Two Kinds of Churches

[elijah23]

It seems to me there are two kinds of churches. First, there is the kind dominated by people who are trying to obey the Lord’s commandments. Then there are the kind dominated by people playing a perpetual game of “You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours.â€

Each of us will sooner or later join one of these groups.

 

[WIP]

I think there is also a third type that concentrate so much on appeasing the masses to gain membership they forget or ignore teaching the truth of the gospel. They share what I call the "feel good" doctrine because it is more acceptable and popular.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then there are the kind dominated by people playing a perpetual game of “You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours.”

Each of us will sooner or later join one of these groups.

You mean, "you look the other way, and I'll look the other way", all in the name of 'not judging', right?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think there is also a third type that concentrate so much on appeasing the masses to gain membership they forget or ignore teaching the truth of the gospel. They share what I call the "feel good" doctrine because it is more acceptable and popular.

The Bible calls it 'yeast', and how it eventually works it's way all the way through the batch. Until, at the end of history, Christ comes back to an almost unrecognizable church puffed up with the pride of it's 'progressive' teachings and beliefs.

 

[Grazer]

What's with trying to label people?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What's with trying to label people?

It's important to distinguish between what I call the 'church of the world' and the true church of Jesus Christ.

The church of the world is where the world goes when it wants to be 'religious' without being changed. It is that church that accommodates just those kinds of people. Meanwhile, the true church of Christ resists the leaven of the world--it's godless, spiritless teachings and beliefs--and would rather have those who don't want to conform to the truth stay out of the nation and kingdom and people of God, the church.

 

[Grazer]

It's important to distinguish between what I call the 'church of the world' and the true church of Jesus Christ.

The church of the world is where the world goes when it wants to be 'religious' without being changed. It is that church that accommodates just those kinds of people. Meanwhile, the true church of Christ resists the leaven of the world--it's godless, spiritless teachings and beliefs--and would rather have those who don't want to conform to the truth stay out of the nation and kingdom and people of God, the church.

And being open, inviting, encouraging friendship and fellowship fit into your church somewhere yes?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And being open, inviting, encouraging friendship and fellowship fit into your church somewhere yes?

Being open, inviting, and encouraging friendship should never mean a church is willing to compromise the truth so outsiders can be a part of the church but remain separated from the truth.

Openness is so unbelievers can learn and conform to the truth, not so unbelievers can remain in the world and somehow be a part of God's people. But that is exactly what the church has let 'openness' do to the church. So much so that there is what I call the 'church of the world', thoroughly polluted and compromised by the world and it's thinking and beliefs, and the true church of God that resists the world.

 

[Grazer]

Being open, inviting, and encouraging friendship should never mean a church is willing to compromise the truth so outsiders can be a part of the church but remain separated from the truth.

Openness is so unbelievers can learn and conform to the truth, not so unbelievers can remain in the world and somehow be a part of God's people. But that is exactly what the church has let 'openness' do to the church. So much so that there is what I call the 'church of the world', thoroughly polluted and compromised by the world and it's thinking and beliefs, and the true church of God that resists the world.

But you need to define what the "true church" believes. Simply saying whatever the world doesn't leaves a lot of scope for interpretation

 

[tim-from-pa]

It's funny that this thread was brought up. I made a comment before that I jokingly refer to my church as two churches: church #1 and church #2. The people of church #1 dutifully go to services each week, then stuff their face in the social halls with sugary treats afterwards. A little pulpit spirituality is enough to get them through the week. If only they had more than just spiritual morsels and be as well fed as in the social hall.

Church #2 are those who actually go to classes after services, and/or hold periodic bible studies and want to learn more, and about the things to come. I belong to church #2. I quietly enter the door in the back of the church after services as I am coming while others are starting to leave.I go to a room of us waiting to dig into the Word --- this room is not far from the back door. Then I leave afterwards, which, BTW, is probably why a person from church #1 if by happenstance comes across me asks, "where have you been all this time? I never see you." :toofunny Certainly not in vain liturgy or sugary treats, that's for sure.

 

[Aardverk]

Being open, inviting, and encouraging friendship should never mean a church is willing to compromise the truth so outsiders can be a part of the church but remain separated from the truth.

Openness is so unbelievers can learn and conform to the truth, not so unbelievers can remain in the world and somehow be a part of God's people. But that is exactly what the church has let 'openness' do to the church. So much so that there is what I call the 'church of the world', thoroughly polluted and compromised by the world and it's thinking and beliefs, and the true church of God that resists the world.

What you really mean is, "ToS: 2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself. "<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->

If you do not allow people to interpret things differently from you, you allow no freedom of thought, no room for discussion, no learning and no growth. Openness allows others in - and that is good! Try then to listen and learn rather than trying simply to dictate. ;)

 

[Grazer]

What you really mean is, 'conform to the truth as espoused by Jethro Bodine'.

