True Repentance and Faith - The Road to Salvation

[Digger]

All known sin is out of the question for a Christian. This is a statement which most, who call themselves a Christian, will vehemently disagree with. The reason they disagree is because they have been deceived by a false gospel message which consists of confess, trust and receive. This false gospel is being preached almost everywhere. This false gospel message is based on the tenets of substitution, moral transfer and the preforgiveness of sins. This false gospel redefines the tenets of repentance, faith and grace and thus destroys the saving power of the real Gospel though a very subtle satanic deception.



Shall we sin that grace may increase? Paul said an emphatic no.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Those who go through the baptism of repentance...

Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

...die with Christ. We crucify our old man with him in this repentance for the purpose that we may no longer "serve" sin.

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

We are to believe, by faith, that this takes place and walk in it.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

We that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

This means that we no longer yield to the enticement of the flesh in disobedience to God.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Sin must be laid aside in repentance so that an individual is then in a position to yield meekly to the working of God's grace. We are to be doers of the word.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

When we truly believe we will be doers of the word putting the grace of God into effect through a working obedient faith.

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Which sets us free from the bondage of sin.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Shall we sin because we are not under the law? Paul says an emphatic no!

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

If we continue to yield ourselves to sin then we are still in bondage to sin.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

This was the state of the man Paul describes in Romans 7.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

That wretched man had to yet be crucified with Christ in the baptism of repentance and thus be raised to the newness of life.

He needed to be delivered.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

It is the law of the Spirit which sets one free from this wretched state.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The law could not bring life, life is found when we die with Christ in repentance so that we then may walk after the Spirit with the old man crucified.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Those who have done this are no longer under condemnation.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We thus escape the corruption that is in the world through lust by the exceeding great and precious promises that we might be partakers in the divine nature of God.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

God quickens us from a dead state by His power, by His grace.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Thus we are saved by grace through faith.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Thus we are empowered by God to walk in victory but we must choose to do so by living a crucified life, keeping the flesh in subjection.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.




Here is the question for professing Christian's. Have you been set free indeed from the bondage of sin? Or are you still in bondage? If you are still sinning then you are still a slave to sin. Jesus Christ can make you free.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If you are still on bondage you can be set free through a genuine repentance and faith, God will quicken and thus empower you, through His grace, to walk in victory where you will be able to add to your faith and thus be granted abundant entrance into the kingdom.



A very different Gospel to confess, trust and receive isn't it? A very different Gospel to subsitution, moral transfer, and preforgiveness of sins isn't it?

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Do you work iniquity?

 

[zeke]

Here is the question for professing Christian's. Have you been set free indeed from the bondage of sin? Or are you still in bondage? If you are still sinning then you are still a slave to sin. Jesus Christ can make you free.

Are you saying that as a Christian you “have no sin� Is that the gospel you teach? Aren't those 'professing Christians' you say that have no sin only deceiving themselves

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(1Jn 1:8-9)​

Can you clarify the gospel you preach?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Repentance has to be understood for what it really is. It's a change of mind, not actually the absence of sin. The absence of sin is the result of a change of mind about Christ and the judgment to come. We then show our repentance (our change of mind) by what we do, or don't do. But sin does not automatically equate to not having an unrepentant mind about Christ. It may signify the weaknesses and struggles of growing up into your change of mind (your repentance) about Christ and the forgiveness of God. Or it may signify you don't actually have a change of mind about Christ.

A willful rejection of the forgiveness of God in Christ is what puts a person in danger of being condemned as an unrepentant person. A false gospel is one that says you can willfully disobey and trample on the grace of God and still expect the grace of God to cover it. God has made no provision of grace to cover the sin of rejecting grace. But God has made an abundant provision of grace to the repentant yet failing, even defeated, saint.

 

[Digger]

Are you saying that as a Christian you “have no sin� Is that the gospel you teach? Aren't those 'professing Christians' you say that have no sin only deceiving themselves

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(1Jn 1:8-9)​

Can you clarify the gospel you preach?

