Two witnesses

[Godbless]

Are they with us today, If so what is their purpose from God?

 

[Osgiliath]

First, the Two Witnesses are written of here:

Revelation 11:3-7
11:3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."
11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
11:5 And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed.
11:6 They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.
11:7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them…â€Â

And

Zechariah 4:11-14
4:11 Then I said to him, "What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the lampstand?"
4:12 And a second time I answered and said to him, "What are these two branches of the olive trees, which are beside the two golden pipes from which the golden oil is poured out?"
4:13 He said to me, "Do you not know what these are?" I said, "No, my lord."
4:14 Then he said, "These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth."


What is their purpose from God?

Paul wrote,

". . . Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses." (2 Corinthians 13:1)

And God told Moses,

"On the testimony of two or three witnesses a man shall be put to death, but no one shall be put to death on the testimony of only one witness." (Deuteronomy 17:6)

The Great Tribulation is a time of testing. God will test us during the Great Tribulation to see who can be saved and who cannot. God will separate the sheep from the goats. Jesus will acknowledge this separation at His return (Matthew 25:32). A person will be condemned for rejecting the testimony of God’s Two Witnesses. All people must stand before the judgment of Christ before they can receive their reward and the Two Witnesses will testify to the authority of God’s Word and the power of the Holy Spirit. Rejecting this very testimony is the subject and theme of the Unpardonable Sin (a different subject for a different thread).

Are they with us today? Unknown. I could make an educated guess and give my personal opinion, but I like to stick with what can be documented when discussing The Word of God with others :naughty .

 

[Shilohsfoal]

It is written that these two witnessses torment those who dwell upon the earth in rev 11;10.
It is also written that they smite the earth with plagues in 11;6.

This reminds me of the things that took place in Egypt while Moses was there .It is written that they die in a place spiritually called "Egypt"where our Lord was cricified=Jerusalem.-Rev 11;8.
I dont expect to see them.I am instructed to not go there during those days.Luke 21;21

 

[guysmith]

Hello Godbless,

You stated: Are they with us today, If so what is their purpose from God?

My response: Yes, if are in the end times. No one knows who the two witnesses are. They don't know even themselves. All the great appointments (Noah, Moses, Mary's virgin birth) were preceded God informing them of there place in history. Similarly, I believe that one day God will approach one or both of the two (in a manner I have no idea how) and inform them of the task at hand.

You stated: If so what is their purpose from God?

My response: Like Moses and Aaron, which left Goshen to approach pharoh during the day, the two will leave the confines of the old city to "do their thing" in front of the CNN cameras. And like Moses and Aaron, which returned to Goshen at days end, the two will return to the safety of old city (along with it's Christian inhabitants) at days end.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[guysmith]

Hello Shilohsfoal,

You stated: I dont expect to see them.I am instructed to not go there during those days.Luke 21;21

My response: Luke, as I understand it, was written after 70 AD and the writer may have been influenced into thinking that that Roman siege was the one Christ was talking about. A better interpretation is: Matthew 24: 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

This is not instruction flee from Jerusalem, but rather instructions to flee toward the old city of Jerusalem (Mount Zion) which is build on three small mountains.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Hello Shilohsfoal,

You stated: I dont expect to see them.I am instructed to not go there during those days.Luke 21;21

My response: Luke, as I understand it, was written after 70 AD and the writer may have been influenced into thinking that that Roman siege was the one Christ was talking about. A better interpretation is: Matthew 24: 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

This is not instruction flee from Jerusalem, but rather instructions to flee toward the old city of Jerusalem (Mount Zion) which is build on three small mountains.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Luke 21;21-23
Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains;and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.For these be the days of vengeance,that all things which are written may be forfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child,and to them that give suck,in those days.for there shall be great distress in the land,and wrath upon this people.

Im quite sure Im not to go to Judea during those 3 1/2 years.But since I dont worship the beast and I dont plan on recieveing his mark then I really have no reason to go there.I understand alot of people believe all things which are written has already been forfilled but I dont think it has.
If all things have already been forfilled then we should know who the two witnessses are and when thier dead bodies laid in the street of Jerusalem.
I dont believe the writer believed all things which are written has been forfilled either.

