[_ Old Earth _] To those who take the Bible literally...

[reznwerks]

flood

Was the Flood global?
by Don Batten (editor), Ken Ham, Jonathan Sarfati, and Carl Wieland

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Ar ... obal10.asp

Biblical evidence for the global Flood

The local flood idea is totally inconsistent with the Bible, as the following points demonstrate:

The need for the Ark

If the Flood were local, why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and escaped. Traveling just 20 km per day, Noah and his family could have traveled over 3,000 km in six months. God could have simply warned Noah to flee, as He did for Lot in Sodom.

The size of the Ark

If the Flood were local, why was the Ark big enough to hold all the different kinds of land vertebrate animals in the world? If only Mesopotamian animals were aboard, or only domestic animals, the Ark could have been much smaller.1

The need for animals to be on the Ark

If the Flood were local, why did God send the animals to the Ark to escape death? There would have been other animals to reproduce those kinds even if they had all died in the local area. Or He could have sent them to a non-flooded region.

The need for birds to be on the Ark

If the Flood were local, why would birds have been sent on board? These could simply have winged across to a nearby mountain range. Birds can fly several hundred kilometers in one day.

The judgment was universal

If the Flood were local, people who did not happen to be living in the vicinity would not have been affected by it. They would have escaped God’s judgment on sin. It boggles the mind to believe that, after all those centuries since creation, no one had migrated to other partsâ€â€or that people living on the periphery of such a local flood would not have moved to the adjoining high ground rather than be drowned. Jesus believed that the Flood killed everyone not on the Ark (Matt. 24:37–39).

Of course those who want to believe in a local flood generally say that the world is old and that people were here for many tens of thousands of years before the Flood. If this were the case, it is inconceivable that all the people could have fitted in a localized valley in Mesopotamia, for example, or that they had not migrated further afield as the population grew.

The Flood was a type of the judgment to come

What did Christ mean when He likened the coming world judgment to the judgment of ‘all’ men (Matt. 24:37–39) in the days of Noah? In 2 Peter 3, the coming judgment by fire is likened to the former judgment by water in Noah’s Flood. A partial judgment in Noah’s day would mean a partial judgment to come.

The waters were above the mountains

If the Flood were local, how could the waters rise to 15 cubits (8 meters) above the mountains (Gen. 7:20)? Water seeks its own level. It could not rise to cover the local mountains while leaving the rest of the world untouched.2

The duration of the Flood

Noah and company were on the Ark for one year and 10 days (Gen. 7:11, 8:14)â€â€surely an excessive amount of time for any local flood? It was more than seven months before the tops of any mountains became visible. How could they drift around in a local flood for that long without seeing any mountains?

God’s promise broken?

If the Flood were local, God would have repeatedly broken His promise never to send such a Flood again. There have been huge ‘local’ floods in recent times: in Bangladesh, for example, where 80% of that country has been inundated, or Europe in 2002.

All people are descendants of Noah and his family

The genealogies of Adam (Gen. 4:17–26, 5:1–31) and Noah (Gen. 10:1–32) are exclusiveâ€â€they tell us that all the pre-Flood people came from Adam and all the post-Flood people came from Noah. The descendants of Noah were all living together at Babel and refusing to ‘fill the earth,’ as they had been commanded (Gen. 9:1). So God confused their one language into many and scattered them (Gen. 11:1–9).

There is striking evidence that all peoples on earth have come from Noah, found in the Flood stories from many cultures around the worldâ€â€North and South America, South Sea Islands, Australia, Papua New Guinea, Japan, China, India, the Middle East, Europe and Africa. Hundreds of such stories have been gathered.3 The stories closest to the area of dispersion from Babel are nearest in detail to the biblical accountâ€â€for example, the Gilgamesh epic.

Of course the 'local flood" story is inconsistant with the bible account. However the the whole world is a lot bigger than the middle east . The whole world lacks evidence of a world wide flood. That speaks volumes and trumps myth.