1Jn 1:8-9 is a very common verse that people use to argue in favour of continuing in sins.

Jesus said clearly to go and sin no more and He also said that those who commit sin are slaves of sin.

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Paul taught the same thing when he said,

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Clearly the Bible teaches that we are a slave to whom we yield ourselves. Paul also clearly taught that we are set free from sin by sharing in the death and resurrection of Christ. We then are to walk by faith not yielding ourselves to sin because we are slaves to whom we obey.

Yet despite these teachings being very clear in the Scripture people will take 1Jo 1:8 and use to oppose stopping sin.

What was John teaching in 1 John?

Well he opens his letter saying he bore witness of the Word of life (1Jo 1:1-3).

He then says he is declaring this to his readers that they may too have fellowship with them and that their fellowship is with the Father. He is writing that their joy may be full.

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

He then goes on to say that God is light and that there is no darkness in God at all.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

He then explains that someone cannot walk (their actions) in darkness and claim to have fellowship with God. If they do claim this then they are liars.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

John then explains that the blood of Jesus Christ only cleanses people of all unrighteousness if they walk in the light.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This is the cleansing that occurs that removes the guilt and condemnation of past sin.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

This is why repentance and remission of sins are connected together in Scripture.

Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Luk_24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

God only grants mercy to those who confess and forsake their sin.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

This is why people must forsake their evil thoughts and deeds and return to the Lord. God will pardon those who do this through the propitiatory offering of Jesus Christ.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Simply returning to obedience cannot undo previous disobedience. That is why none can be saved by the law. The can only bring condemnation once broken.

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Thus the pardon wrought through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ can only be applied when one is walking in the light having forsaken rebellion to God.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

After writing this verse John is then teaching that one must not cover over their sins but rather must confess them. If someone says they have no sin, in the sense of never having sinned, then they do not have the truth.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If they confess them then the Father will forgive them.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This understanding harmonizes perfectly with Scripture. In the parable of the Prodigal Son the son forsakes the pig pen and returns to the Father.

Jer 26:13 Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.

Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

It is a very simple message. Stop doing evil and return to God. God will forgive those who do this.

If we confess (and forsake) our sins the Father will not only forgive us of our sins but will also cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But this cleansing will only occur if one is to walk in the light.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The blood purges us of dead works. All those works that wrought death because the wages of sin is death.

Heb_9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

We can then serve God in purity.

This is a very different message than what is preached in the church system today. Satan has beguiled most professing Christian's.

John then goes on in verse 10 to reinforce the point that it is essential that one must admit their wrongdoing

1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

In the next verse John then writes the reason that he writes these things.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Thus he was not saying that in 1Jo1:8 that the sin never stops as those who use that verse to justify continued sin do.

John also says that "IF" (not when) any man sin that we have an advocate with the Father. What sort of sin is he talking about here?

It cannot be willful sin because in chapter 3 he says this...

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In 1Jo 2:1 he is speaking of sin that is not willful. Mistakes, misjudgements.

To sin presumptuously against grace is deadly is treating the blood of Christ as cheap. It is treating it like the blood of animals which could not cleanse a person of all unrighteousness.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Under the Old Covenant presumptuous sin was a no no.

Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Yet today many teach a false gospel of willful sin ----> repent ------> willful sin -----> repent

This is not real repentance because their was no godly sorrow.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Those who go through a true godly sorrow which works a genuine repentance unto a genuine salvation are not living in sin. No way.

Satan does not want people understanding this.

Satan teaches "ye shall not surely die" and "ye cannot obey God."

 

[Digger]

Repentance has to be understood for what it really is. It's a change of mind, not actually the absence of sin. The absence of sin is the result of a change of mind about Christ and the judgment to come. We then show our repentance (our change of mind) by what we do, or don't do. But sin does not automatically equate to not having an unrepentant mind about Christ. It may signify the weaknesses and struggles of growing up into your change of mind (your repentance) about Christ and the forgiveness of God. Or it may signify you don't actually have a change of mind about Christ.

