Bible Study Tongues in the Old Testament.

[Dave...]

Free

Thanks for taking time to respond. I know this can be tedious.

Follow me on this. Just to clarify, when we are saying hearing, we mean understanding, right? I mean, everybody can hear someone speak in any language, except for the deaf. But not all understand what they are hearing. So hearing, I'm assuming that we all agree, carries the idea of understanding.

On that there are two things that most if not all Charismatics and Pentecostals believe. Not sure if you do, but none the less, for the sake of argument.

1) The gift of languages in Acts (Pentecost) is the same as the gift of languages in Corinth. That means both are always supernatural.

2) The supernatural gift is in the speaking, not the hearing (understanding). As has been stated many times in this thread.

Which takes us to Corinth. Based on those two beliefs above, the gift of interpretation (hearing, as you call it) cannot be supernatural because the gift is in the speaking, not the hearing. The gift of interpretation would need to be a person who simply knows the language and interprets it for others to understand. And also, if both the gift of speaking in languages, which is always supernatural because it is the same as in Acts, and the gift of interpretation (hearing) are both supernatural, then we have established the supernatural gift of speaking in languages and the supernatural gift of hearing (interpretation), at Corinth, are both working simultaneously at the same time. Just sayin'.

That takes me back to Pentecost. 120 people all speaking at the same time. And a person can not only pick out the one, or ones, that are speaking his language, but also he can understand it without shushing everyone else seems a bit odd. All, I'm saying is that it's a red flag and deserves to be looked into. It doesn't overturn the the fact that the supernatural gift of languages was spoken at Pentecost.

I know those whose definitions of these passages already fits their narrative will have no need to look further. I just can't do that. I need to turn over every stone. I don't see very much that can elaborate on this passage right off hand other than checking other translations and the original languages to see if there is something in Acts 2:8 that may shed some more light. I think it would be revealing if the hearing was hearing them, and not just hearing, or hearing some of them. Them being 'all these Galileans'. Anyways, I'm just doing what a good Berean should do.

Dave

 

[Hopeful 2]

Follow me on this. Just to clarify, when we are saying hearing, we mean understanding, right? I mean, everybody can hear someone speak in any language, except for the deaf. But not all understand what they are hearing. So hearing, I'm assuming that we all agree, carries the idea of understanding.

I wasn't involved with that discussion, so won't comment.

On that there are two things that most if not all Charismatics and Pentecostals believe. Not sure if you do, but none the less, for the sake of argument.
1) The gift of languages in Acts (Pentecost) is the same as the gift of languages in Corinth. That means both are always supernatural.

Two kinds of tongues are mentioned in Corinthians.
1. Various languages, and 2. the tongues between the Spirit within the converted and God.

2) The supernatural gift is in the speaking, not the hearing (understanding). As has been stated many times in this thread.

Speaking, and interpreting, are gifts.

Which takes us to Corinth. Based on those two beliefs above, the gift of interpretation (hearing, as you call it) cannot be supernatural because the gift is in the speaking, not the hearing

Three gifts were mentioned in 1 Corinthians.
1. The Sprit of God speaking from the converted, 2. the interpretation of that heavenly language, 3. speaking in a foreign tongue so a foreign person can understand. (like Pentecost)

The gift of interpretation would need to be a person who simply knows the language and interprets it for others to understand.

Yes, if the sort of tongues is not the gift of the Holy Ghost speaking from the converted to God...(or if an interpreter is present, to the church).

And also, if both the gift of speaking in languages, which is always supernatural because it is the same as in Acts, and the gift of interpretation (hearing) are both supernatural, then we have established the supernatural gift of speaking in languages and the supernatural gift of hearing (interpretation), at Corinth, are both working simultaneously at the same time. Just sayin'.

Both are gifts from God.
But why call it hearing, when it is called interpretation in 1 Cor. ?

That takes me back to Pentecost. 120 people all speaking at the same time.

Who says they were all speaking at the same time ?

And a person can not only pick out the one, or ones, that are speaking his language, but also he can understand it without shushing everyone else seems a bit odd. All, I'm saying is that it's a red flag and deserves to be looked into. It doesn't overturn the the fact that the supernatural gift of languages was spoken at Pentecost.

Paul told the church at Corinth to speak two, or at the most three at a time, and in an orderly fashion, (1 Cor 14:27), so I see no need to think the apostles, and the rest of the 120, were all speaking at the same time.

I know those whose definitions of these passages already fits their narrative will have no need to look further. I just can't do that. I need to turn over every stone. I don't see very much that can elaborate on this passage right off hand other than checking other translations and the original languages to see if there is something in Acts 2:8 that may shed some more light. I think it would be revealing if the hearing was hearing them, and not just hearing, or hearing some of them. Them being 'all these Galileans'. Anyways, I'm just doing what a good Berean should do.
Dave

Three gifts.
The language of angels...Spirit to God, usually in prayer, but also interetable for the church's good.
Foreign languages...for the good of unbelieving bystanders.
The interpretation of either.

 

[hawkman]

The gift of interpretation would need to be a person who simply knows the language and interprets it for others to understand.

No . A person with the gift of speaking in tongues speaks in tongues in a language not known to them or the person with the gift of interpretation . An unknown tongue . The Holy Spirit gives the interpreter through the gift of interpretation the translation of the message given . It is taking two supernatural events from two gifts to get the message from the Holy Spirit to the congregation .
I have seen people with both gifts , the gift of tongues and the gift of interpretation . I have the gift of tongues .

1 Corinthians 14:27​

“If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.”