 

[guysmith]

Hello Shilohsfoal,

If the instructions truly are to flee from Jerusalem, then what are the two witnesses doing there? Also, what are the worshipers doing there?

Revelation 11:1
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Hello Shilohsfoal,

If the instructions truly are to flee from Jerusalem, then what are the two witnesses doing there? Also, what are the worshipers doing there?

Revelation 11:1
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

According to the scriptures they are being murderd there.
Daniel 11;33
And they that understand among the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil many days.
Rev 13;10
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity;he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Perhaps you can tell me why they are being taken captive.Why are they being killed with the sword?Is it because they understand what the abomination is and are telling others?Is it because of thier testimony of Jesus?Is it because they dont worship the image of the beast?
It is written that the two witnesses are there tormenting people in rev11;10 and I see no reason why I would want to go there to watch it .Im told not to enter during that time so I wont.

 

[Godbless]

Hi shilohsfoal

The two witnesses will torment the earth for Gods purpose and Glory. The purpose is the calling of all to repentance with signs, for those who follow them their ropes are cleansed by the calling of God and leave all things behind and carry their cross with nowhere to rest their heads. These two witnesses will be at the same time as the anti -Christ and false prophet who become a mirror image of deceit.
The two witnesses protect those who walk with them and have cleansed their ropes. And if anyone wants to harm them fire will descend down from heaven and kill them, in fact that is how they must die. They walk in unity in faith in Christ as Christ walks with them in his Spirit, behold when two or more come into agreement in the will of God the lord is in their midst. A new song they will sing while walking to the old city to face the anti Christ and false prophet. No harm will come to those who follow them. This will happen at the second half of the GT. When the two witnesses die the followers will go to mount Zion on the North side of the old city where they will wait for the Lord to come. Who are the two witnesses? They are two witnesses who agree and pray upon the will of God and the lord becomes the third witnesses before the throne of God.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Hi shilohsfoal

The two witnesses will torment the earth for Gods purpose and Glory. The purpose is the calling of all to repentance with signs, for those who follow them their ropes are cleansed by the calling of God and leave all things behind and carry their cross with nowhere to rest their heads. These two witnesses will be at the same time as the anti -Christ and false prophet who become a mirror image of deceit.
The two witnesses protect those who walk with them and have cleansed their ropes. And if anyone wants to harm them fire will descend down from heaven and kill them, in fact that is how they must die. They walk in unity in faith in Christ as Christ walks with them in his Spirit, behold when two or more come into agreement in the will of God the lord is in their midst. A new song they will sing while walking to the old city to face the anti Christ and false prophet. No harm will come to those who follow them. This will happen at the second half of the GT. When the two witnesses die the followers will go to mount Zion on the North side of the old city where they will wait for the Lord to come. Who are the two witnesses? They are two witnesses who agree and pray upon the will of God and the lord becomes the third witnesses before the throne of God.

I agree the two witnesses are in Judea at the same time the beast and false prophet are which is why I cant go there.I would have to take the mark of the beast just to enter his kingdom.I wasnt born in Judea so I wouldnt already be there when the false prophet arrives and Im not all that sure the beast would give anyone a visa so they could travel out of Judea during that time.Ive not read of anyone following the two witnessses though.I dont know where you are getting this information nor have I read of anyone being protected by those two witnesses.Where does it say they protect anyone that follows them?Heres a group they failed to protect though.
Rev20;4
And I saw thrones,and they sat upon them,and judgement was given unto them;and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,and for the word of God,and which had not worshiped the beast,neither his image,neither had recieved his mark upon thier foreheads,or in thier hands;and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


As to why the two witnesses are there,I dont know.
For all I know they might be there saying "Thus sayeth the Lord,Let my people go".
I dont know.