A willful rejection of the forgiveness of God in Christ is what puts a person in danger of being condemned as an unrepentant person. A false gospel is one that says you can willfully disobey and trample on the grace of God and still expect the grace of God to cover it. God has made no provision of grace to cover the sin of rejecting grace. But God has made an abundant provision of grace to the repentant yet failing, even defeated, saint.

The scriptures are clear. People just don't really believe them.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

One rejects grace when they do not yield to what it teaches.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


The question remains for every professing Christian.

Are you a worker of iniquity?



Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[elijah23]

I agree that we are not to sin. We all fail, sometimes, but when we do, we allow trouble to enter our lives.

 

[Danus]

Are you saying that as a Christian you “have no sin� Is that the gospel you teach? Aren't those 'professing Christians' you say that have no sin only deceiving themselves

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(1Jn 1:8-9)​

Can you clarify the gospel you preach?

Solid scripture zeke , and all you need to address this type of nonsense.

 

[zeke]

1Jn 1:8-9 is a very common verse that people use to argue in favour of continuing in sins.

No one is arguing "in favour of continuing in sin", mate. We should not sin but when we do (and we all do) we have an Advocate with the Father - Jesus the Christ and it is His blood that "cleanses us from all sin."

Paul struggled daily with sin AFTER his conversion. In Romans 7:15, he clearly states, "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do." He then confesses, "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out."

You misunderstand God's word. Is it your position that you have never sinned since you became a Christian? Is that the 'gospel' you teach? Was John in error when he told us the truth via the Spirit of God - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"?

 

[Digger]

No one is arguing "in favour of continuing in sin", mate. We should not sin but when we do (and we all do) we have an Advocate with the Father - Jesus the Christ and it is His blood that "cleanses us from all sin."

Paul struggled daily with sin AFTER his conversion. In Romans 7:15, he clearly states, "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do." He then confesses, "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out."

You misunderstand God's word. Is it your position that you have never sinned since you became a Christian? Is that the 'gospel' you teach? Was John in error when he told us the truth via the Spirit of God - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"?

Strip away the fluff and you are saying that you can sin and surely not die. 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7 are the auto responses of those who argue for sin. I would make an educated guess that it will be "Paul the chief of sinners" 1Tim1:15 next.

It is pure fallacy to imply that Paul is speaking of himself, in the present, as the Romans 7 wretch. My God has the power to deliver His people from sin, to purify them, not leave them in bondage and filthy.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

What a hypocrite would Paul be if he was sinning in thought, word and deed every day to tell others to follow him as he follows Christ.

1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


Before Paul says...

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

He says...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

This wretched man who is carnal and sold under sin is in need of deliverance. This man is not walking after the Spirit but is carnal and walking after the flesh.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


This wretched man needs deliverance from his predicament.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

This deliverance is in the very next verses.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So when a believer dies with Christ and are raised up with Him they are freed from the bondage of sin.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The believer then holds fast to this by faith and is no longer to yield their members to sin.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

This is because sin shall not have dominion over them.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

So should they continue in sin because they are under grace? No.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

If they were to continue in sin they would be demonstrating that they are still in bondage to sin.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

They were the servants of sin but not anymore. They have been set free because they obeyed from their heart that form of doctrine which was delivered to them.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Which doctrine was this?

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

Your doctrine is clearly in favour of sin.



Some questions for you Zeke.

1. Jesus said that if you sin then you are a slave to sin. Paul said that you are a slave to whom you obey whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. Please explain how you can be set free from sin and yet still remain a slave to sin at exactly the same time?

2. Why do you let sin reign in your mortal body when the Scriptures say to do otherwise?

3. Why does not the warning of Matthew 7:21-23 not apply to you in that you claim "Lord, Lord," yet are a still a worker of iniquity ala Rom 7:15.