If you do not allow people to interpret things differently from you, you allow no freedom of thought, no room for discussion, no learning and no growth. Openness allows others in - and that is good! Try then to listen and learn rather than trying simply to dictate. Try not to presume that you know best. Sometimes you will be right but sometimes you will be wrong Jethro. If you doubt that - ask your wife;)

Completely agree. I don't agree with members of my church on a number of issues but they haven't cast me out or anything. They allow me to express my views and I listen to theirs and it's all very respectful.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Completely agree. I don't agree with members of my church on a number of issues but they haven't cast me out or anything. They allow me to express my views and I listen to theirs and it's all very respectful.

Yes, that's how it works...among believers. I'm actually big on 'open' fellowships where this can happen.

The problem is when we think we have to give room to people who resist Christianity and are not born again at all. They are the ones who destroy the church. They are the wolves Paul warned would come into the church (Acts 20 I think). Their mission is to undermine the church, not build it up.

 

[Grazer]

Yes, that's how it works...among believers. I'm actually big on 'open' fellowships where this can happen.

The problem is when we think we have to give room to people who resist Christianity and are not born again at all. They are the ones who destroy the church. They are the wolves Paul warned would come into the church (Acts 20 I think). Their mission is to undermine the church, not build it up.

Isn't that part of the point of the church though? To invite non-believers to become part of the body of Christ? Its how I started; alpha course and a local church and gave them a whole new meaning to the word cynicism - but it all started because a Christian invited me!! You only have to fear opposing views if you're not confident or sure about your faith and its not built on solid foundations.

 

[stovebolts]

Only 2 types of churches? Read the first couple of chapters of revelation and you'll get the rest of them with remedy.

When reading the new testament, one quickly finds that unity does not mean uniformity. The church as a whole is extreemly dynamic. But as far as the op, for those getting their socal fetish at the doughnut table, that's not a bad thing. But the bigger question might be, do you think you are a better christian because you study more? Does this put you above your brother?

Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. That's what paul says. With knowledge comes responsibility and in your anger donot sin. Use that frustration and knowledge in love. Havve a doughnut and get to know them other people. Chances are they have a problem your knowledge could remedy, if you do so in love. Other wise, you'll simply be viewed as a snoot.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Isn't that part of the point of the church though? To invite non-believers to become part of the body of Christ? Its how I started; alpha course and a local church and gave them a whole new meaning to the word cynicism - but it all started because a Christian invited me!! You only have to fear opposing views if you're not confident or sure about your faith and its not built on solid foundations.

You're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying.

Unbelievers are welcome in the church to learn about and conform to the truth. But as history as shown, the world has conformed the church to the unbelievers visiting it. The church has let outsiders do that by not drawing the line on the truth. All it takes is a little leaven.

A church must make it clear in some way that you can not be a Christian, and attend a Christian church, with the intent of resisting Christian truths and remaining in the life you are now living. People who do not have any intention of changing but want to impress their non-Christian views on the church must be shown the exit door.

 

[stovebolts]

Isn't that part of the point of the church though? To invite non-believers to become part of the body of Christ? Its how I started; alpha course and a local church and gave them a whole new meaning to the word cynicism - but it all started because a Christian invited me!! You only have to fear opposing views if you're not confident or sure about your faith and its not built on solid foundations.

Jesus told us to go out and make disciples, not bring them in to hear a good sermon. One becomes a part of the body of christ by way of a relationship with christ, not by way of doctrine or having all the right answers. This is why the body of christ can be found in every denomination.

 

[Grazer]

Jesus told us to go out and make disciples, not bring them in to hear a good sermon. One becomes a part of the body of christ by way of a relationship with christ, not by way of doctrine or having all the right answers. This is why the body of christ can be found in every denomination.

I agree with your last bit about relationship. Whilst we are told to "go out and make disciples" getting them into the church and giving them some answers is not a bad thing either (assuming the church in question even knows the answers)

 

[Grazer]

You're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying.

Unbelievers are welcome in the church to learn about and conform to the truth. But as history as shown, the world has conformed the church to the unbelievers visiting it. The church has let outsiders do that by not drawing the line on the truth. All it takes is a little leaven.

A church must make it clear in some way that you can not be a Christian, and attend a Christian church, with the intent of resisting Christian truths and remaining in the life you are now living. People who do not have any intention of changing but want to impress their non-Christian views on the church must be shown the exit door.

Yeah, I've never conformed to anything in my life (with the possible exception of my work place) and I'm not about to start now. Getting people to "conform" is not what Christianity is about. As StoveBolts very rightly put it, it's about relationship.

 

[Adullam]

It seems to me there are two kinds of churches. First, there is the kind dominated by people who are trying to obey the Lord’s commandments. Then there are the kind dominated by people playing a perpetual game of “You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours.â€

Each of us will sooner or later join one of these groups.

Both are of men. The community of the Spirit lives constantly in the presence of God. That presence IS the witness of the truth. No need for man made evangelical programs.