Top 5 Issues Cristians Face In America?

[LostSoul]

"2. Seperation of Church & State....the state should truly have not much, if any part in what defines the written word....makes it....or how a Christian should live in terms of marriage, etc."

Lostlamb: Just to clarify, by "defines the written word" are you speaking about the word of God? How do you think the state does this? Do you see the state allowing Gay marriage as an infringement on your rights to marriage. I suppose I am just confused by what you mean when you say that the state shouldn't tell Christian's how to live when it seems to me that marriage being only between a man and woman because it is biblical is sort of the opposite of that?

To clarify and summarize to separate church and state would mean that there would be zero interference between the two. If the state passes a law that says gays can marry then that is the state creating a law free of theology- in a sense- however it now requires Christians to live in a country that endorses sin, which many laws already do. (i.e abortion, prostitution, drug use.) On the other hand if Christians wish for the state to ban gay marriage based on homosexuality being immoral then that is Christianity imposing itself in the form of law on the rights of others. Now believe me I am not trying to argue with you. I am just wondering if you can see it that way. I do respect your opinion and especially your right to fight against something you do not stand for, I would be ashamed if you did not. However my goal with this project I am working on is to bridge gaps not create converts.

With gay marriage, is it just the word marriage? What if a civil union gave a gay couple the same exact rights? What would be the difference in your opinion, please?

Brandon,

The church is who marries people yes? What I am basically implying here is that the State should not force or make the church marry two men or two women when their beliefs are clearly against it. No doubt, I do feel that those who are intimate and have such interest in living those sort of lifestyles should not be persecuted because of it and treated unequally. But...sometimes I have to wonder....how far is too far?

Another big issue I have with the church and state is the church cannot enter into a number of state controlled things such as school systems and the like...yet somehow the state can sometimes seem to impede on what is acceptable in terms of the church. Such as the whole growing issue of civil union and marriage between same gender couples.

I apologize should I not be making much sense or still come across as vague.

 

[Vic C.]

The church is who marries people yes?

Not always. Civil or secular marriages are often performed outside the church by anyone the state declare legal to perform marriages. The Captain of a ship in international waters is qualified. Go to Vegas and any number of Elvis look-alikes can do it too.

What I am basically implying here is that the State should not force or make the church marry two men or two women when their beliefs are clearly against it.

You are correct. But they don't and they can't force any church to perform same sex marriages. Many churches for one, forbid it and it would also be a major breech of the first amendment's establishment clause.

Another big issue I have with the church and state is the church cannot enter into a number of state controlled things such as school systems and the like...yet somehow the state can sometimes seem to impede on what is acceptable in terms of the church. Such as the whole growing issue of civil union and marriage between same gender couples.

Now this is a business issue, not one of religious beliefs. When churches agree to the government's qualifications on what it means to be a tax exempt organization, they are basically signing a business agreement between the government and their church. While this may seem ok, it does give the government certain "loopholes" around a few things the establishment clause would otherwise prohibit.

Churches have two choices; don't ever apply for tax exempt status in the first place or... if they already have and want more 'freedom', start paying taxes.


To get back on topic (sorry for the diversion), I have to agree with Veritas. He summed it up nicely.

 

[Lewis]

Secularism

 

[Brandon Bozarth]

Brandon,

The church is who marries people yes? What I am basically implying here is that the State should not force or make the church marry two men or two women when their beliefs are clearly against it. No doubt, I do feel that those who are intimate and have such interest in living those sort of lifestyles should not be persecuted because of it and treated unequally. But...sometimes I have to wonder....how far is too far?

Another big issue I have with the church and state is the church cannot enter into a number of state controlled things such as school systems and the like...yet somehow the state can sometimes seem to impede on what is acceptable in terms of the church. Such as the whole growing issue of civil union and marriage between same gender couples.

I apologize should I not be making much sense or still come across as vague. [/quote]

Fair enough. although the church would not be forced. I'm sure you are aware-you may not agree- that there are many gay churches. However most secular people are not married by priests although some may rent out churches to have their wedding, that is the church's choice to allow that. Ordaining marriage is in no way limited to priests, notary publics, cruise ship captains, justices of the peace and judges can and do perform marriages.

1.) What kind of involvement would Christians like to have in schools?
2.) Are you okay with civil unions, would it be okay if gays had the same rights and protection as people who were married. Ex. Life insurance, being covered under their partners health insurance etc.

 

[Brandon Bozarth]

Sorry Vic. C I didn't see that I repeated a lot of what you said.

 

[Brandon Bozarth]

Secularism

I hope this was said with a tone of humor. If so, kudos.

However throwing out things like this in a non humorous way is a slippery slope.

 

[Lewis]

[quote="Lewis W":a2yz8lql]Secularism

I hope this was said with a tone of humor. If so, kudos.

However throwing out things like this in a non humorous way is a slippery slope.[/quote:a2yz8lql]
I really, really meant that statement..

 

[Brandon Bozarth]

[quote="Brandon Bozarth":1h405e28][quote="Lewis W":1h405e28]Secularism

[/quote:1h405e28][/quote:1h405e28]

Well I really feel like that was an unnecessary cheap shot.

 

[Lewis]

I am entitled to my opinion, are I, or are I not ? Here in America I don't have to be executed because of it. If that is my view, that is my view. Just as you did not like my statement, well you are entitled to that.