 

[Godbless]

Symbol for sackcloth worn by the two witnesses

Sackcloth and Ashes
Although the modern-day idea of "wearing sackcloth" is often that of someone dressed in a burlap grain bag with head and arm holes cut in it, during Bible history its appearance was quite different. Sackcloth was most often made of coarse, black goat's hair. As its name indicates, it was used for sacks, but was also customarily worn by mourners (in some countries, the ancient custom is still faintly seen today when mourners wear black arm bands at funerals), or as a sign of deep repentance and humility. Ashes were often included as a further symbol of personal abhorrence and chagrin. Also, sackcloth was, and will be (in some contemporary form), in the case of the two witnesses, worn by some Prophets. Mourning
"Then Jacob rent his garments, and put sackcloth upon his loins, and mourned for his son many days." (Genesis 37:34 RSV) "Then David said to Joab and to all the people who were with him, "Rend your clothes, and gird on sackcloth, and mourn before Abner " AndKing David followed the bier." (2 Samuel 3 :31 RSV)
"When Mordecai learned all that had been done, Mordecai rent his clothes and put on sackcloth and ashes, and went out into the midst of the city, wailing with a loud and bitter cry" (Esther 4:1 RSV) (Esther 4:1 RSV)
Repentance
"Then He began to upbraid the cities where most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Chorazin! woe to you, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes." (Matthew 11:20-21 RSV) "So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of The Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, three days' journey in breadth. Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he cried, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!" And the people of Nineveh believed God; they proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them to the least of them. Then tidings reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, and covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he made proclamation and published through Nineveh, "By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; let them not feed, or drink water, but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them cry mightily to God; yea, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence which is in his hands." (Jonah 3:3-8 RSV)
Prophets
"And I will grant My two witnesses power to prophesy for one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth." These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands which stand before the Lord of the earth. And if any one would harm them, fire pours out from their mouth and consumes their foes; if any one would harm them, thus he is doomed to be killed. They have power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they desire." (Revelation 11:3-6 RSV)

Will the people of the Earth listen to them and repent not those who live by blind Faith but those who are ignorant in their arrogance.

Upon completion of their duties, they will be viciously martyred in Jerusalem, by Satan himself (Revelation 11:7), where their bodies will be left in the street for over 3 days (Revelation 11:8-9) - they will not be given even a simple funeral, and chances are their dead bodies will be brutally abused as they are shown on news media all around the world (Revelation 11:9-10).

Zechariah speaks of these same 2 men! He speaks of their calling, their ministry! The charge to build and establish kosher worship and sacrifice in the Second Jewish Temple that is to be built on This Place!
Zech 4:2-3
2And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
Zech 4:9
9The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
Zech 4:1
11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
Zech 4:14
14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.
These Two olive trees Zerubbabel and Joshua are the builder and the High Priest who re-established proper Temple worship and sacrifice for the Second Jewish Temple on This Place!
Some 400 years later, in the days of Christ, This Place, this Second Jewish Temple, turned into a curse again! The Glory of the LORD left again. It was Christ who called the Pharisees and Sadducees hypocrites. It was Christ who said it would come to destruction!
Last two witnesses
One billion Moslems are ready to march into Israel when God stirs the spirit of these Two Witnesses to declare they are going to build a Third Jewish Temple, and establish kosher worship and sacrifice at This Place in preparation for the Second Coming of the Jewish Messiah! A coming kingdom will be proclaimed that will rule the world from This Place! The Jews, the apostate Christians, the world will all say ... shush! These men have a mission that can't be shushed! They will have a mandate from God! Build my house in 3 1/2 years, in 42 months, in a thousand two hundred and three score days! The Jihad is called! A religious war where a billion Moslems (according to today's leaders) invade Israel. And, the events of Ezekiel 38 & 39 take place. This is not the coming war with Russia as some have speculated. It is a Moslem invasion of Israel. The last Jihad! It makes more sense! It is the end of Islam! Folks, a Third Jewish Temple can never be built in This Place unless the heart of the Moslem world changes or they are wiped off the face of the earth. I'm sure the warning will be clear from this little group of Jews lead by the Two Witnesses, the Two Olive Trees, but I'm just as sure their warnings will be ignored. The curse of This Place will again find realization to any who will defy God's sovereignty over This Place!

Chronologically Ezekiel 38 & 39 (the end of Islam) takes place before Ezekiel 40-48 (the Third Jewish Temple).
(In fact, Ezekiel 36 & 37 about the dry bones coming back to life proceeds the end of Islam)
Israel's return in Ezekiel 36 & 37 is as applicable today (1948) as it is to the days of Ezra/Nehemiah.
Here is the chronology of the end of Ezekiel from today's perspective.

