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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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two baptisms?
- Thread starter shad
- Start date
Pentecoastals are claiming that speaking in tongue is the sign of baptism of Holy Spirit; I disagree.
When we accept Jesus as Son of God and savior of the world you are qualified for water baptism, but we will not be baptised by Holy Spirit if we don't accept Jesus as our Lord as well too, and give our lives to Him. Heart of complete obedience and live for Jesus is the sign of Holy Spirit in us, imho.
When we accept Jesus as Son of God and savior of the world you are qualified for water baptism, but we will not be baptised by Holy Spirit if we don't accept Jesus as our Lord as well too, and give our lives to Him. Heart of complete obedience and live for Jesus is the sign of Holy Spirit in us, imho.
T
Tomlane
Guest
Shad stated:
Where does it state we have to be qualified for water baptism? And where does it say if we have to give our lives to Christ to accept to accept the Lord? How do we give complete obedience to Christ, with our sinful flesh give? Not possible.
That sounds like a works program for salvation and would no longer be a free gift.
I believe that is what the Pentecostals I know preach.
Tomlane
Where does it state we have to be qualified for water baptism? And where does it say if we have to give our lives to Christ to accept to accept the Lord? How do we give complete obedience to Christ, with our sinful flesh give? Not possible.
That sounds like a works program for salvation and would no longer be a free gift.
I believe that is what the Pentecostals I know preach.
Tomlane
There is only one Baptism, that of the Holy Spirit. The other (water), is an open profession of what has occurred spiritually.
The fruits of the Christian life are not by following any kind of works, but spirit produced in the believer (love,peace,joy,kindness,etc). As far as I remember I have never seen a tree "work" to produce fruit, it does it naturally. Works are not fruit.
The fruits of the Christian life are not by following any kind of works, but spirit produced in the believer (love,peace,joy,kindness,etc). As far as I remember I have never seen a tree "work" to produce fruit, it does it naturally. Works are not fruit.
samuel said:There is only one Baptism, that of the Holy Spirit. The other (water), is an open profession of what has occurred spiritually.
The fruits of the Christian life are not by following any kind of works, but spirit produced in the believer (love,peace,joy,kindness,etc). As far as I remember I have never seen a tree "work" to produce fruit, it does it naturally. Works are not fruit.
Jesus' followers are the trees. If we don't have the Holy Spirit in us, we will not produce godly fruit. There are many kinds of fruit. Following the ten commandments is another fruit. Jesus is giving us the guidelines how to serve Him in the New Testament.
Following the Ten Commandments is not fruit, but works. Read it in the Bible, no man may be saved by following the works of the law.
We are created new creatures to walk in good works, not to do good works. The spirit produces good works, without effort. Any effort to do good works, is not to walk in good works.
We are created new creatures to walk in good works, not to do good works. The spirit produces good works, without effort. Any effort to do good works, is not to walk in good works.
samuel said:
As long as we are in this world, we will struggle to do good. No one is good except God. That's why we need Jesus to fill our shortcomings. He will help us to overcome our weakness if we are wholeheartedly committed to Him. Good works are evidence that Holy Spirit is in us.
T
Tomlane
Guest
So Shad, how can you follow Christ and keep a perfect life since birth? No one has ever done it except God in the flesh.
Also God says salvation is a free gift not of word lest any man can boast. You theology is not showing Christ but your own works
You have to boast in the law to show God what you can do. That dishonors Christ when you break it and all do or God is a lair.
Romans 2:23  Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
Ephesians 2:8-9  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The good works comes after salvation, never before. Without the holy spirit our works are dead.
Tomlane
Also God says salvation is a free gift not of word lest any man can boast. You theology is not showing Christ but your own works
You have to boast in the law to show God what you can do. That dishonors Christ when you break it and all do or God is a lair.
Romans 2:23  Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
Ephesians 2:8-9  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The good works comes after salvation, never before. Without the holy spirit our works are dead.
Tomlane
stovebolts
Member
From the Net Bible
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith,20 and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 2:9 it is not from 21 works, so that no one can boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them. 23
20tc The feminine article is found before p?ste?? (pistews, “faithâ€Â) in the Byzantine text as well as in A ? 1881 pc. Perhaps for some scribes the article was intended to imply creedal fidelity as a necessary condition of salvation (“you are saved through the faithâ€Â), although elsewhere in the corpus Paulinum the phrase d?? t?? p?ste?? (dia th" pistew") is used for the act of believing rather than the content of faith (cf. Romans 3:30, 31; Galatians 3:14; Ephesians 3:17; Colossians 2:12). On the other side, strong representatives of the Alexandrian and Western texts (? B D* F G P 0278 6 33 1739 al bo) lack the article. Hence, both text-critically and exegetically, the meaning of the text here is most likely “saved through faith†as opposed to “saved through the faith.†Regarding the textual problem, the lack of the article is the preferred reading.