4. How are you able to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ when you are not walking in the light as He is in the light?



To argue in favour of sin is pure folly and is a doctrine of demons.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[zeke]

Strip away the fluff and you are saying that you can sin and surely not die.

You didn't answer my question Digger - is it your position that you have never sinned since you became a Christian? Again, I remind you - no one is arguing that we should continue in sin - we shouldn't - but when we do sin (and we all do) we have an Advocate with the Father - Jesus the Christ whose blood "cleanses us from all sin." These are the facts taught in Holy Writ and for the record - Paul was referring to himself when he clearly stated he struggled daily with sin AFTER his conversion---"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do."

Some questions for you Zeke.

Here is how it works Digger - we answer questions in order of when they were asked. I asked if you are making the claim that you have never sinned since you became a Christian? I didn't see your answer. You answer my question and then I will answer yours.

Are you without sin?

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us...​

 

[Webb]

The passage earlier cited in I John 1 is in the present actdive indicative which simply means the Christian does not continue to live the old lifestyle of sin, he has a new lifestyle. It says nothing about absolutely no sin. The next several verses of I Jn. 2 make that clear.

The very best definition of what repentance is is by Jesus Himself given in Matthew 21 begining with about verse 28.

 

[Digger]

You didn't answer my question Digger - is it your position that you have never sinned since you became a Christian? Again, I remind you - no one is arguing that we should continue in sin - we shouldn't - but when we do sin (and we all do) we have an Advocate with the Father - Jesus the Christ whose blood "cleanses us from all sin." These are the facts taught in Holy Writ and for the record - Paul was referring to himself when he clearly stated he struggled daily with sin AFTER his conversion---"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do."


Here is how it works Digger - we answer questions in order of when they were asked. I asked if you are making the claim that you have never sinned since you became a Christian? I didn't see your answer. You answer my question and then I will answer yours.

Are you without sin?

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us...​

Zeke, like all sin defenders you will ignore what the Bible plainly teaches in order to hold to your underlying theology. I write this not for your benefit but for those who may be reading, you already know what you believe and I doubt anything I could say would make any difference.

1 John 1:8-9 has John teaching about how to come to the light. One cannot come to the light unless they confess that they have sin. It is a verse about repentance.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we come to God in genuine repentance and confess and forsake our sins and then walk in the light we will be cleansed.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The blood will only cleanse someone if they are walking in the light as He is in the light. Walking in the light as He is in the light means not walking in any darkness at all.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

You cannot possibly be walking in the light and yet be sinning every day which is what you believe. The light in you is actually darkness.

Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

If John is saying that you will always be sinning then he would be contradicting 1 Jo 2:1 because he says he is writing that his readers "sin not" and that "if" they sin they have an advocate.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Of course, he is not talking about willful transgression here otherwise he would be contradicting what he writes in the very next chapter when he says...

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Those are scriptures you do not believe. You have to try and twist them and imply that they actually mean something else.

Here is another scripture you don't believe.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

You don't believe that you have to forsake sin to be forgiven. You believe that you just have to confess sins only. Thus you would have a child molester only being sorry for his sin to be forgiven by God, not actually giving it up.

Tell me if I am wrong? I bet you cannot say that a child molester has to forsake (stop) his sin of child molestation BEFORE God will forgive him. Thus you deny Pro 28:13.

You deny these apply to a Christian...

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Jer 26:13 Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.

You don't believe that you have to lay aside ALL known sin in order to receive the implanted word that can save you.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Jesus said go an sin no more but in your mind I am sure He meant to "try" and go and sin no more.

Joh_5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Paul listed several things and said not to even let them be named among you.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Willful known transgression stops in repentance, if it doesn't then the repentance is not real. A man committing adultery on his wife does not seek reconciliation while still engaging in the illicit relationship. Yet the church system says that a believer can still engage in an illicit relationship with the world and be reconciled. It is a total denial of scripture and a total redefining of repentance.