 

[Brandon Bozarth]

I am entitled to my opinion, are I, or are I not ? Here in America I don't have to be executed because of it. If that is my view, that is my view. Just as you did not like my statement, well you are entitled to that.

Of course you are I just feel as though you have brought hostility into this forum where there wasn't any and everyone was getting along. Why? Are you offended by me being here, asking these questions? I feel as though I have been nothing less than polite and repectful.

 

[LostSoul]

Fair enough. although the church would not be forced. I'm sure you are aware-you may not agree- that there are many gay churches. However most secular people are not married by priests although some may rent out churches to have their wedding, that is the church's choice to allow that. Ordaining marriage is in no way limited to priests, notary publics, cruise ship captains, justices of the peace and judges can and do perform marriages.

1.) What kind of involvement would Christians like to have in schools?
2.) Are you okay with civil unions, would it be okay if gays had the same rights and protection as people who were married. Ex. Life insurance, being covered under their partners health insurance etc.

Well....when I was growing up in schools there were programs for Christian Athletes and the like. Even prayers allowed to be had at the flag poles, or assemblies for a time. Now days those sort of things are discouraged, if not...to say the least, not really financed. Whereas sports programs themselves are. Naturally the issue is not just in terms of Christian Athletes, but other after school programs such as FCCLA, Art, Theater, etc.

Civil unions....is sort of a stumper for me at times. Those who are intimate with people of the same gender I do feel should be able to get some of the same form of assistance that couples get, along with single mothers...such as food stamps, medicaid, etc. Should they indeed prove to be applicable based on the usual criteria. Which that in itself....at times proves another issue for me. However, I am not going to venture into that.

Just irks me...how today in the pledge of alliegance we have to question God's place being there. For even growing up there were some children who did not say it. By all means, no one should have to say it....but then those who do very much believe that God had a role in founding this country and have faith in God should not be silenced in terms of sharing it either.

Then it could be just me....

 

[Brandon Bozarth]

A few people have said this I think I agree, the media is the issue. Just as secular people are convinced that Christians are hypocritical clinic bombers and science deniers, so to do I think that the images of secular America fighting Christians is pushed. In my town almost every school has a group who participates in a meet by the pole day and mormons are even allowed to have their seminary meetings on school grounds where there is not a church near; there are many christian groups in the schools etc. All that in Las Vegas! And this is a very "blue" county. This is why I am trying to encourage dialogue and understanding. If we can get people to mediate and talk to each other and both sides to come out and say look this isn't how we are, this isn't how this is things could be a lot better!

 

[Lewis]

[quote="Lewis W":216ehetv]I am entitled to my opinion, are I, or are I not ? Here in America I don't have to be executed because of it. If that is my view, that is my view. Just as you did not like my statement, well you are entitled to that.

Of course you are I just feel as though you have brought hostility into this forum where there wasn't any and everyone was getting along. Why? Are you offended by me being here, asking these questions? I feel as though I have been nothing less than polite and repectful.[/quote:216ehetv]
This is a Christian web site, and you are going to get a whole bunch of stuff that you don't like. We are supposed to give a Biblical perspective, and we will. We and the secular will always clash at one time or another. And that is to be expected. And I can tell that you are not use to this site yet, because at times you are going to get stuff like that.

 

[Brandon Bozarth]

Well if that is how you want to represent Christianity by being territorial and rude than that is how people who come across you are going to judge Christians. I am personally having the opposite experience with everyone else on EVERY other forum. I don't feel like that comment was necessary. If you want me to get off of your Christian only site then ask me to leave and I will. No one will ever get anywhere if people only talk to their own which is why I reached out to you all, I wanted to learn, I wanted to hear what Christians thought. I mean I would love yo hear your opinion on things however to be as blunt as to say what is wrong with America, seculars is completely out of live as the context of this forum has been up until now very peaceful. I have never once blamed Christians fora single thing on any forum you can find me on. I wonder how you would feel after getting the nerve up to talk to a group of people on their forum about things you were curious about one of them bluntly attacks for the sake of, I'm not sure why, and said Christians were the biggest problem in this country. No explanation? No reason? Was it a preemptive attack? Do you think I have ulterior motives here?

 

[Lewis]

I can see that you just don't get it, what am I supposed to do not speak the truth because it might offend you ? That is why we have so many problems today, and that is because some Christians will not speak up, because it might offend the secular realm. Well I am not one of them. I gave you my answer and you did not like it, well there is nothing that I can do about that. You have blown this out of proportion. I was not trying to give you a smart alec answer, I was giving you what is in my heart, put there by my Lord. Are you here to start trouble ?

 

[Brandon Bozarth]

I was not trying to give you a smart alec answer, I was giving you what is in my heart, put there by my Lord. Are you here to start trouble ?

This why the first thing I asked was the context of you comment. If it was not a "smart alec" answer then great. I am glad that you shared what you feel in your heart. Please understand how I might have seen that as an attack and as a smart alec remark. However since you have clarified that it was merely a sincere feeling that you didn't feel needed further explanation then please excuse my "blowing it out of proportions." As for why I am here; does it seem as if I am trying to start trouble?

 

[Lewis]

If you are not, please forgive me, and lets move on.

 

[Brandon Bozarth]

I assure you I am not, yes lets. My apologies.

 

[Lewis]

Ok everything is cool Bro.