 

[Vanaka]

Yes , you would expect to find dead things. We do. However I think you would even agree that IF there were a flood you would expect to find ALL these things in random order of being found. WE DON'T. We find more advanced creatures at the top of the layers and less evolved creatures the further down we dig. THIS is what you would expect to find in the evolutionary process and the evidence doesn't support a biblical flood.

acually it wouldnt be in random order,my dad did this one experiment(I was like five or somthing (I think so,because I dont remeber it) at the time
anyhow,he took a box,some litle toy animals,and some dirt,pour some water in and shook it up,the water went to the top,then soaked in I think....
anyhow the dirt was in layers and the bigger animals were at the bottom,and the smaller animals closer to the top,and thats the case we have today,BTW,there is no such thing as "less evolved"all those creatures they find are creatures we have today(with the exception of extinct animals)
BTW if when your talking about the "missing links" when you say "less Evolved" then boy have I got news for you,
all your "missing links"have turned out to be human skull were the jaw is replaced with that of an ape(or visa versa) or artistry.

First of all NOAH used PITCH to cover the outside of his ark. Pitch is an oil byproduct so therefore your explanation does not cover the claim. Secondly if you talk to any oil expert they will tell you that oil is seeping up from under the ocean depths and they don't know how that oil got there.It couldn't have gotten there from compressed vegetation. How many forrest does it take to make a barrel of oil? Did you ever think about that? If all the oil is the result of the flood then we have to assume that all the vegetation on the planet was converted to oil. To make a long story short oil is supposedly a very condensed form of vegetation. The earth isn't big enough to support enough vegetation that would be needed to create all the oil that we have used so far and that we know still exists in just one event. You have to think a little bit when you are asked to believe these stories.

and you happen to know that because.........?
you were there :o ! wait.....then wouldnt you be dead?
oh I get it,you climbed the mountain that the ark is suposed to be on without getting zapped by lightning or dying? no wait.....you couldnt have because it would be in history book and stuff.......

Secondly if you talk to any oil expert they will tell you that oil is seeping up from under the ocean depths and they don't know how that oil got there.

no duh,whole continets fliped over and stuff,if you cant figure that one out,then my words are falling on deaf ears.

but then,the bible does predict that :roll:

How many forrest does it take to make a barrel of oil?

how many trees that were probably around triple the size of ours today does it take to make one barrel of oil?


Bisides its not just Vegeitation,its also corpses and stuff.....



and these are no "stories",and if they are,they are certainly better explantions then all of the storys Evoulution has come up with so far.

Of course the 'local flood" story is inconsistant with the bible account. However the the whole world is a lot bigger than the middle east . The whole world lacks evidence of a world wide flood. That speaks volumes and trumps myth.

the whole world screams evidence,and the only myth it trumps is Evolution,it just that all of our evidence is ignored because poeple have a tendancy to see only what they want to see.

 

[Quid]

acually it wouldnt be in random order,my dad did this one experiment(I was like five or somthing (I think so,because I dont remeber it) at the time
anyhow,he took a box,some litle toy animals,and some dirt,pour some water in and shook it up,the water went to the top,then soaked in I think....
anyhow the dirt was in layers and the bigger animals were at the bottom,and the smaller animals closer to the top,and thats the case we have today.

1. The dynamics of a global flood would differ from that of a box.
2. There were dinosaurs that were the size of chickens. Why is it that they're further down than Mammoths?

 

[bibleberean]

Those who don't take the bible for what it says are extremely weak in the faith.

In fact they are anemic.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

These same people don't read the bible for what it says and then have the gall to say we make it say what it doesn't. :smt017

Even some Atheists can see that the bible clearly states that there was a literal global flood and that the creation of Adam and Eve by God is to be taken literally.

Jesus took it literally and since He is God so should true believers.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;


I stand by the bible and what it says. If people have a problem with that then too bad... 8-)

 

[Wertbag]

bigger animals were at the bottom,and the smaller animals closer to the top,and thats the case we have today

This is not what is seen by the fossil record, we have no mammals lower down and no dinosaurs above, size doesn't come into the sorting it all.

oh I get it,you climbed the mountain that the ark is suposed to be on without getting zapped by lightning or dying? no wait.....you couldnt have because it would be in history book and stuff.......