You ask do I sin? Do I willfully transgress the will of God? The answer is an emphatic no. I forsook my evil ways and returned to God. Do you not think that such a thing is possible? Why not?

Strip away all the rhetoric and I am simply saying you must forsake your sin and obey God in order to receive forgiveness.

What you are saying is that we don't actually have to do that.

What does the Scripture say?




Now let's look again at Romans 7. I know I will be repeating myself but again I am writing this for the benefit of others who may read it.

You will cling to this verse in order to justify a continued life of sin.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Yet this man that Paul is describing in Rom 7:15 is carnal and sold under sin.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

By clinging to the verse you are saying that YOU are carnal and sold under sin.

Thus you are the wretched man in need of deliverance.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

This carnally minded man in Romans 7 does what he would not because, in this state, he is not subject to the law of God neither indeed can he be.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Paul says basically the exact same thing in Galations.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

That is why life and peace is found in spiritual mindedness. Walking after the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

The law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ sets one free.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.



You cannot possibly have your old man crucified with Christ if you still be serving sin. Satan wants you to believe that. In fact Satan has the majority of professing Christianity beholden by this deadly error.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

You say that you still sin which means you are a servant of sin.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

My old man has been crucified with Christ that I not continue to serve sin. I have been set free. I do not serve sin like you do.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

I don't let sin reign in my mortal body that I should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

My flesh is crucified with its affections and lusts because I am Christ's.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

I don't yield my members to unrighteousness because sin does not have dominion over me. I have been set free.

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For : sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Shall I sin? You say that I do and will (by how you use 1Jo 1:8). What does Paul say?

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.







Paul had this to say.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Peter had this to say...

2Pe_2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

 

[Digger]

The passage earlier cited in I John 1 is in the present actdive indicative which simply means the Christian does not continue to live the old lifestyle of sin, he has a new lifestyle. It says nothing about absolutely no sin. The next several verses of I Jn. 2 make that clear.

The very best definition of what repentance is is by Jesus Himself given in Matthew 21 begining with about verse 28.

This is a very good parable. The man who repented "went" and did what the Father willed.

Mat 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Mat 21:29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
Mat 21:30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Those who enter the kingdom are those who do the Fathers will.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

We can prove what that will is by doing what Paul says in Romans 12:2.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Jesus also used Nineveh as an example of repentance.

Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

The Ninevites forsook their evil ways.

Jon 3:7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
Jon 3:8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
Jon 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Which is perfectly in line with...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Isa 1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.


This "come and get saved in your sins" which is preached almost everywhere today is a doctrine of demons.

The Bible is clear that you must CONFESS AND FORSAKE your evil ways and return to the Lord before pardon is granted.

You do that through godly sorrow and repentance.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

The godly sorrow produces the carefulness, clearing of wrongdoing, indignation over sin, fear of God, vehement desire to do what is right, a zeal, and revenge against all disobedience in ones life which all causes the mind to truly change in repentance. An individual who goes through this comes into an agreement with God and comes to an understanding of how evil sin actually is and what an offense it is to the Creator. They then are truly willing to change their actions by forsaking evil and choosing good. Thus a true conversion is wrought in an individual.

God will then, just the like the parable of the Prodigal Son, restore that person back to life.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

This is a very different message to the "confess, trust and receive" which comes out of the false religion of substitution, moral transfer, and preforgiveness of sin that masquerades as Biblical Christianity.

The Bible means exactly what it says.

Jesus meant exactly what He said.

Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

There is no strive in "confess, trust and receive."

 

[smaller]

You didn't answer my question Digger - is it your position that you have never sinned since you became a Christian? Again, I remind you - no one is arguing that we should continue in sin - we shouldn't - but when we do sin (and we all do) we have an Advocate with the Father - Jesus the Christ whose blood "cleanses us from all sin." These are the facts taught in Holy Writ and for the record - Paul was referring to himself when he clearly stated he struggled daily with sin AFTER his conversion---"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do."