1. Israel returns to the land (dry bones come to life) Ezekiel 36 & 37.
2. The Last Jihad takes place (a war that has not happened - yet) Ezekiel 38 & 39.
3. The Temple is built & worship (sacrifice) begins (a Temple that has not been built - yet) Ezekiel 40 - 48.

This invasion, this last Jihad, leaves 5/6ths of a billion Moslems dead on the hills of Israel. It is the end of Islam!

For 42 months these Two Olive Trees minister. They build the Third Jewish Temple, Ezekiel's Temple! They establish kosher worship again (sacrifice). God has removed Islam. The Moslem Mosques are cleared aside by the Two Witnesses just as the Jews have cleared the refuge dump from in front of the Western Wall. One of the Two Witnesses is the builder like Solomon and Zerubbabel, the other is designated the High Priest like Zadok and Joshua. These Olive Trees establish proper, kosher, sacrificial, God acceptable, Old Testament, worship in this Temple. No Jew, No Christian, No holy man of any sort, No one knows how to build or how to establish worship that is acceptable to God, which will bring the glory of the LORD back to This Place! The Two Witnesses who manifest the power of God will! The Anti-Christ kills them after 42 months. The half way point of the 7 year tribulation. Their task has been completed; their ministry is accomplished. The time of Jacob's Trouble begins, not some mid-trib rapture baloney. The Anti-Christ desecrates This Place for the last 42 months of tribulation period. The faithful Jews, the followers of the Two Witnesses, the 144,000 all must flee the Temple and Jerusalem after the death of the Two Witnesses. They are in for trouble. All the hatred of the world will be directed toward them. Revenge for all those who died as a result of the curse of This Place will focus on them. The Anti-Christ will lead in the attempt to wipe them off the face of the earth. He desecrates the Temple just as Antiochus did to the Second Temple before the Maccabeean revolt.



Rodger

 

[Godbless]

New names like Gomer and Togarmah are speculated with good authority to be modern Turkey. Gomer settled both north (Russia) and south (Turkey) of the Black Sea, and so represents Moslems of both those countries. Noah landed on Mount Ararat one of the peaks of the Caucus Mountains which has been the boarder between the USSR and Turkey. Now the break away Moslem countries of the former USSR are on the boarder north of the Caucasus. They (the Gog) seem to be the instigators of this last Jihad. They flow out of the North joined by Turkey to settle the conflict with the Two Witnesses and This Place! Other countries which join the invasion are Persia who just recently changed it's name to Iran. They flow from the East. I think Iraq will put aside it's animosities as will all the other Gulf States in this great Moslem invasion from the East. From the South comes Ethiopia and Libya. This is clearly Northern Africa which is all Moslem. This is not a coming war between Israel and Russia. It is the opening of the 7 year tribulation where God declares His sovereignty over the Temple Mount, over This Place, and it becomes the greatest curse to those who would defy His will. It is the Last Jihad! One billion Moslem invaders are struck down in an instant. Israel spends 7 years (the entire tribulation period) burying the dead. They initially spend 7 months in a national effort, then 7 years in a long term attempt to cleanse the land.

 

[micaela]

There is a man by the name of Ronald Weinland who claims to be one of the two witnesses. He has written 2 books and in the second book he makes his claim. after reading the 2nd book I agree that a lot of the things that he says are true but I cannot personally accept that he is one of the witnesses. has anyone else heard of this man? I would like to hear some feedback about this. maybe you could google him and download his book online like i did.
God Bless.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

There is a man by the name of Ronald Weinland who claims to be one of the two witnesses. He has written 2 books and in the second book he makes his claim. after reading the 2nd book I agree that a lot of the things that he says are true but I cannot personally accept that he is one of the witnesses. has anyone else heard of this man? I would like to hear some feedback about this. maybe you could google him and download his book online like i did.
God Bless.

He seems to be in the wrong part of the world.
Maybe hes lost?

