True Acts 2:38 Christians will not go through the Great Tribulation

[Eventide]

The Day of the LORD... The Day of Jesus Christ...

Here's what I think is going to happen... and I must say that who can even begin to understand the enormity of not only these last days, but especially that LAST DAY... The Day of the LORD, the Day of of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I believe that it's been the last two days since Jesus of Nazareth was born miraculously, lived miraculously, spoke miraculously, died miraculously, and rose in bodily (Flesh and Bone) form from the Tomb, miraculously...

All according to the scriptures, for in the volume of the Book it is written of Me saith the LORD.

The Apostles to the Gentiles tells us that these are the last days... and the reason I say two is simply because it has been ~2000 years since these things literally happened. And of course as Day with the LORD (in the Spirit) is as a thousand years, and a thousand years are as one DAY...

And THAT is the next staggering event in the prophetic story of all stories..

The Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.

Paul tells us that this DAY shall come as a thief in the night, and as travail upon a woman with child...

Two huge miraculous indicators as to when this DAY shall come.

I believe that Revelation chapters 4-20 describe this DAY in (once again) miraculous detail..

It is going to happen... John refers to this time as the things which shall be here... after...

That's what coming after the Lord is finished building His church (during the time John refers to as the things which are, ie, the present time), and then presents it to Himself gloriously... and it's a marriage made in Heaven, no doubt.

Reading Revelation 4-20 should make anyone fall down before the LORD because we're told for 42 months that the man of sin is going to have his reign over the whole thing... Rev 12 teaches us that the Dragon is cast down to the EARTH... the one who is presently the prince and power of the AIR... shall be cast down to the EARTH...

This can be none other than the man of sin whom the LORD shall consume with the brightness of His coming... AFTER the marriage of the Lamb to His wife amongst the multitudes in HEAVEN..

Nobody is going to want to be HERE... WOE to those who are on the EARTH... because it's going to happen.. the ruler of this dark world will literally become the man of sin..

I think that this is what the scriptures are teaching us in a living and powerful, miraculous way.. and I sincerely share this with any brother or sister in the Lord as simply my thoughts (and of course the countless others who have taught me) concerning that DAY ahead... the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.

I hope that these words are comforting to those who are members of the body of Christ, who can feel as Rebekah did long ago.. in extreme anticipation and endless joy, when we meet our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ.. even our Husband to be, the Bridegroom Himself... who gave Himself for us on that forsaken cross of Calvary.. to lead us Home to His Father, and our Father, in Heaven.

 

[Deborah13]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

aer=breath g109/g4151 spirit not g3772 sky

Act_22:23 AndG1161 as theyG846 cried out,G2905 andG2532 cast offG4495 their clothes,G2440 andG2532 threwG906 dustG2868 intoG1519 theG3588 air,G109
1Th_4:17 ThenG1899 weG2249 which are aliveG2198 and remainG4035 shall be caught upG726 togetherG260 withG4862 themG846 inG1722 the clouds,G3507 to meetG1519 G529 theG3588 LordG2962 inG1519 the air:G109 andG2532 soG3779 shall we everG3842 beG2071 withG4862 the Lord.G2962

Doing a word search brought 7 verses. The word (translated air) G109, is never used to say spirit as in "pneuma" the breath of God.
It can be used in as a verb to be the actual 'breathing' the taken in and out of air.

At the same time, I agree that one should not assume the air means 'sky'.
Don't know if this is relevant but beyond our own atmosphere, there isn't any 'air' of this kind to breath. Symbolic?

 

[lecoop]

Re: A marriage made in heaven...

Couple this with the story in Gen 24 concerning Abraham sending his eldest servant to find a bride for his only begotten son... and we see the direction of the church of God... and it's clearly toward where Isaac is, not where Rebekah is.

They meet in the field at eventide and Isaac takes her into his mother's tent... again, where Isaac is, not where Rebekah came from.

This notion that we're meeting the LORD in the air and then coming back here is not supported at all by this story. Then of course Rev 19 shows us as plain as day that there is a multitude in heaven, that the marriage of the Lamb is come.. and THEN His coming to destroy the beast and false prophet.

So far one person has shared why they believe that we're coming back to earth, and it's not based on anything biblical, but on some external idea which suggests that we're going to escort the LORD to earth.