Here is how it works Digger - we answer questions in order of when they were asked. I asked if you are making the claim that you have never sinned since you became a Christian? I didn't see your answer. You answer my question and then I will answer yours.

Are you without sin?

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us...​

For those who produce honesty before God, God Himself will teach them His Ways from His Words through His Spirit. He will show them His Purposes for our afflictions and will find them glorious, to divide us from the path of evil.

Those who lie can not and will not be taught.

s

 

[zeke]

You ask do I sin? Do I willfully transgress the will of God? The answer is an emphatic no.

You are dancing Digger - why? Simple question - yes or no answer will suffice. One more time - since you became a Christian have you been completely without sin? For those reading along - Digger will not answer this question and the reason is obvious. S/he has sinned and that willful sin renders her dogma worthless. She is left admitting she is fibbing or self-deceived - or both.

The word of God is quite clear - we must repent of our sins at conversion and then we must walk in the light as He is in the light. When we do sin we must repent of that sin and confess our sins to God - the same God who is faithful and just and forgives our sins via the blood of Jesus the Christ.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us... the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin...​

 

[zeke]

Those who lie can not and will not be taught.

s

Are you saying you cannot be taught or do you simply refuse to be taught?

 

[Digger]

You are dancing Digger - why? Simple question - yes or no answer will suffice. One more time - since you became a Christian have you been completely without sin? For those reading along - Digger will not answer this question and the reason is obvious. S/he has sinned and that willful sin renders her dogma worthless. She is left admitting she is fibbing or self-deceived - or both.

The word of God is quite clear - we must repent of our sins at conversion and then we must walk in the light as He is in the light. When we do sin we must repent of that sin and confess our sins to God - the same God who is faithful and just and forgives our sins via the blood of Jesus the Christ.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us... the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin...​

I answered your question and I will answer is again. What you are actually doing though is drawing the discussion away from all the scriptures that I posted by obfuscating the issue by attempting to put me on the spot. I find that this is what always occurs when I bring up the scriptures which say "go and sin no more," "you are a slave to whom you obey," "do not yield your members to unrighteousness", "he who sins is of the devil."

I do not willfully sin. If I know something is wrong I simply do not do it, I abhor sin, I hate it, I know it is deadly, I know it offends God.

I am not drawn away by my passions and desires into sin because I have crucified them with Christ. Have you?

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

I do not knowingly transgress God's law.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rather, I walk by faith and establish the law in my heart upholding its righteous requirements.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Do I ever fall short? Yes I do, I make misjudgments and mistakes but I do not presumptuously sin. I do not do wrong knowingly. If I do something and then God reveals to me that it was wrong then I confess that sin and I am cleared because I have the advocate Jesus Christ.

I do not do these things though...

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Those who do the things in that list will not inherit the kingdom.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

These sins of the flesh are out of the question for a Christian. In fact it is impossible to do these things if you are walking by a faith that works by love.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

I simply love God and I love my neighbor, all glory to God.

 

[Digger]

Zeke,

You have plainly said that you are carnal and sold under sin because you applied Romans 7:15 to yourself.

Those who are carnal and sold under sin have not been delivered (Rom 7:24). They cannot please God and cannot do what they would (Rom 8:6-8, Gal 5:17). They have not been set free from sin (Rom 6:6-7, Rom 6:17-18) but are instead still under the dominion of sin and a slave to sin (Rom 6:16, Joh 8:34).

You are arguing in favour that the sin continues. In other words the sin never stops. Thus when Jesus said "go and sin no more," you do not believe that you can obey that command.

What people like you do is grab a few select scriptures like the Rom 7:15 and 1 Joh 1:8 and you isolate them completely from their context and then stick to them as the bulwarks of your sin message. Your doctrine has a tree producing good and bad fruit, serving two masters, being double minded and light and darkness mixing. All which is the opposite of Scripture.

