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True Repentance and Faith - The Road to Salvation

Falling short of perfection is a BIG DIFFERENCE to being carnal and sold under sin.
Actually, Digger it is you who erects a silly straw-man. I am not ‘carnal and sold under sin’ as you imply. I have obeyed from the heart the doctrine delivered via the Spirit of God as I walk in the light as He is in the light. Like you, I occasionally ‘fall short of perfection’ (i.e., sin). And like you I have the opportunity via God's gift of free-will to repent of those sins and confess them before Him – thus God is faithful and just to cleanse me of all sin through the cleansing blood of Jesus the Christ.

At least you finally admit you sin and for the record - no one who understands Holy Writ is buying the peculiar dogma you are peddling.
 
Zeke, I would caution you not to get wrapped up too long in a discussion with anyone who is living in denial of his/her continual need for repentance. They will only be persuaded by the Holy Spirit that they are no better than Paul in Romans 7 who was the chief of sinners. This doctrine has caused countless believers to be convinced that they were never truly His.

I stand with you, Paul, and those who throw themselves at the Feet of the Lord daily, fully confessing that I fall short of His greatest commandment every day. God Forbid that I ever stop depending on His Grace.

Amen! Thanks.
 
Are you saying you cannot be taught or do you simply refuse to be taught?

Can NOT, and not referencing 'the you' as being 'me.'

There are very certain and predictable scriptural principles that are directed along these subjects, one of which is no lying/deceiving or speaking dishonestly ourselves about 'not having' sin as a present tense matter.

Mike for example hit strongly on one of those principles. By understanding our position we come to very much lean to and rely on Gods Perpetual Mercy and Grace. This is of course 'no excuse' for sin, but there is another factor in play here that few will be 'able' to see as they CAN NOT see it, period.

That principle is that where the Word is sown, it is the TEMPTER who 'also' springs into actions to tempt the mind and hearts of 'believers.' This categorically places that operator 'with' us. That worker, the tempter BLOCKS his presence from being known in those the tempter attacks. This is one reason 'why' we can not say we 'have NO SIN' as a present tense application, because of the presence of the TEMPTER to TEMPT.

Paul pointed to the fact that he had 'evil present' with him and even a DEVIL in his own flesh. Obviously that devil, that tempter 'in his flesh' was the presence of EVIL who CAN NOT truthfully confess.

Hence the believer IN TRUTH begins to divide from that tempter, that presence, dividing the tempters thoughts from their own thoughts, knowing the difference between 'good and evil.'

Many will fail at perceiving this. The first sign of failure is the inability to say 'we have sin' as a present tense matter.

The second and more serious condition is failure to know 'why' that is a fact.

s
 
Can NOT, and not referencing 'the you' as being 'me.'
You CAN NOT - WHAT? You are not "you" - then who is the 'me'? What are you saying?

Are you sinless? Be careful...
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us
You are not deceiving yourself - are you?
 
And yes, I am a Christian. The selections available here were sectarian Christians only, and I am not a sectarian of any sort.
But you are 'a sectarian' of an odd-sort - your *dogmatic adherence* to a sectarian doctrine gives you away. You may want to change your signature to read - "And yes, I am a Christian of the sectarian kind."
sectarian - of, relating to, or characteristic of a sect. 2. Adhering or confined to the dogmatic limits of a sect...​
 
You CAN NOT - WHAT? You are not "you" - then who is the 'me'? What are you saying?

Are you sinless? Be careful...
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us
You are not deceiving yourself - are you?

You did not understand. You will when you hear His Words.

s
 
Paul struggled daily with sin AFTER his conversion. In Romans 7:15, he clearly states, "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do." He then confesses, "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out."

I am not ‘carnal and sold under sin’ as you imply.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Please explain how Romans 7:15 can be applied to a Christian and that Christian not be carnal and sold under sin (Rom 7:14)?

I occasionally ‘fall short of perfection’ (i.e., sin).
Could you please clarify what sort of sin you are speaking of here. Is this willful sin where you do wrong when you know it is wrong? Or is this simply an err in judgement, a wrong decision due to ignorance?

At least you finally admit you sin and for the record - no one who understands Holy Writ is buying the peculiar dogma you are peddling.
I actually said I don't sin in the context of willfully rebelling to God. You are not making any distinction between willful transgression and falling short due to ignorance. I agree that what I am sharing is peculiar and it is for a peculiar people.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

You have not answered a single question or even addressed any of the issues I raised with Scripture. Your issue is not with me and what you perceive I am peddling. Your issue is with what the Bible plainly teaches.

"Go and sin no more" is a very peculiar doctrine which very few like to hear.
 
You did not understand. You will when you hear His Words.

s

But I do understand - If [you] say that [you] have no sin, [you] deceive [yourself], and the truth is not in [you]... That is His words...
 
You say this as if there is not just one God?

Be careful how you word things. ;)
 
I see, I either looked at it wrong, or am going crazy...just thought your god?? Thinking you meant there are other gods.
 
1 John 2.1

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
 
Romans, starting at 3:10:
" As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.â€[b]
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.â€[c]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.â€[d]
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.â€[e]
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.â€[f]
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.â€[g]

Thank you, google and online Bibles for making this post possible. Anyway, I was just thinking about this the other day. We're born wretched, wicked, and frail, and unless God intervenes, we just get worse. The problem I have with my own walk, and I think a problem I share with others, is that we're never free of sin on this Earth. We can be self-righteous, cruel, covetous, hypocritical even after accepting Christ. And that's not even including more serious lapses in judgment and morality, such as sexual immorality, drug and/or alcohol use, idolatry and self-love, etc.

Part of Christ's appeal to me is that He lets us see life more as it really is, so full of flaws, falling so short of how it should be. This applies to everything and everyone on this planet. Christianity isn't about achieving sinless perfection; its about admitting, on a regular basis, your imperfection and wickedness and inborn need for redemption and guidance. Although I agree that Christians should push sin out of our lives and that we should pursue righteousness, I don't think we ever get there. I also don't think there's much point in legalism or self-loathing when we don't get there, because we're really not supposed to be working towards our own limited concept of perfection. We are called to live differently and according to God's Laws. He makes us better on this earth, but He doesn't make us sinless superhumans.
 
Anyway, I was just thinking about this the other day. We're born wretched, wicked, and frail, and unless God intervenes, we just get worse. The problem I have with my own walk, and I think a problem I share with others, is that we're never free of sin on this Earth.

Was Paul lying here?

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


We can be self-righteous, cruel, covetous, hypocritical even after accepting Christ. And that's not even including more serious lapses in judgment and morality, such as sexual immorality, drug and/or alcohol use, idolatry and self-love, etc.

That is the problem right there. Simply "Accepting Christ" is found nowhere in the Bible. If that is your gospel then no wonder you are still in bondage to sin, it has no power. Dig deep into the word, don't believe the wolves out there who teach you are to remain in sin till the day you die. Satan is behind that message and so many are deceived by it.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

This is what is going on today...

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

People need to stop listening to all these celebrity preachers and teachers and even the pastors at the local church who teach the same thing. Dig deep into the Scripture and believe what it plainly says.


You have to forsake all known sin or you will perish. Jesus used the examples of Nineveh and the Prodigal Son as clear examples of repentance. Paul spoke of how godly sorrow works a genuine repentance. We must have that crisis on conviction in our soul before God whereby the outcome is a genuine change of mind and action.

Those sins you listed will put your soul into perdition. Don't be deceived. The soul that sins shall die. The Bible is very clear. It is Satan who says "ye shall not surely die."

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.



Part of Christ's appeal to me is that He lets us see life more as it really is, so full of flaws, falling so short of how it should be. This applies to everything and everyone on this planet. Christianity isn't about achieving sinless perfection; its about admitting, on a regular basis, your imperfection and wickedness and inborn need for redemption and guidance. Although I agree that Christians should push sin out of our lives and that we should pursue righteousness, I don't think we ever get there. I also don't think there's much point in legalism or self-loathing when we don't get there, because we're really not supposed to be working towards our own limited concept of perfection. We are called to live differently and according to God's Laws. He makes us better on this earth, but He doesn't make us sinless superhumans.

Christianity is about being freed from the corruption that is in the world through lust. It is about coming to God through repentance and faith and being reconciled by the blood of Jesus Christ. It is about walking in purity and holiness and being a shining light in a dark world.

Sinless perfection is a strawman that people use. It is not about never making a mistake and being absolutely perfect. It is about the heart. God looks at the heart. It is about having no guile in the heart. We walk by a faith that works by love, we love God and our fellow man, we are benevolent to all. It is a simple message, it is the simplicity that is in Christ. The doctrine according to Godliness.
 
digger

All known sin is out of the question for a Christian

That is True because Christ has taken them away once and for all, and they cannot be charged with sin, ever, even the sins they presently committ !

Jn 1:29

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Heb 1:3

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Isa 6:7

And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Ps 79:9

Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake. For Christ's Sake !

Eph 4:32

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+4:31-32&version=KJV







 
savedbygrace57
I agree with you that Christ came down and took all our sins on the cross with him and paid the ultimate price for them his life. We, as christains, have to be careful that we do not act like the Pharisees and look down at people thinking that we are better then them. God gave me the reasurance that my sins are forgiven and that lets me concetrate on other things then haveing to worry about my sinning.
 
digger



That is True because Christ has taken them away once and for all, and they cannot be charged with sin, ever, even the sins they presently committ !

Satan taught the same doctrine.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

If you read the full account you will see that Satan questioned God's command, then contradicted it, then said something else would happen.

That is what you do when you say you can continue to sin and not die.

Yes Jesus takes our sins away, yes Jesus purges our sins, yes thine iniquity is taken away and the sin purged, yes God forgives. All that is true.

But you won't quote this verse will you?

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Paul says that the sins that are remitted are PAST SINS not future.

You won't quote this verse either will you?

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The blood will only cleanse you if you are walking in the light. How do you walk in the light? Well John answers that.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We walk in the light through repentance and faith whereby we forsake our evil deeds. Again read Rom 3:25. It is the past sins that are cleansed not future sins.

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Again sins that are confessed and forsaken will be forgiven and washed away. God will clear you, not so you can keep walking in sin with some magic cloak like you teach. That is a satanic doctrine of demons which lures people into complacency and keeps them in rebellion to God.

The foundation of the faith is in repentance and faith. We turn to God in faith having forsaken our dead works in repentance.

Heb_6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

The blood of Christ then purges those dead works, our past sins, from our conscience and then we can serve God in purity.

Heb_9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Those who come to a genuine repentance, forsake their sin, and turn to God are set apart or sanctified. They are no longer sinners. They are walking in the light and the blood cleanses their past transgressions.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Here is a verse that addresses the sins you are talking about.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

To continue in willful sin after being sanctified by the blood of Christ is to treat the blood of Christ like the blood of animals which could not cleanse one of all sin.

Jesus came purify a people and redeem them from all iniquity.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

He did not come to leave people as filthy sinners with some magic cloak to protect them from the wrath of God.

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

You try to deceive with vain words that you can partake in wickedness and still enter the kingdom because you are cloaked by Christ. It is a lie. I implore you to read your Bible without a theological filter. Your soul is in the balance.

Again, the propitiatory offering of Jesus Christ covers PAST transgression.

God deals with you in the present and is not a respecter of persons.

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
 
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