Tree of life in Genesis

[stovebolts]

Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.

In this account documented in Genesis, life in the Garden was sustained by the eating of the tree of life (Genesis 3:22). When Eve ate, Humanity was removed from the garden so that they could no longer eat fromt he tree of life and hence, they died. (Genesis 3:23)

Now, if YHWH created all things as "Very good" (Genesis 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.) then the next question has to be asked, "How did the serpent become corrupt if he was created good?"

Secondly, was removing humanity from the garden a blessing (not having to endure eternal life in sin) or a curse (they died)?

I'll be gone till Monday and I'll be interested in hearing your responses.

 

[AHIMSA]

I feel that the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge were two trees that grew from the same seed.

The Tree of Knowledge is dark, but is nevertheless life giving and holy because only through the Tree of Knowledge could humanity gain knowledge of itself and thefore know itself through God; the fruition of unique and individuated creation.

Adam and Eve were naked, but they did not know it. They lacked true awareness, knowing God but not knowing themselves as they did not see their true state before God; that they were naked and bare before their Lord.

Not understanding their vulnerability, how could they have proper fear of God? Without understanding themselves, how could they be in true awe before the Infinite?

It is not enought to only know God, but we must know God through knowing ourselves so that He shines through our individuality like light through a stained glass window. The Tree of Knowledge provided for this possiblity. It was in itself a tool of creation.

Before identity can be established, we must first separate from God, when that identity is understood we can return and re-integrate that identity back into the Holy One of Being.

The two trees are one serving the same holy purpose; the interplay of shadow and light.

 

[Relic]

"How did the serpent become corrupt if he was created good?"

Freedom of will. Satan was created before the Garden of Eden was created. Those scriptures you presented are about the creations God placed into this earth.

God and the devil are not ignorant of each others where abouts. God knew the where abouts of Satan well before he created the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve.

Evil existed when Satan decided to use his freedom of will in adversity of the goodness God placed in front of him, he fell from heaven. When do you think Satan fell from heaven? Do you think Satan has no place to roam? God gave Satan freedom of will to roam about wherever also. And until Christ comes to bind him again for a 1000 year period, we are going to be tempted by him. God knew this, that is why God WARNED Adam and Even to stay away from that tree. God knew corruption was already in existence to come to destroy all that He meant for good. God gave Satan freedom of will no differently than He gave us freedom of will.

I don't understand what you are trying to get at in questioning where corruption came into the scene because Satan was not created on this earth. He roams this earth, and God knew that before he created the Garden of Eden. ( a spot on this earth) Not the whole area of this earth. God meant for us to grow and multiply from that spot, not to be kicked out of it to toil outside of that realm of paradise. Do you see? That Satan has freedom to roam about this whole earth? Satan entered into that "spot on earth" The Garden of Eden AFTER God created it.

Clearly, the second Adam (the one who leads, and takes Godly charge) , Not like the wimp that the first Adam was, to not correct and lead Eve out of misguided suggestions, but to use her as an excuse for not taking lead) Jesus, taught us the correct way in which to respond to the tempter!

Matthew 4:4
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matthew 4:7
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Matthew 4:10-11
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

.

 

[TanNinety]

"How did the serpent become corrupt if he was created good?"

If I looked at Craig’s oil painting portraits and told him they were ‘good’ then does that mean his paintings had moral discernment and knew how to be good or evil? No, saying they were good, declares their design and purpose was achieved. God did not make the serpent incapable of being evil. When God declared everything good, it wasn’t a moral statement of there will be no corruption but that the good is in the design, where instead of making puppets He achieved making beings that are free to chose or reject Him. Now that is a good creation if you ask me.

Secondly, was removing humanity from the garden a blessing (not having to endure eternal life in sin) or a curse (they died)?

IMO, removing humanity from the garden, away from the tree of life is a ‘consequence’. God said the day you eat the forbidden fruit, you shall surely die, meaning you will not have access to the tree of life anymore. He did what He said He would.

It is both a blessing and a curse. Blessing that we are not able to sustain our lives forever being sinful and a curse because we are separated from our Father and are out of His strong personal presence.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Now, if YHWH created all things as "Very good" (Genesis 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.) then the next question has to be asked, "How did the serpent become corrupt if he was created good?"

I believe that the phrase 'very good' is key. Up to that moment everything was very good.