21tn Or “not as a result of.â€Â
23tn Grk “so that we might walk in them†(or “by themâ€Â).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets look at the word through (dia)
New Testament (eds. Brooke Foss Westcott, Fenton John Anthony Hort)
III. causal, through, by,
B. of the Instrument or Means. (Ephesians 2:8 translates dia as through, aka Instrument)
C. of Manner (Acts 15:7 translates dia as by, aka manner)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly, we are saved by grace. But as shown, faith is the primary instruments that God uses to manifest His good works as he transforms our lives and the lives around us.
Baptism is both a work and a ritual, but it is not a work of ourselves that we could ever boast, it is the work of God’s grace utilizing faith as His instrument. Furthermore, Baptism is more than a ritualistic outward expression; it is God’s divine intervention in our lives. It is where we are forgiven our sins and transformed into new creatures in Christ.
Colossians 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with him through your faith in the power of God who raised him from the dead. 2:13 And even though you were dead in your transgressions and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, he nevertheless made you alive with him, having forgiven all your transgressions. 2:14 He has destroyed what was against us, a certificate of indebtedness expressed in decrees opposed to us. He has taken it away by nailing it to the cross.
Faith does not serve baptism or baptism would be a work from mankind. Rather, baptism serves faith because it is through faith, that we receive grace. Thus, as God is in the business of transforming lives, baptism is a rite where grace is poured out upon us.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith,20 and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 2:9 it is not from 21 works, so that no one can boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them. 23
20tc The feminine article is found before p?ste?? (pistews, “faithâ€Â) in the Byzantine text as well as in A ? 1881 pc. Perhaps for some scribes the article was intended to imply creedal fidelity as a necessary condition of salvation (“you are saved through the faithâ€Â), although elsewhere in the corpus Paulinum the phrase d?? t?? p?ste?? (dia th" pistew") is used for the act of believing rather than the content of faith (cf. Romans 3:30, 31; Galatians 3:14; Ephesians 3:17; Colossians 2:12). On the other side, strong representatives of the Alexandrian and Western texts (? B D* F G P 0278 6 33 1739 al bo) lack the article. Hence, both text-critically and exegetically, the meaning of the text here is most likely “saved through faith†as opposed to “saved through the faith.†Regarding the textual problem, the lack of the article is the preferred reading.
21tn Or “not as a result of.â€Â
23tn Grk “so that we might walk in them†(or “by themâ€Â).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets look at the word through (dia)
New Testament (eds. Brooke Foss Westcott, Fenton John Anthony Hort)
III. causal, through, by,
B. of the Instrument or Means. (Ephesians 2:8 translates dia as through, aka Instrument)
C. of Manner (Acts 15:7 translates dia as by, aka manner)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clearly, we are saved by grace. But as shown, faith is the primary instruments that God uses to manifest His good works as he transforms our lives and the lives around us.
Baptism is both a work and a ritual, but it is not a work of ourselves that we could ever boast, it is the work of God’s grace utilizing faith as His instrument. Furthermore, Baptism is more than a ritualistic outward expression; it is God’s divine intervention in our lives. It is where we are forgiven our sins and transformed into new creatures in Christ.
Colossians 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism, you also have been raised with him through your faith in the power of God who raised him from the dead. 2:13 And even though you were dead in your transgressions and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, he nevertheless made you alive with him, having forgiven all your transgressions. 2:14 He has destroyed what was against us, a certificate of indebtedness expressed in decrees opposed to us. He has taken it away by nailing it to the cross.
Faith does not serve baptism or baptism would be a work from mankind. Rather, baptism serves faith because it is through faith, that we receive grace. Thus, as God is in the business of transforming lives, baptism is a rite where grace is poured out upon us.
Tomlane said:
Since birth? which birth, spritual birth? If we are spiritualy reborn, we will repent every time when we sin. When we repent He is just and marciful, He will forgive our sins.
It is free gift, but if you are not showing faithfulness by striving to be a good witness for Him, you don't have Holy Spirit in you. Jesus did not come down to give us licence to sin.
When did I say good works come before salvation??? I did not say such thing. Show me, if I did I will apologize.
Elijah_101
Member
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all Eph 4:5-6
The one baptism, as I see things, is the baptism of water.
All of the other baptisms (fire, Spirit, etc.) are facets of this first baptism of water.
The scriptures command us to go forth teaching and baptising all nations, meaning every human being on this planet.
The only way that one human being can baptise another human being, is with water.
All of the other baptisms mentioned in the scriptures will be handled by those divine.
In Christ,
Pogo
Nick
Member
You only need one baptism, that is the baptism of the spirit, which is done when you become a Christian.
The baptism with water is symbolic of your faith, and for my Anglican friends, Confirmation is also a symbol of your faith - a public declarration of your faith.
Faith comes before works. Always. If works are more important to you than your faith, then you are obviously trying to get to heaven based upon your own merit - which is never going to happen.
Doing good works (like the ten commandmants) should be an automatic response to your faith.