 

[MMarc]

There is a man by the name of Ronald Weinland who claims to be one of the two witnesses. He has written 2 books and in the second book he makes his claim. after reading the 2nd book I agree that a lot of the things that he says are true but I cannot personally accept that he is one of the witnesses. has anyone else heard of this man? I would like to hear some feedback about this. maybe you could google him and download his book online like i did.
God Bless.


I read one of his short books, I wrote to him and asked when he would go to Jerusalem to be martyred.

He never wrote back.

 

[kingdavid]

There is a man by the name of Ronald Weinland who claims to be one of the two witnesses. He has written 2 books and in the second book he makes his claim. after reading the 2nd book I agree that a lot of the things that he says are true but I cannot personally accept that he is one of the witnesses. has anyone else heard of this man? I would like to hear some feedback about this. maybe you could google him and download his book online like i did.
God Bless.


I read one of his short books, I wrote to him and asked when he would go to Jerusalem to be martyred.

He never wrote back.

the 2 witnesses wil be israelites or jews and i believe they are in israel now but their ministry has not begun yet.

 

[Matthew24:34]

Hello Shilohsfoal,

You stated: I dont expect to see them.I am instructed to not go there during those days.Luke 21;21

My response: Luke, as I understand it, was written after 70 AD and the writer may have been influenced into thinking that that Roman siege was the one Christ was talking about. A better interpretation is: Matthew 24: 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

This is not instruction flee from Jerusalem, but rather instructions to flee toward the old city of Jerusalem (Mount Zion) which is build on three small mountains.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Luke 21;21-23
Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains;and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.For these be the days of vengeance,that all things which are written may be forfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child,and to them that give *bleep*,in those days.for there shall be great distress in the land,and wrath upon this people.

Im quite sure Im not to go to Judea during those 3 1/2 years.But since I dont worship the beast and I dont plan on recieveing his mark then I really have no reason to go there.I understand alot of people believe all things which are written has already been forfilled but I dont think it has.
If all things have already been forfilled then we should know who the two witnessses are and when thier dead bodies laid in the street of Jerusalem.
I dont believe the writer believed all things which are written has been forfilled either.

We MUST find them there in that first-century Jerusalem where the Temple was still standing! John was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN near. Why do so many ignore this clear time restraint on the contents of the Revelation. The two witnesses involve people or things of THAT time frame and none other! That is certainly what John believed when he wrote! He understood SHORTLY and NEAR--why can't we?

Matthew24:34

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Hello Shilohsfoal,

You stated: I dont expect to see them.I am instructed to not go there during those days.Luke 21;21

My response: Luke, as I understand it, was written after 70 AD and the writer may have been influenced into thinking that that Roman siege was the one Christ was talking about. A better interpretation is: Matthew 24: 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

This is not instruction flee from Jerusalem, but rather instructions to flee toward the old city of Jerusalem (Mount Zion) which is build on three small mountains.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Luke 21;21-23
Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains;and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.For these be the days of vengeance,that all things which are written may be forfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child,and to them that give *bleep*,in those days.for there shall be great distress in the land,and wrath upon this people.

Im quite sure Im not to go to Judea during those 3 1/2 years.But since I dont worship the beast and I dont plan on recieveing his mark then I really have no reason to go there.I understand alot of people believe all things which are written has already been forfilled but I dont think it has.
If all things have already been forfilled then we should know who the two witnessses are and when thier dead bodies laid in the street of Jerusalem.
I dont believe the writer believed all things which are written has been forfilled either.

We MUST find them there in that first-century Jerusalem where the Temple was still standing! John was shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place because the time was THEN near. Why do so many ignore this clear time restraint on the contents of the Revelation. The two witnesses involve people or things of THAT time frame and none other! That is certainly what John believed when he wrote! He understood SHORTLY and NEAR--why can't we?

Matthew24:34

Im sure you can make something up.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Shilohsfoal
Im sure you can make something up.

Gollum and Josephus maybe? But wasn’t Gollum once Josephus until the power of the Ring corrupted him?

 

[Sinthesis]

Are they with us today, If so what is their purpose from God?

The two witnesses are the two belief systems that testify to the nations the truth of God; Judaism and Christianity.