If I were to ask you this question...

Does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them you have to answer no.

If I were to ask if a child molester would have to stop molesting children after he is saved you would also have to say no.

If you were to say yes then you would be saying the sin had to stop.

Thus you have to totally ignore Jam 1:21, Isa 51:7, Pro 28:13, Jer 26:13, the parable of the prodigal son in Luke 15:11-32, what happened with Nineveh in Jon 3:8-10, 1 Pet 4:1, 2 Cor 7:10-11, Isa 1:16-19, Acts 3:19 and many other scriptures. I listed many of these above and even elaborated on them very clearly. You simply ignore them because you do not actually believe what the Bible teaches.

When Jesus said "go and sin no more," He was telling people to STOP SINNING. You cling to some isolated scriptures which you take totally out of context and cry "I can't stop sinning."

Jesus warned us that He is going to reject MANY who profess His name who were WORKERS OF INIQUITY.

That means they did not DEPART from iniquity. They did not forsake their sins. Instead they trusted in a false gospel message.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Your theology is a house of cards when it is compared to Scripture.

You theology would teach that someone could commit occasional acts of murder and still enter the kingdom. As long as they didn't habitually murder people, just an odd murder here and there that they would just "fall into." Isn't that what you believe? I am sure you believe that about lying and pornography watching, so why not murder or child molestation? See the logic?

It is a total fallacy what is being preached today but it is indeed a very powerful delusion and very few will ever come out of it.

Read my first post again and really think about it. A gave an abundance of clear scripture. I was not playing games. I wrote that in the hope that perhaps that there may be just one person reading these forums who might receive a seed and eventually come out of this mess.

This confess, trust and receive false gospel is leading millions of souls into ruin. Substitution, moral transfer and preforgiveness of sins is a total hoax.

Amo_8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

 

[Mike]

No one is arguing "in favour of continuing in sin", mate. We should not sin but when we do (and we all do) we have an Advocate with the Father - Jesus the Christ and it is His blood that "cleanses us from all sin."

Paul struggled daily with sin AFTER his conversion. In Romans 7:15, he clearly states, "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do." He then confesses, "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out."

You misunderstand God's word. Is it your position that you have never sinned since you became a Christian? Is that the 'gospel' you teach? Was John in error when he told us the truth via the Spirit of God - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"?

Zeke, I would caution you not to get wrapped up too long in a discussion with anyone who is living in denial of his/her continual need for repentance. They will only be persuaded by the Holy Spirit that they are no better than Paul in Romans 7 who was the chief of sinners. This doctrine has caused countless believers to be convinced that they were never truly His.

I stand with you, Paul, and those who throw themselves at the Feet of the Lord daily, fully confessing that I fall short of His greatest commandment every day. God Forbid that I ever stop depending on His Grace.

 

[Digger]

They will only be persuaded by the Holy Spirit that they are no better than Paul in Romans 7 who was the chief of sinners. This doctrine has caused countless believers to be convinced that they were never truly His.

I stand with you, Paul, and those who throw themselves at the Feet of the Lord daily, fully confessing that I fall short of His greatest commandment every day. God Forbid that I ever stop depending on His Grace.

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[FONT=Georgia, serif]Falling short of perfection is a BIG DIFFERENCE to being carnal and sold under sin. That is a strawman tactic that you are using there. You try and imply that because we make mistakes that somehow someone who claims to be walking in purity of heart is somehow not depending on the grace of God. It is all the grace of God. I rely on the Grace of God every day. It is His power, it is His divine influence on my heart, it is His mercy.
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[FONT=Georgia, serif]Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
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[FONT=Georgia, serif]It is very deceptive to use twisted rhetoric to continually argue in favor of a life of continual sinning.
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[FONT=Georgia, serif]Name one sin that Paul committed after his conversion! I cannot. Paul lived a a just and blameless life after his conversion.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Th 2:10[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Ye [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]are[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] witnesses, and God [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]also,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe: [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Co 11:1[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Be ye followers of me, even as I also [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]am[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] of Christ.
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You sin defenders deny this Scripture also...