This says to me that the moment that the serpent caused the fall is also the moment that he sealed his fate. The account in the OT prophets may show us the account of satan making a decision to rebel against God. And it is many more books and chapters before we hear Jesus say that he saw satan fall like lightening from heaven. But I believe that when he was cast down to the earth, this is where he landed. Then the first thing he did was cause the fall of man.

For everything to be very good up to that point, satan could not have yet fallen. For him to cause the fall of man, in Gen. 3, he had to have fallen already.

 

[stranger]

I feel that the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge were two trees that grew from the same seed.

The Tree of Knowledge is dark, but is nevertheless life giving and holy because only through the Tree of Knowledge could humanity gain knowledge of itself and thefore know itself through God; the fruition of unique and individuated creation.

Adam and Eve were naked, but they did not know it. They lacked true awareness, knowing God but not knowing themselves as they did not see their true state before God; that they were naked and bare before their Lord.

Not understanding their vulnerability, how could they have proper fear of God? Without understanding themselves, how could they be in true awe before the Infinite?

It is not enought to only know God, but we must know God through knowing ourselves so that He shines through our individuality like light through a stained glass window. The Tree of Knowledge provided for this possiblity. It was in itself a tool of creation.

Before identity can be established, we must first separate from God, when that identity is understood we can return and re-integrate that identity back into the Holy One of Being.

The two trees are one serving the same holy purpose; the interplay of shadow and light.

Greetings Ahimsa,

Long time no see!

 

[stranger]

StoveBolts asked:

"How did the serpent become corrupt if he was created good?"

Hi StoveBolts,

In a similar way that Adam became corrupt though he was created very good.

 

[mutzrein]

StoveBolts - I see Jesus as the tree of life

The result of sin was death. ie Mankind was barred from eternal life and it is only though Christ that man can have (eternal) life.

And for this reason I believe that man is not an 'eternal' being from birth.

 

[Vic C.]

StoveBolts - I see Jesus as the tree of life....

Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

We have no access to this tree if it is Jesus.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Here (above) Jesus is referring to the tree as though it is something other than Himself. He already gave us thr "permission" to eat of "His" body here:

Matthew 26:26
________________________________________________________________________

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Hmm, who or what is this Tree of Life?

 

[stovebolts]

hmmm.... a lot of very intersting responses. I thank each and every one of you for your comments.

So, what do you all think the second half of my original post about God's promise that if they ate of the forbidden fruit, they would surely die?
Was it a punishment because they would would be seperated from the tree of life which sustained everlasting life or was it a blessing because they would not have to spend everlasting life in sin?

Thoughts?

BTW, these are just some odd questions that I'm asking myself and havn't come to a conclusion on. Thus, I hope this stays a theological topic and does not evolve into an apologetic debate.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

hmmm.... a lot of very intersting responses. I thank each and every one of you for your comments.

So, what do you all think the second half of my original post about God's promise that if they ate of the forbidden fruit, they would surely die?
Was it a punishment because they would would be seperated from the tree of life which sustained everlasting life or was it a blessing because they would not have to spend everlasting life in sin?

Both?
For both reasons that you stated. God's plan was to allow the holy man to eat from the tree of life and not from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The plan for the sinful man was to make a way to be forgiven, cleansed, and enter back into the Kingdom of God.

 

[stranger]

So, what do you all think the second half of my original post about God's promise that if they ate of the forbidden fruit, they would surely die?
Was it a punishment because they would would be seperated from the tree of life which sustained everlasting life or was it a blessing because they would not have to spend everlasting life in sin?

Thoughts?

Hi StoveBolts,

There is a difference between sustaining or obtaining everlasting life.

But I am interested in the other point - I have heard that man would be eternally confirmed in his state of sin had he managed to get to the tree of life in his sinful condition. This is firstly a what if situation. What if Adam had not disobeyed? I think a sober approach is required focusing on what happened not what did not happen. I also see the guarding of the tree of life as a consequence of Adam's disobedience. Adam's disobedience caused that very action - so to say what if it didn't is denying the generally accepted principle of cause and effect. What if the laws through which this physical universe operates did not function? There is also the issue of predestination - Christ died before the founding of the world. . .

The merit of the question raises the issue 'without repentance' which means not having the ability nor opportunity to ever repent. I believe this applies to the demonic hosts and Satan. Believe it or not I have had one person tell me he can't repent and another that he can't believe.

 

[xicali]

We have no access to this tree if it is Jesus.

Mutzrein, is right...