Zapped by lightning? Why?
Yes hundreds of people have climbed all of the different mountains that are claimed to have the Ark on them. None of these expeditions have found evidence of a giant boat.

no duh,whole continets fliped over and stuff

Whole continents flipped over?! That statement is one of the strangest claims I've ever heard...

The Grand canyon

Shows slow erosion over long periods of time, its actually a major reason against a global flood (eg if the same event happened world wide we should see the same formations world wide yet this isnt' the case).

lots of dead things(oil and fossils)

Oil and fossils take time and the right conditions, neither of which the global flood supplies.

 

[reznwerks]

Yes , you would expect to find dead things. We do. However I think you would even agree that IF there were a flood you would expect to find ALL these things in random order of being found. WE DON'T. We find more advanced creatures at the top of the layers and less evolved creatures the further down we dig. THIS is what you would expect to find in the evolutionary process and the evidence doesn't support a biblical flood.

acually it wouldnt be in random order,my dad did this one experiment(I was like five or somthing (I think so,because I dont remeber it) at the time
anyhow,he took a box,some litle toy animals,and some dirt,pour some water in and shook it up,the water went to the top,then soaked in I think....
anyhow the dirt was in layers and the bigger animals were at the bottom,and the smaller animals closer to the top,and thats the case we have today,
Your father just disproved the flood story to you and you didn't get it. That is exactly what would be found if a flood did occur. The fact is that IS NOT what is found . The larger more complex animals are found at the top and less developed older species are found in the lower levels of strata as you would expect in an evolutionary setting.



BTW,there is no such thing as "less evolved"all those creatures they find are creatures we have today(with the exception of extinct animals)
BTW if when your talking about the "missing links" when you say "less Evolved" then boy have I got news for you,
all your "missing links"have turned out to be human skull were the jaw is replaced with that of an ape(or visa versa) or artistry.
Sorry but you are incorrect. There are certain traits that are human and certain traits that are ape and the two are not intertwined which is how they make the distinction.





[quote:7b40f]First of all NOAH used PITCH to cover the outside of his ark. Pitch is an oil byproduct so therefore your explanation does not cover the claim. Secondly if you talk to any oil expert they will tell you that oil is seeping up from under the ocean depths and they don't know how that oil got there.It couldn't have gotten there from compressed vegetation. How many forrest does it take to make a barrel of oil? Did you ever think about that? If all the oil is the result of the flood then we have to assume that all the vegetation on the planet was converted to oil. To make a long story short oil is supposedly a very condensed form of vegetation. The earth isn't big enough to support enough vegetation that would be needed to create all the oil that we have used so far and that we know still exists in just one event. You have to think a little bit when you are asked to believe these stories.

and you happen to know that because.........?
The bible told me so. Read it.
you were there :o ! wait.....then wouldnt you be dead?

You were there to confirm the flood?

oh I get it,you climbed the mountain that the ark is suposed to be on without getting zapped by lightning or dying? no wait.....you couldnt have because it would be in history book and stuff.......
Oh I get it you believe the ark is on a mountain because someone told you it was there.

Secondly if you talk to any oil expert they will tell you that oil is seeping up from under the ocean depths and they don't know how that oil got there.

no duh,whole continets fliped over and stuff,if you cant figure that one out,then my words are falling on deaf ears.
I have never heard anyone suggest that continents flipped over like pie plates. You are correct I never even considered that possibility. I wonder if there is any evidence of topsoil about 10 MILES DOWN!

but then,the bible does predict that :roll:
What is predictable is that the story tellers knew no one would believe it because it is unbelievable. If I was going to to perpetrate an untruth that I wanted someone to believe just think how cunning it would be of me to head the doubters off at the pass and publicly state that people would not believe the story I am telling but it is true none the less.

How many forrest does it take to make a barrel of oil?

how many trees that were probably around triple the size of ours today does it take to make one barrel of oil?
I don't care how big the trees were or if every square inch of land were covered by trees and one hundred percent of the vegetation went into the making of the oil the land area is not big enough to have produced the amount of oil that we have used and are using and the amount of oil that is still proved to exist and the amount of oil that is still undiscovered. Comparing oil to vegetation is like making maple syrup. It takes something like 53 gallons of liquid boiled down to make one gallon of syrup.So how many forrests does it take to make one barrel of oil? Do the math.


Bisides its not just Vegeitation,its also corpses and stuff.....
Add whatever you want. As I said I don't care if every square inch of earth was covered and one hundred percent of all living things went into making oil there is not enough mass there to produce what is there.



and these are no "stories",and if they are,they are certainly better explantions then all of the storys Evoulution has come up with so far.
You may not like what evolution says but it has evidence and your side does not.

Of course the 'local flood" story is inconsistant with the bible account. However the the whole world is a lot bigger than the middle east . The whole world lacks evidence of a world wide flood. That speaks volumes and trumps myth.

the whole world screams evidence,and the only myth it trumps is Evolution,it just that all of our evidence is ignored because poeple have a tendancy to see only what they want to see.
The whole orld is laughing at us in case you haven't heard. Europe can't understand how this technological giant (the US) is even having a discussion about creationism. As to seeing what we want to see , we see what is there and creationists see what isn't there.

[/quote:7b40f]

 

[bibleberean]

What Christian cares what the world thinks or laughs at?

It is atheists that need to be concerned. The God they are too foolish to admit exists is the one who will have the last word.

Psalms 53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Psalms 2:7-12 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

 

[Frost Giant]

Wow, the Bible predicted that people wouldn't just take it at face value as the word of God without evidence. Only the word of God could have made such a prediction!

 

[reznwerks]

last word

What Christian cares what the world thinks or laughs at?

It is atheists that need to be concerned. The God they are too foolish to admit exists is the one who will have the last word.

].

Atheists have nothing to fear from a God who has not made himself known. I think the creator of the universe has better things to do than get himself all ruffled up over unbelief especially since there are good reasons for the unbelief and that is mainy no evidence.There are far more serious infractions than doubt. A loving God will look the other way since all our sins have already been forgiven. This is what they call grace isn't it? I am saved because Jesus already died for my sins and since the bible says all men have sinned I am in the same boat as you it appears.

 

[bibleberean]

Re: last word

What Christian cares what the world thinks or laughs at?

It is atheists that need to be concerned. The God they are too foolish to admit exists is the one who will have the last word.

].

Atheists have nothing to fear from a God who has not made himself known. I think the creator of the universe has better things to do than get himself all ruffled up over unbelief especially since there are good reasons for the unbelief and that is mainy no evidence.There are far more serious infractions than doubt. A loving God will look the other way since all our sins have already been forgiven. This is what they call grace isn't it? I am saved because Jesus already died for my sins and since the bible says all men have sinned I am in the same boat as you it appears.

God has made Himself known.

Romans 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

That doesn't mean fools won't make excuses. The main reasons an atheist hangs out in a Christian forum is to make excuses and reveal their foolish heart.

There is no such thing as a true atheist.

The true definition of an Atheist is fool who has lied in his own heart.

Psalms 53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

An atheist is a person living in a state of denial.

A fool has much to fear.

Believers will be vindicated in the future. The obnoxious skeptic will be put in their place.

2 Thessalonians 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2 Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Every knee will bow.

Romans 14:11-12 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

[Heidi]

Re: last word

What Christian cares what the world thinks or laughs at?

It is atheists that need to be concerned. The God they are too foolish to admit exists is the one who will have the last word.

].

Atheists have nothing to fear from a God who has not made himself known. I think the creator of the universe has better things to do than get himself all ruffled up over unbelief especially since there are good reasons for the unbelief and that is mainy no evidence.There are far more serious infractions than doubt. A loving God will look the other way since all our sins have already been forgiven. This is what they call grace isn't it? I am saved because Jesus already died for my sins and since the bible says all men have sinned I am in the same boat as you it appears.