1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:


You deny it is possible to follow in Christ's example. You have a form of godliness but deny the power. Grace becomes a cloak for living in sin instead of the power of God that sets one FREE from sin.
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[FONT=Georgia, serif]It was only a matter of time before someone would allude to Paul as the chief of sinners. Let us take a look at the context of that passage.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Ti 1:12[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Ti 1:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Who was before[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]it[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] ignorantly in unbelief. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Ti 1:14[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Ti 1:15[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] This [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]is[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]of whom I am chief. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Ti 1:16[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Howbeit [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Paul considered himself the chief of sinners because of his former life as Saul, he was a persecutor of the church. He was not living in sin in the present as the sin defenders would love you to believe. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]They would have you believe that Paul was living in sin, was carnal and sold under sin, was inside still vile and filthy. Is this what the Scripture really teaches? I have been explaining, very clearly, the context of Romans 7, 2Jo 1:8, and now 1 Ti 1:15. The sin defenders/wolves will only respond with rhetoric, not the Scriptures. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Was Paul the chief of hypocrites? He did write...[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 6:12[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Let not sin therefore reign[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 6:15[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] What then? [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]shall we sin,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] because we are not under the law, but under grace? [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]God forbid. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 6:2[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] God forbid. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 4:26[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Be ye angry, and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]sin not:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] let not the sun go down upon your wrath: [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Co 15:34[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Awake to righteousness, and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]sin not;[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]this[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] to your shame. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Ti 5:20[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Them that sin rebuke before all,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] that others also may fear. [/FONT]






[FONT=Georgia, serif]2Ti 2:19[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Is Paul telling people to do something he cannot do himself. Kind of like Jesus telling people to go and sin no more when they cannot actually do it.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]The truth is sin is a CHOICE. When you sin you CHOOSE to sin. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Jas 1:14[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Jas 1:15[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Jas 4:17[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]it[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] not, to him it is sin. [/FONT]




[FONT=Georgia, serif]The strawman that the sin defenders will bring up is a “perfection strawman†implying that in order to be righteous you can never make a mistake. Yet this is why the Bible teaches that God imputes us righteous by faith and that the just shall walk by faith. God looks at the heart. True righteousness in the eyes of God, comes from the heart. God is looking for those who obey from the heart. By obeying from the heart and coming into Christ is the road to salvation (Rom 6:17-18) whereby we are saved by a working faith that puts to use the the grace of God (Eph 2:8-10, Heb 11). Yes God does the saving, the righteousness comes from God, not ourselves, but we put it into effect through a working obedient faith where we become vessels (2Tim 2:21-22) unto every good work.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]God's people walk by faith in everything they do (Heb 10:37, Rom 14:23). One does not walk by a faith that works by love (Gal 5:6), establishing the law in the heart (Rom 3:31), fulfilling its righteous requirements as one walks after the Spirit (Rom 8:4) and spit in the face of God by willfully rebelling and serving the flesh (1Jo 2:3-16). No, those that are in Christ have crucified the flesh and its passions and desires Gal 5:24).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Those who promote a sin gospel will argue in favor of sin every single time. They never argue in favor of righteousness.[/FONT]




[FONT=Georgia, serif]The church system has changed the working faith, which is clearly illustrated in Hebrews 11, and replaced it with a passive trust in a package. That is Satan's gospel and if you buy into it, it will lead to your ruin.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Satan will say you DO NOT have to be a doer of the word. Jesus said that [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]you must[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] be a doer of the word.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mat 7:24[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]Therefore [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mat 7:25[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mat 7:26[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Mat 7:27[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT]