Turn The Other Cheek ?

[Loren Michael]

...but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:39)

Did you notice something? .... right cheek ...

How can a right-handed man slap another on the right cheek? Only one way... with a back-handed slap; an insult!

Another good article....
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1066

but jesus is also telling us to let them smack up the other cheek. both cheeks are getting hit. one or the other constitutes accepting a whupping. if the first was an insult, what of the second?

 

[Gary]

Translation: Someone insults you. Don't retaliate.

Read the link. It may help you understand:
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1066

 

[Loren Michael]

Translation: Someone insults you. Don't retaliate.

Read the link. It may help you understand:
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1066

i read it. it looks like pacifism to me.

 

[AHIMSA]

I think Jesus' entire ministry is a basic message of non-violence. It is rooted in the eternal law that hate begets hate, violence begets violence, and likewise, it is only love that produces love. I think Jesus essentially found that peace is found most fully in submission to love. You might think that allowing someone to physcially strike the other cheek, or injure us is sending the message that "Christian's are doormats"...but look at Christ...he became a "doormat", he became the most humble of us all. He became a "doormat" not because he was in any way, weaker than anyone, but because he was the strongest. He showed true strength by acting completely irrespective of his self. Even while he was being beaten, he was able to look beyond physical pain and say "I love this person as if he were me...even if they can't do the same". Only someone who has truly found peace can do that.

Even in Buddhism and Hinduism it is said "If one thinks himself the slayer and the other slain, they are decieved." Jesus' entire life was a living, breathing proclaimation of this eternal truth.

Of course, it is the natural response to want to protect ourselves. Christianity often gets too caught up in rules and regulations, in being concerned if we are "sinning". If you use violence in a justified situation, I don't think Jesus would say that "you are sinning", I think he had the wisdom to recognize that not everyone can achieve that level of inner stability and peace. Justice is obviously a good cause, but someone who has reached the highest spiritual peak is beyond the idea of "he wronged me" therefore "he deserves this". Jesus was, essenitally, beyond justice, beyond retribution. Jesus gives people exactly WHAT THEY DON'T DESERVE, contrary to "justice", which is the message of grace.

 

[Solo]

When you see him returning in glory to destroy the evil and wicked, let me know about your pacifist understanding of Jesus then. Until then you are just guessing.

 

[Loren Michael]

When you see him returning in glory to destroy the evil and wicked, let me know about your pacifist understanding of Jesus then. Until then you are just guessing.

i'm just forming opinions based on what i read.

 

[AHIMSA]

Honestly Solo, I think most of us here would appreciate it if you started making replies with substance...otherwise its not really neccessary to talk because I think everyone knows by now exactly what you will say:

Jesus is God
Jesus died for us
Accept this, repent, or go to hell and suffer forever.


Yes, yes, yes. We know. Thank you. Your conscience can be appeased. You've told all us crazy heathens the glorious truth...so now you can sleep at night.

 

[Solo]

When you see him returning in glory to destroy the evil and wicked, let me know about your pacifist understanding of Jesus then. Until then you are just guessing.

i'm just forming opinions based on what i read.

Read the whole book, and then explain to me why Jesus told his disciples to go and purchase swords. They purchased two swords and Jesus said that that was enough. Why? Revenge or self-defense?

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. Luke 22:36-38

 

[Drew]

Greetings Gary:

Finally, someone has actually taken my question seriously and not been simply dismissive. I will read your stuff in more detail. Thanks.

On the other hand, we get this classic dodge:

When you see him returning in glory to destroy the evil and wicked, let me know about your pacifist understanding of Jesus then. Until then you are just guessing.

 

[Solo]

Honestly Solo, I think most of us here would appreciate it if you started making replies with substance...otherwise its not really neccessary to talk because I think everyone knows by now exactly what you will say:

Jesus is God
Jesus died for us
Accept this, repent, or go to hell and suffer forever.


Yes, yes, yes. We know. Thank you. Your conscience can be appeased. You've told all us crazy heathens the glorious truth...so now you can sleep at night.

Those that already believe that get more substance from me, those that do not believe the basics will not understand more indepth items of the Word. When you get the basics believed, look me up. Until then don't waste my time.

 

[Loren Michael]

When you see him returning in glory to destroy the evil and wicked, let me know about your pacifist understanding of Jesus then. Until then you are just guessing.

i'm just forming opinions based on what i read.

Read the whole book, and then explain to me why Jesus told his disciples to go and purchase swords. They purchased two swords and Jesus said that that was enough. Why? Revenge or self-defense?

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. Luke 22:36-38

i dont' know. it almost seems to contradict the other passage. it is worth noting, though, that they only used the swords once. and then jusus told them to cut it out and healed the guy that got his ear cut off.

 

[AHIMSA]

I think its blatant proof that the Bible has contradictions. But those who are REQUIRED to believe in its perfection have to find ways around this...so they try and harmonize everything. The results are messy...

 

[Solo]

Greetings Gary:

Finally, someone has actually taken my question seriously and not been simply dismissive. I will read your stuff in more detail. Thanks.

On the other hand, we get this classic dodge:

When you see him returning in glory to destroy the evil and wicked, let me know about your pacifist understanding of Jesus then. Until then you are just guessing.