I guess you'll find out when you die what you should have feared. God has indeed made himself known through the miracle of your life for which you give credit to apes instead. He has also made himself known through His miraculous creation around us for which you look to scientists for the answers instead of God. And God has made himself shown to us through the iraculous nature of Jesus Christ whom you reject and say was either lying or a figment of our imagination, even though there's no proof of that whatsoever. So your repeated rejection of God and denial of his existence is what will keep you separated from Him throughout all of eternity. And you will also be held accountable for your arrogance in thinking that you know better than Christ or our Father in heaven what the truth is.

And you indeed are in the same boat as the rest of us. We have simply admitted our sins and felt remorse for them enough to want forgiveness for them. You either don't admit your sins, or feel remorse for them enough to want forgiveness. And that is the only difference between you and Christians.

 

[reznwerks]

Re: last word

What Christian cares what the world thinks or laughs at?

It is atheists that need to be concerned. The God they are too foolish to admit exists is the one who will have the last word.

].

Atheists have nothing to fear from a God who has not made himself known. I think the creator of the universe has better things to do than get himself all ruffled up over unbelief especially since there are good reasons for the unbelief and that is mainy no evidence.There are far more serious infractions than doubt. A loving God will look the other way since all our sins have already been forgiven. This is what they call grace isn't it? I am saved because Jesus already died for my sins and since the bible says all men have sinned I am in the same boat as you it appears.

I guess you'll find out when you die what you should have feared.
I don't want to worship a God that I need to fear and that is not what the bible says. A loving God is not going to condemn me or punish me for doubt. You'll see.


God has indeed made himself known through the miracle of your life for which you give credit to apes instead. He has also made himself known through His miraculous creation around us for which you look to scientists for the answers instead of God. And God has made himself shown to us through the iraculous nature of Jesus Christ whom you reject and say was either lying or a figment of our imagination, even though there's no proof of that whatsoever.
I will agree that life and all the reality I see is indeed a miracle but attributing it to a supernatural being as being responsible is a bit premature as the "being" has yet to be confirmed. I have not said Jesus was lying but I do reject his reality for the simple reason no one outside the bible records anything about him and for the many similar stories mimiking Jesus and his life which existed pre Christianity. Making the challenge of proving Jesus was lying or non existant is the same challenge of proving a negative which cannot be done. It's like me making the challenge to you to prove when you stopped beating your children.


So your repeated rejection of God and denial of his existence is what will keep you separated from Him throughout all of eternity. And you will also be held accountable for your arrogance in thinking that you know better than Christ or our Father in heaven what the truth is.
I really find it hard to believe that the creator of the universe will hold "belief" in that high of a regard when it comes time to handing out rewards if rewards are indeed to be handed out. I can't really accept that the creator of the universe would go to all this trouble of creation for the simple vanity of having low lifes like man bow down to him and proclaim "they believe.

And you indeed are in the same boat as the rest of us. We have simply admitted our sins and felt remorse for them enough to want forgiveness for them. You either don't admit your sins, or feel remorse for them enough to want forgiveness. And that is the only difference between you and Christians.
I don't consider myself a Christian so I have no sins however I do get along well enough with those around me to probably slip in under the tent if indeed there is to be a tent.

 

[Heidi]

Re: last word

What Christian cares what the world thinks or laughs at?

It is atheists that need to be concerned. The God they are too foolish to admit exists is the one who will have the last word.

].

Atheists have nothing to fear from a God who has not made himself known. I think the creator of the universe has better things to do than get himself all ruffled up over unbelief especially since there are good reasons for the unbelief and that is mainy no evidence.There are far more serious infractions than doubt. A loving God will look the other way since all our sins have already been forgiven. This is what they call grace isn't it? I am saved because Jesus already died for my sins and since the bible says all men have sinned I am in the same boat as you it appears.

I guess you'll find out when you die what you should have feared.
I don't want to worship a God that I need to fear and that is not what the bible says. A loving God is not going to condemn me or punish me for doubt. You'll see.


God has indeed made himself known through the miracle of your life for which you give credit to apes instead. He has also made himself known through His miraculous creation around us for which you look to scientists for the answers instead of God. And God has made himself shown to us through the iraculous nature of Jesus Christ whom you reject and say was either lying or a figment of our imagination, even though there's no proof of that whatsoever.
I will agree that life and all the reality I see is indeed a miracle but attributing it to a supernatural being as being responsible is a bit premature as the "being" has yet to be confirmed. I have not said Jesus was lying but I do reject his reality for the simple reason no one outside the bible records anything about him and for the many similar stories mimiking Jesus and his life which existed pre Christianity. Making the challenge of proving Jesus was lying or non existant is the same challenge of proving a negative which cannot be done. It's like me making the challenge to you to prove when you stopped beating your children.


So your repeated rejection of God and denial of his existence is what will keep you separated from Him throughout all of eternity. And you will also be held accountable for your arrogance in thinking that you know better than Christ or our Father in heaven what the truth is.
I really find it hard to believe that the creator of the universe will hold "belief" in that high of a regard when it comes time to handing out rewards if rewards are indeed to be handed out. I can't really accept that the creator of the universe would go to all this trouble of creation for the simple vanity of having low lifes like man bow down to him and proclaim "they believe.

And you indeed are in the same boat as the rest of us. We have simply admitted our sins and felt remorse for them enough to want forgiveness for them. You either don't admit your sins, or feel remorse for them enough to want forgiveness. And that is the only difference between you and Christians.
I don't consider myself a Christian so I have no sins however I do get along well enough with those around me to probably slip in under the tent if indeed there is to be a tent.

Have you even looked for confirmation outside the bible? :o I have and it's everywhere! I was just reading a book on Greece and they mentioned Christ's death. I also just saw a documentary on the history channel about the Caesars and they mentioned Christ's life and death. You'll find his birth and death in all world history books! Your post comes from a lack of knowledge and denial. So I suggest you do your research before you show your ignorance again, my friend. :wink:

 

[soma]

Edited

By moderator

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[reznwerks]

Re: last word

[

[/quote]

Have you even looked for confirmation outside the bible?
Absolutely.

:o I have and it's everywhere! I was just reading a book on Greece and they mentioned Christ's death.
The Brittanica also mentions Christs death but only as reference from the bible. The Brittanica also mentions Hercules , Zeus and a number of other "Gods" all of which I fail to believe existed.

I also just saw a documentary on the history channel about the Caesars and they mentioned Christ's life and death.
I've said many times that outside of the bible their is not one first hand evidence of Jesus existance. If you can find it please post it. I don't know what you watched but the next time you watch it pay close attention as to who the producers are and the reference material they are citing.

You'll find his birth and death in all world history books!
Only as referenced from the bible or from sources hundreds of years in the future. You cannot find one first hand source that mentions Jesus at the time he was supposed to have existed. Josephus was the best you could have hoped for and his work is considered a forgery by the experts and I really don't want to have to go repost all that again. You have a computer and I am sure you know how to do the searches if you want to find out.

Your post comes from a lack of knowledge and denial. So I suggest you do your research before you show your ignorance again, my friend. :wink:
I use more than one source for my convictions you use only one that should tell you volumes.

[/quote]

 

[reznwerks]

Re: last word

[

Have you even looked for confirmation outside the bible? :

Have you?

 

[Heidi]

Re: last word

[

Have you even looked for confirmation outside the bible?
Absolutely.

:o I have and it's everywhere! I was just reading a book on Greece and they mentioned Christ's death.
The Brittanica also mentions Christs death but only as reference from the bible. The Brittanica also mentions Hercules , Zeus and a number of other "Gods" all of which I fail to believe existed.

I also just saw a documentary on the history channel about the Caesars and they mentioned Christ's life and death.
I've said many times that outside of the bible their is not one first hand evidence of Jesus existance. If you can find it please post it. I don't know what you watched but the next time you watch it pay close attention as to who the producers are and the reference material they are citing.

