptions about the natural world.