So, anyone have any biblical evidence to show why they believe that we're meeting the LORD in the AIR and then coming back to earth ?

Postrib with evidence? Surely you jest! There IS no evidence for a posttrib rapture. Lecoop

 

[lecoop]

Re: A marriage made in heaven...

Couple this with the story in Gen 24 concerning Abraham sending his eldest servant to find a bride for his only begotten son... and we see the direction of the church of God... and it's clearly toward where Isaac is, not where Rebekah is.

They meet in the field at eventide and Isaac takes her into his mother's tent... again, where Isaac is, not where Rebekah came from.

This notion that we're meeting the LORD in the air and then coming back here is not supported at all by this story. Then of course Rev 19 shows us as plain as day that there is a multitude in heaven, that the marriage of the Lamb is come.. and THEN His coming to destroy the beast and false prophet.

So far one person has shared why they believe that we're coming back to earth, and it's not based on anything biblical, but on some external idea which suggests that we're going to escort the LORD to earth.

So, anyone have any biblical evidence to show why they believe that we're meeting the LORD in the AIR and then coming back to earth ?

Eventide, surely you jest! Posttribbers with real, solid bible evidence never happens, because God is Pretrib. Lecoop

 

[JLB]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

How many groups of people are there in verse 20.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

One person.

We are doing good at this point. This is where our issue is at.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(1Co 15:22-23)

YLT:
for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
(1Co 15:22-23)

We have Christ (Jesus) mentioned first, then those "IN" Christ in their order. So the subject is now those IN Christ. Christ His firstfruits then those that belong to him afterward.

You keep wanting to mention Jesus over and over, but It's.

Jesus first of the dead. Then those IN Christ Jesus in this order. Those that are IN HIM and then those that are His.

Paul is going in order here. Wanting this to be Post Trib is stopping you from reading how this would be normally read

You also want to keep adding the Word "The" which is not even there.

So explain why you want to add the Word The.

And Explain why Paul is not mentioning those "IN Christ" in their order. Those produced anointed firstfruits, then those that are his afterward.

How are you switching the topic IN Christ in this order back to the first person Paul mentioned. How do you read things this way?

Mike.

Brother Mike,

Please answer the question concerning verse 20 -

How many groups of people are there in verse 20.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

1. Christ, who has become the First Fruits.
2. Those who have fallen asleep.

Not 3.
Not 1.


There is no 3rd group who is called first fruits. Christ Jesus is the First Fruits to have received His resurrected, immortal body.

When He returns THOSE WHO ARE ASLEEP will receive theirs along with those who are alive and remain, on the last Day.


JLB

 

[lecoop]

Re: A marriage made in heaven...

How many groups of people are there in verse 20.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

One person.

We are doing good at this point. This is where our issue is at.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(1Co 15:22-23)

YLT:
for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
(1Co 15:22-23)

We have Christ (Jesus) mentioned first, then those "IN" Christ in their order. So the subject is now those IN Christ. Christ His firstfruits then those that belong to him afterward.

You keep wanting to mention Jesus over and over, but It's.

Jesus first of the dead. Then those IN Christ Jesus in this order. Those that are IN HIM and then those that are His.

Paul is going in order here. Wanting this to be Post Trib is stopping you from reading how this would be normally read

You also want to keep adding the Word "The" which is not even there.

So explain why you want to add the Word The.

And Explain why Paul is not mentioning those "IN Christ" in their order. Those produced anointed firstfruits, then those that are his afterward.

How are you switching the topic IN Christ in this order back to the first person Paul mentioned. How do you read things this way?

Mike.

Jesus Christ says in matt 24:29-31 HIS parousia is after the tribulation, paul says IF we also believe HE rose even so do we and return with HIM:


50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; :amen

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. :amen

55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:






Brother it's not the post trib is keep us from reading; it's pre trib added to the scriptures keeping you from reading. now where does paul say Jesus' parousia is before the tribulation? nowhere in scripture :shocked! don't be alarmed





Jesus rose from the grave, the saints as believers rose also partaking in the First Resurrection and as believers that HE rose we also shall rise and be WITH HIM and return WITH HIM when HE returns after the tribulation :





Luke 23:39-44

King James Version (KJV)

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.