The baptism with water is symbolic of your faith, and for my Anglican friends, Confirmation is also a symbol of your faith - a public declarration of your faith.
Faith comes before works. Always. If works are more important to you than your faith, then you are obviously trying to get to heaven based upon your own merit - which is never going to happen.
Doing good works (like the ten commandmants) should be an automatic response to your faith.
When studying any subject mentioned in the scriptures, I think that it is best to compare all scriptures dealing with that issue, one against the other, to best determine the true message to us.
Three different times, In the Gospels of my NT, I find the example of John baptizing Jesus Christ by immersion in the waters of the Jordan River.
AFTER, Jesus rises up OUT of the water, the Holy Spirit descends, like a dove, onto Him.
Indeed, we truly only need ONE baptism.
Fortunately for us, the scriptures also tell us in Ephesians, that ONE baptism is all that there is!
Clearly, the one baptism that one person can perform on another person is a water baptism, after which the Holy Spirit follows of it's own accord.
There are many other passages which speak to different aspects of the rite of baptism, but in my view, none reveal the elements of the act itself so clearly as in Matthew 3, Mark 1 and Luke 3.
Please, this conformation that is mentioned above, where may I find it commanded, or an example of it being used, in the NT scriptures?
In Christ,
Pogo
Three different times, In the Gospels of my NT, I find the example of John baptizing Jesus Christ by immersion in the waters of the Jordan River.
AFTER, Jesus rises up OUT of the water, the Holy Spirit descends, like a dove, onto Him.
Indeed, we truly only need ONE baptism.
Fortunately for us, the scriptures also tell us in Ephesians, that ONE baptism is all that there is!
Clearly, the one baptism that one person can perform on another person is a water baptism, after which the Holy Spirit follows of it's own accord.
There are many other passages which speak to different aspects of the rite of baptism, but in my view, none reveal the elements of the act itself so clearly as in Matthew 3, Mark 1 and Luke 3.
Please, this conformation that is mentioned above, where may I find it commanded, or an example of it being used, in the NT scriptures?
In Christ,
Pogo
Nick
Member
I will try and look for you, but off the top of my head I am not sure where it is. But a confirmation is like a baptism, that you take when you are not a baby, but when you are an adult or teenager or whenever you want really, but it is you, not your parents that take vows to uphold Christ in your life etc. It's not essential to become a Christian at all, it doens't make you a "better" Chrisitian, it's more a public decleration of your faith.
But I will see where I can find this in the bible.
But I will see where I can find this in the bible.
Hi, duval -
Yes, the example of Phillip and the Ethopian eunuch further reinforces the pattern of, 1) first a baptism by immersion into water, followed by 2) the Holy Spirit descending.
Clearly, those who are teaching that the baptism of the Holy Spriit is the only, one, true, baptism are also ignoring the example of the baptism of the Gentile, Cornelius, found in Acts 10 and 11.
Here we find Peter, who had been denying Gentiles full access into the church, receiving an education from our Lord on the worthiness of all, even the Gentiles, to receive baptism, and therefore become Christians.
In this example, Peter sees the Holy Spirit fall onto the Gentile Cornelius, and all of his household, without first being baptised with water, and then manifest itself by the gifts that they received, and performed.
If the baptism of the Holy Spirit alone, is indeed enough, and by itself, is indeed the, one, true, baptism, then why, after first receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit WITHOUT WATER, were the Gentiles then commanded to go and be baptised WITH WATER?
Acts 10 KJV
(47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Verse 47, above, erases any doubt as to whether water is required for one to be baptised into Jesus' one true church.
BTW - My word searches on the scriptures with computer software fail to find ANY mention of "Conformation" in the NT. I therefore, must conclude that the provision(s) bearing such a label is an invention of man.
In Christ,
Pogo
Yes, the example of Phillip and the Ethopian eunuch further reinforces the pattern of, 1) first a baptism by immersion into water, followed by 2) the Holy Spirit descending.
Clearly, those who are teaching that the baptism of the Holy Spriit is the only, one, true, baptism are also ignoring the example of the baptism of the Gentile, Cornelius, found in Acts 10 and 11.
Here we find Peter, who had been denying Gentiles full access into the church, receiving an education from our Lord on the worthiness of all, even the Gentiles, to receive baptism, and therefore become Christians.
In this example, Peter sees the Holy Spirit fall onto the Gentile Cornelius, and all of his household, without first being baptised with water, and then manifest itself by the gifts that they received, and performed.
If the baptism of the Holy Spirit alone, is indeed enough, and by itself, is indeed the, one, true, baptism, then why, after first receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit WITHOUT WATER, were the Gentiles then commanded to go and be baptised WITH WATER?
Acts 10 KJV
(47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Verse 47, above, erases any doubt as to whether water is required for one to be baptised into Jesus' one true church.
BTW - My word searches on the scriptures with computer software fail to find ANY mention of "Conformation" in the NT. I therefore, must conclude that the provision(s) bearing such a label is an invention of man.
In Christ,
Pogo