Too bad that you take the revelation of truth as a dodge. I answered your questions in another thread but you dodged answering them.

Once again, and read this very carefully:

Believers are not to seek out vengeance as is recorded in the verse of scripture denoting an "eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth", but we are to reprove, rebuke, eshew, correct evil. We are to provide and protect our children, our wives, our family, our friends, our nation, and ourselves. We are not to stand in this world without being willing to die protecting our families. Just as Christ died for his Church a husband is to love his wife the same. Where in the Bible does it say not to protect one's family and/or self?

Why did Jesus tell his disciples to purchase swords? (read a commentary if you don't know)

You stated on another thread that Christians should not be policeman because of your pacifist claims. That my friend is a great big dodge of intellectual ability to discuss points of this debate. I bring up the point of Jesus returning to meet out vengeance on the unbelieving and you call it pointless. Every point that I share with you, you refuse because it doesn't align with your position. Do not tag me with you unresponsible claim of me dodging your questions.

 

[Solo]

[quote="Loren Michael":30247]

When you see him returning in glory to destroy the evil and wicked, let me know about your pacifist understanding of Jesus then. Until then you are just guessing.

i'm just forming opinions based on what i read.

Read the whole book, and then explain to me why Jesus told his disciples to go and purchase swords. They purchased two swords and Jesus said that that was enough. Why? Revenge or self-defense?

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. Luke 22:36-38

i dont' know. it almost seems to contradict the other passage. it is worth noting, though, that they only used the swords once. and then jusus told them to cut it out and healed the guy that got his ear cut off.[/quote:30247]

Well if it was good for one time it must be twice as good the second time.

 

[Gary]

I think its blatant proof that the Bible has contradictions. But those who are REQUIRED to believe in its perfection have to find ways around this...so they try and harmonize everything. The results are messy...

No contradiction at all. Read the verses in context.

Do you have a Bible with commentary?

 

[Solo]

I think its blatant proof that the Bible has contradictions. But those who are REQUIRED to believe in its perfection have to find ways around this...so they try and harmonize everything. The results are messy...

I don't believe that you could tell the difference between a paradox and a contradiction, nor do I believe that you could understand the scripture if it was in first grade english since you are not born of God, but hey you are not dead yet so you have time. Remember, believing in Jesus is the first step. The fear of God is the beginning of knowledge.

 

[Loren Michael]

[quote="Loren Michael":2284b]

When you see him returning in glory to destroy the evil and wicked, let me know about your pacifist understanding of Jesus then. Until then you are just guessing.

i'm just forming opinions based on what i read.

Read the whole book, and then explain to me why Jesus told his disciples to go and purchase swords. They purchased two swords and Jesus said that that was enough. Why? Revenge or self-defense?

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. Luke 22:36-38

i dont' know. it almost seems to contradict the other passage. it is worth noting, though, that they only used the swords once. and then jusus told them to cut it out and healed the guy that got his ear cut off.

Well if it was good for one time it must be twice as good the second time.[/quote:2284b]

could you clarify what you mean please? i apologize- i don't understand what you are getting at.

also, the "do not resist an evil person" bit. that seems to be implying a little more than simple insults.

 

[Drew]

Greetings Solo:

There are times when it seems pretty clear that a discussion between 2 people just doesn't seem to work because the 2 people involved have different expectations of what constitutes a legitimate argument, what constitutes an evasive answer, etc. I think that this is what has happened here. I think it is best to allow others to judge the quality of the arguments that each of us has put forth. We can only hope and pray that God will enlighten all our minds as to the content of His will.

 

[Lewis]

Finally, someone has actually taken my question seriously and not been simply dismissive. I will read your stuff in more detail. Thanks.

Drew, let me ask you something, what would you do, if somone was beating up your wife and kids, or you ? Would you just stand there ? Or would you take action ? Do you think that just because we are Christians, that we are to be a bunch of punks ? Jesus is certainly not one, He showed it on earth, and He will show it again, when He returns. And Gary thank you for that article, I printed that because, I have talked to people more than a few times about this same subject.. And I also had forgot about Jesus telling them to purchase swords, I don't know why I forgot that, and i have used that scripture on this subject before. I am getting old at 50, my brain is going, excuse me while I ask my wife, where is the Geritol.

 

[Loren Michael]

Finally, someone has actually taken my question seriously and not been simply dismissive. I will read your stuff in more detail. Thanks.

Drew, let me ask you something, what would you do, if somone was beating up your wife and kids, or you ? Would you just stand there ? Or would you take action ? Do you think that just because we are Christians, that we are to be a bunch of punks ? Jesus is certainly not one, He showed it on earth, and He will show it again, when He returns. And Gary thank you for that article, I printed that because, I have talked to people more than a few times about this same subject.. And I also had forgot about Jesus telling them to purchase swords, I don't know why I forgot that, and i have used that scripture on this subject before. I am getting old at 50, my brain is going, excuse me while I ask my wife, where is the Geritol.

i think the logic behind pacifism is that no, you wouldn't raise a finger in the situation that you mention. to do so would cause conflict, which (i suppose in theory) creats more conflict. though it obviously hurts very much in the short run, there is less enduring conflict in the long run.

having said that, i still think pacifism is dumb. that's just the rationale for it, as i understand.