Before the Cross no body had The Mind of Christ as we have it under Grace.
When God declared: "...God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." Genesis 1:32

Indeed it was "VERY GOOD" for his purposes. Please note that up to the 6th day "It was very good" not so on on the seventh which is a type of Christ for it was declared sanctified and not "very Good".

"Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God" 1 Corinthians 1:24
If you have Christ in you thus His Spirit and Mind than you do have access to the tree of life.

Revelation is is a privilege and not a right.

 

[stranger]

Mutzrein, is right...

Before the Cross no body had The Mind of Christ as we have it under Grace.
When God declared: "...God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." Genesis 1:32

Indeed it was "VERY GOOD" for his purposes. Please note that up to the 6th day "It was very good" not so on on the seventh which is a type of Christ for it was declared sanctified and not "very Good".

"Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God" 1 Corinthians 1:24
If you have Christ in you thus His Spirit and Mind than you do have access to the tree of life.

Revelation is is a privilege and not a right.

Hi,

The seventh day was sanctified and God rested - I would say that it was the best day of all - the summation of creation.

 

[Vic C.]

Mutzrein, is right...

Before the Cross no body had The Mind of Christ as we have it under Grace.
When God declared: "...God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." Genesis 1:32

Indeed it was "VERY GOOD" for his purposes. Please note that up to the 6th day "It was very good" not so on on the seventh which is a type of Christ for it was declared sanctified and not "very Good".

"Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God" 1 Corinthians 1:24
If you have Christ in you thus His Spirit and Mind than you do have access to the tree of life.

Revelation is is a privilege and not a right.

I have no doubt that you believe that. You didn't actually address the verses I quoted though:

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Here (above) Jesus is referring to the tree as though it is something other than Himself. He already gave us thr "permission" to eat of "His" body here:

Matthew 26:26

Other than the Rev verse, where do we find, verbatim, that we have access to or that Jesus is the tree of life, which was sealed until the end? If it is Jesus, then why and how did He give us permission to eat of His body, if the tree is not available to us right now?

In Genesis we are told God placed a flaming sword at the gate of the Garden. In Revelation we read:

Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

We also read where Jesus says He is both Living water (the Word) and the Gate. Nowhere does Jesus or anyone else in the Bible teach that He is the tree of life. We can speculate though. :o

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
John 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?...
John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.....
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

We are promisd that one day we will eat from this tree, "which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month", but we are taught that "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." We should be eating of the Word on a daily basis.

BTW, who or what are these twelve manner of fruit? Also, if Jesus is this Tree, why does the verse say "her fruit". Isn't Jesus the Groom? (there's a hint in there for you all somewhere- ;-) )

 

[stranger]

If the tree of life was Christ. . . then 'who' was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

While we have the bible in front of us - and the benefit of revelation that the OT saints did not have and the advantage (or sometimes disadvantage) of history - I am not convinced that any alive today know God as well as Moses did, or Isaiah, Elijah etc. As Thomas Brooks said: It is good to know about Christ but it is infinitely better to experience Him.

Most people know about Christ - few actually experience Him.

 

[mutzrein]

If the tree of life was Christ. . . then 'who' was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

While we have the bible in front of us - and the benefit of revelation that the OT saints did not have and the advantage (or sometimes disadvantage) of history - I am not convinced that any alive today know God as well as Moses did, or Isaiah, Elijah etc. As Thomas Brooks said: It is good to know about Christ but it is infinitely better to experience Him.

Most people know about Christ - few actually experience Him.

Not every tree has to be representative of a person does it.

And I agree that I know of none whose lives emulate a type of relationship with God as those you mentioned. I do however believe that those who are called by God, whether they lived then or are alive now are vessels in the master's hands created to fulfil whatever purpose He desired.

And yes, an academic knowledge of the man Christ Jesus - even a belief that he is the son of God can never make you intimately acquainted with Him. This can only happen if one is born of the same Spirit that raised him from the dead.

 

[xicali]

This is my first and last long post :morning:

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

"...By one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified". Hebrews 10:14

"...In all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us." Romans 8:37

"...Teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus..." Colossians 1:28

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed". Galatians 1:8-9

"...The LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so". 1 Kings 22:20-22

him that overcometh Sounds like works to me, But He qualified me!
Can He put a lying spirit in the mouths of his prophets so that we can believe a lie? Certainly so.

In Genesis we are told God placed a flaming sword at the gate of the Garden

No flaming sword at the gate. see Genesis 3:24

Other than the Rev verse, where do we find, verbatim, that we have access to or that Jesus is the tree of life, which was sealed until the end?