You'll find his birth and death in all world history books!
Only as referenced from the bible or from sources hundreds of years in the future. You cannot find one first hand source that mentions Jesus at the time he was supposed to have existed. Josephus was the best you could have hoped for and his work is considered a forgery by the experts and I really don't want to have to go repost all that again. You have a computer and I am sure you know how to do the searches if you want to find out.

Your post comes from a lack of knowledge and denial. So I suggest you do your research before you show your ignorance again, my friend. :wink:
I use more than one source for my convictions you use only one that should tell you volumes.

[/quote][/quote]

Sorry, but I have listed my sources. Saying that only the bible talks about Christ is not only untrue, but that's like me saying that since no books outside history books talk about Caesar, that proves that Caesar didn't exist! Your arguments are very weak, my friend.

And no book outside of the bible calls Christ's life a legend. Our present-day calendar is based on his life and has been for thousands of years! Christ's life has impacted the world so much that time is referenced by B.C. and A.D. This was also predicted in Genesis, by the way. Your lack of belief is based on zero evidence but instead, denial.

I also want to add that the fact that the only person's existence you try to deny is Christ's, shows how much you want him to go away. Very telling indeed. :wink:

 

[bibleberean]

I take the bible literally...

Genesis 2:21-24 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

God formed the first woman from Adam's rib.

Does the bible say Eve was the first woman?

Yes, and she is the woman from which all have mankind came from.

Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

Jesus quotes Genesis 2:24. Those who claim that Genesis should not be taken literally must believe that Jesus was either a liar or ignorant.

Man died spiritually and began to die physically after the fall.

Genesis 3:17-19 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Eternal life is a basic Christian doctrine. The curse of suffering and death after the fall will be undone.

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Life eternal

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Evolution and the bible do not go together.

 

[Heidi]

Every word in the bible is the truth because it is God inspired. It is the living word just as God is the living God.

 

[reznwerks]

Re: last word

[

Sorry, but I have listed my sources. Saying that only the bible talks about Christ is not only untrue, but that's like me saying that since no books outside history books talk about Caesar, that proves that Caesar didn't exist! Your arguments are very weak, my friend.
You are not paying attention to detail. Sure their are a lot of books that talk about Jesus. However what I want to see is the evidence of reference that should have occurred when Jesus was alive or supposed to have existed. There is none, plain and simple. As for Caesar there is plenty of varied reference to Caesar and none for Jesus.

And no book outside of the bible calls Christ's life a legend. Our present-day calendar is based on his life and has been for thousands of years!
Our calender basis means nothing in so far as veryfying the reality of Jesus. No one doubts Christianty exists. Stories get passed down whether they are true or not true. People naturally want to belong and believe the promises being told them. That is not proof of the claim.

Christ's life has impacted the world so much that time is referenced by B.C. and A.D.
No one argues what BC and Ad are referenced to but everyone agrees that no firm date exists as to when or if Jesus ever existed. Even those who say he lived do so with the understanding that he may have lived withing a span of 4 to 12 years. Historians just needed a way to date events and did so but that is not proof of any confirmation of Jesus.

This was also predicted in Genesis, by the way. Your lack of belief is based on zero evidence but instead, denial. :
There is nothing predicted in Genesis as to the coming of Jesus. God did his work and declared it was very good. End of story or that is how it was supposed to end.

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I also want to add that the fact that the only person's existence you try to deny is Christ's, shows how much you want him to go away. Very telling indeed. :wink:
I don't try to deny it. I nor anyone else have enough evidence to confirm his existance. Why do I want Jesus to go away? As I said Christians have the best game in town if it were true. Just endure this little boot camp , convince myself this is all real and ohlala I get to spend eternity in lala land. Come on Heidi , do you think all of us selfish atheists wouldn't grab on to that if we thought it possible or even likely?Do you really think we are all possessed by the devil and somehow we are going to get an even bigger reward for debating Christians by the devil himself?The fact is atheists know more about the bible than Christians but they will never admit it.