1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

King James Version (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
*the unsaved have no hope!



14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


*we who are alive and remain till HIS parousia can't precede them they are already there, the Lord says HIS parousia is after the tribulation as does paul in II thess 2:1-12. paul quotes matt 24:30-31 and ref. I cor 15 we meet the Lord in spritual bodies (aer=breath g109 breath=spiritg4151 not g3772 sky) :



16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


paul NEVER says the above passage is pre tribulation and doesn't mention the church yet we know as believerswe will be the ones joining Christ Jesus in the spirit just as be know it's we believers who will be betrayed beaten and delivered to death before this as Jesus says in matt 24 mark 13 luke 21 for refusing the false Christs who come before the this. the Lord warns believers of a event prior to what paul is speaking of which paul also warns of in II thess 2:1-12:



Now let's see the Lord's word:


Luke 21:8


8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.



Mark 13:5-6

King James Version (KJV)

5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.



Matthew 24:4-5


4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:21-31

what's called a pre trib rapture IS the tribulation:


21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.


26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


paul quotes matt 24:30-31 the post trib rapture/gathering/harvest of wheat
if one falls away by believing the lie that Jesus comes before the tribulation they are looking to gather with the tares above instead of waiting as wise virgins for gathering with the wheat here:



29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Isaiah 61:1-3

the 1st advent:


61 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,



*before the 2nd advent gathering Jesus and paul say the falling away,false Christs claim to be Jesus with signs and lying wonders leading to the working of satan claiming to be and shewing himself as if he is God with all power signs and lying wonders. matt 24:21-31, II thess 2:1-12 this is what false prophets call a pre trib rapture , a seducing away as whores of babylon away from the wedding
those who fall for this are "taken 1st while we who remain wait for matt 24:29-31



The 2nd advent

and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.



Jesus died in the flesh and rose again,so do we believers die and rise to HIM daily continuing to partake of the First resurrection until HIS post trib parousia and our gathering to HIM as HE says in matt 24:29-31 IF we believe HE died and rose again and we'd better!

This is mostly MYTH. Paul DID tells us when His gathering is if we keep reading to 1 Thes. chapter 5. There Paul explains that the rapture is the TRIGGER for the start of the day of the Lord. The sudden destruction is the great earthquake at the 6th seal. John writes then, "the day of His wrath has come." Paul writes that God has made no appointment with His wrath. John then CONFIRMS the pretrib rapture by showing us the raptured church in heaven in Rev. 7. Paul "nailed" it as pretrib, and John clinched the nails on the underside. It is clear, God is very pretrib.

Again it is proven in Rev. 19, where the wedding and supper take place in heaven BEFORE Jesus gets on the white horse.

Lecoop

 

[JLB]

TEST

 

[JLB]

Re: As a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child.

I count two groups.

Group 1: the first fruits - Christ has become the first fruits.

Group 2: those who have fallen asleep - all His people who have died.

No, wrong class. It is not a math problem. It's a understand simple English problem. English 101 even....


But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. (Christ the first of everyone. You get this correct. A+!!!) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive, But every man in his own order: (Now Paul is going to mention everyone IN Christ and the Order they go in) Christ, firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(1Co 15:20-23)

Simple English. Not Math.

Jesus Christ the firstfruit of all the dead.
Those In Jesus Christ in this order. The Lord Jesus Christ First fruits (Those in Christ) then those that are His at his coming.

I already gave scripture that Jesus did produce fristfruits which is us. Paul is now telling us the Order of those In Him.

Simple English, not math. You keep Ignoring the scripture above about Those IN Christ after this Order. It was not written in scripture and verse, read it like you would a normal book. It's not hard.

James 1:18

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

We have to skip these verses because some here believe Jesus had no first fruits or produced anything...... Or it could be some Post Trib doctrine in the way, that causes issues with Reading.

Those in Christ, each man in his order. ................. ???? It baffles me!!! How is this not clear???


Mike.

How many groups of people are there in verse 20.

I count two groups.

Group 1: the first fruits - Christ has become the first fruits.

Group 2: those who have fallen asleep - all His people who have died.


Brother Mike, please answer this question -

How many groups of people are there in verse 20.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Bump