You know as well as as anybody else, that to find verbatim on the bible on many subjects is just not there.

I never mentioned Jesus...but Christ, for theres a big difference. When you say Jesus I'm assuming you mean Jesus in the days of his flesh. Jesus was not in anybody before the Cross. The resurrected Christ is now in the believer. The tree gives life right? So in reality we are talking about the effect of the tree.

Let's take a look at this passage:

God "...breathed into [Adam] his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7

"The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit". 1 Corinthians 15:45

Why did God didn't give Adam the quickening spirit? Because God didn't wanted him to take of the tree of life for he said:

"...Now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever." Genesis 3:22

God Didn't want Adam to live for ever. Thus God didn't give Adam a "quickening spirit" because it was reserved for the believer after the cross.

Understand that:

"...The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death". Romans 8:2

Also we have to take into consideration that:

"...If the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Romans 8:11

"...We which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh." 2 Corinthians 4:11

If it is Jesus, then why and how did He give us permission to eat of His body, if the tree is not available to us right now?

I'm a Gentile in the flesh, He never gave me permission to eat His body but to his contemporaries he did.

"...Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover". Exodus 12:21

"...The LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat?" [ I'm a stranger up to the Cross ]. Exodus 12:43

To His Apostles He said:

"Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?" Luke 22:7-9

To me in my Apostle said:

"Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:" [ A done deal for me ] 1 Corinthians 5:7

"Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth". 1 Corinthians 5:7-8

"...He that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. discerning is the key here 1 Corinthians 11:29

We also read where Jesus says He is both Living water (the Word) and the Gate. Nowhere does Jesus or anyone else in the Bible teach that He is the tree of life. We can speculate though. :o

One molecule of water is composed of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom thus, H2O so the effect of H20 is wetness. we see the effect of H20 or oxygen and hidrogen and call that water

Life is the effect of the tree thus the quickening spirit = The Risen Christ

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

John 4:11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?...

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.....

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Notice that the verses are before the Cross. Jesus teaching under the Law and not Under Grace. The Gentile believer does not exist yet.

He taught under Grace through the Apostle Paul.

We are promisd that one day we will eat from this tree, "which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month", but we are taught that "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." We should be eating of the Word on a daily basis.

"...The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law". Galatians 5:22-23

"...The fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth..." Ephesians 5:9

Count the above Fruit...

"Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering..." ( Do you see any fruit here?) It's not for the future it's for now Colossians 3:12

why does the verse say "her fruit".

Check. The Greek on the Link below it says: The, That [ Article Acusative Singular Masculine ].

http://www.zhubert.com/bible?source=gre ... Rev+22%3A2

(there's a hint in there for you vic somewhere- :wink: )

 

[mutzrein]

Thanks xicali - you make some excellent points.

And I consider myself blessed :D

 

[Vic C.]

Revelation 22

14 Blessed are the ones doing His commands, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and by the gates they may enter into the city. (LITV)

Ed, that post above was a perfect example of allegorizing and over-spiritualizing scripture. The early Christians and especially the Gnostics were guilty of this. The Mormons also believe this; it's in their Book of Mormon. To be honest with you. no pertinent scriptures directly point to Christ as the tree, without speculation. Personally, I have a better shot at proving a Triune God. You don't believe in the Trinity; I don't believe what you have proposed. We're at a stalemate... I can deal with that, can you? Is believing that Christ is the Tree of Life a salvific issue? Is belief in Christ's Deity an issue of salvation? Choose your poison, bro. ;-)

There is one thing to consider; Biblical history (yeah, I'm on a Biblical theology kick). The Tree is directly mentioned in Genesis and Revelation; both books are very "Jewish" in nature. ... and remember, I pointed out that this Tree will yeild 12 kinds fruit, one per month. Now, lets look at Ezekiel 47:12-14:

Ezek 47:12 12 And all trees for food shall go up by the torrent, on its lip on this side and on that. Its leaf shall not fade, and its fruit shall not fail; it will bear by its months, because its waters come out from the sanctuary. And its fruit shall be for food, and its leaf for healing.
13 ¶ So says the Lord Jehovah: This shall be the border by which you shall inherit the land, by the twelve tribes of Israel. Joseph shall have two portions.
14 And you shall inherit it, each man like his brother, that I lifted up My hand to give it to your fathers, even this land shall fall to you for an inheritance. (litv)

Makes one wonder who this Tree is really for.

While we're at it, lets take a look at something from the Jewish Encyclopedia:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... 0of%20life