Using the Law Lawfully / The Ox Thread

[eddif]

i dont like to think about the ox walking in the meal .. yucky ...he rolls the wheel

Where is a historian when you need one?

Treading out the grain.

eddif

 

[eddif]

The personality of the preacher shows through his removing the husk from the word of God. The parable like aspect of the law has to be removed, before the hidden truth is presented for use in teaching.

The clean inner kernel is given to others:
One makes corn meal
Another fine corn flour
One makes hominy
Another corn grits

The preachers job is to get the husk off. The congregation must use the inner word according to their calling.

We are not all the same. If you are called to be a ruminant you must meditate on things day and night. Chew the cud.

eddif

 

[eddif]

If you wish an already done study I just found this.
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/meaning.html

eddif

 

[eddif]

i dont like to think about the ox walking in the meal .. yucky ...he rolls the wheel

Well just get a grip on life. LOL

If I could say
(I have no sin)
Then I could just dispense with the Law totally.
But
I reckon myself dead to sin through Christ Jesus.
I Have to confess daily sin. The treading supervisor probably has a poop scoop for emergency matters (if you see a brother overtaken in a fault).....
Also
I think bovine poop is not as nasty as buzzard vomit. I am not trying to be crude here. Sin no more has dominion over us, but sin does exist.

Here lies part of the purpose of this thread:
The law does not provide eternal righteousness (Jesus does).
The law does provide the knowledge of sin.

Some cannot face these facts. Just like you need a wheel and the thought of what may be going on just undoes your world. There is a rat pellet allowance per ton of corn meal today.

Jesus was without sin, but we reckon ourselves dead to sin.

The lawfull study of the law does not make you a saint. Belief on the work of Jesus bearing our sins in his body on the cross gets us to heaven.

My comments are not going to help this be a thread for some. I know that. Want to hide me in a blog area?

Redneck first class
eddif

 

[Edward]

Maybe it'd be easier for them to understand if you spoke on the differences of OC/NC?

 

[Corn Pop]

The Law is the knowledge of good and evil. If you do this its good, if you don't do it then its bad. Just like Adam and Eve had the knowledge of good and evil before they even eat from the tree. God said do not eat from the tree, so Adam knew if he dont eat of the tree its good hes obedient, but if he eat of the tree its bad and he disobedient. As Eve said the serpant 'we should not eat', so she had to have conscience of good and evil from the first command.

The law is the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Nathan]

A ruminant digests things that other animals can not digest. More like a snail train rather than a freight train.

Four stomachs are required.

eddif

Ok, snail trains I think I can keep up with.

A ruminant also eats things that other animals do not eat right?

 

[civilwarbuff]

If the ox is working he has a right to eat. it can be that simple

I agree; you would not starve the ox as he would not be able to work for you. I believe Paul was simply using this as an analogy that as you would care for your ox you should care for the pastor/elder/bishop/presbyter so he can dedicate himself to his work of preaching the Word. Remember, the Levites were not given an inheritance of land as their job was to care for the spiritual life of Israel. They were to receive a portion of the temple offerings to sustain themselves and their families. This would be a natural thing for early Christians to understand and accept.

 

[Nathan]

Well just get a grip on life. LOL

If I could say
(I have no sin)
Then I could just dispense with the Law totally.
But
I reckon myself dead to sin through Christ Jesus.
I Have to confess daily sin. The treading supervisor probably has a poop scoop for emergency matters (if you see a brother overtaken in a fault).....
Also
I think bovine poop is not as nasty as buzzard vomit. I am not trying to be crude here. Sin no more has dominion over us, but sin does exist.

Here lies part of the purpose of this thread:
The law does not provide eternal righteousness (Jesus does).
The law does provide the knowledge of sin.

Some cannot face these facts. Just like you need a wheel and the thought of what may be going on just undoes your world. There is a rat pellet allowance per ton of corn meal today.

Jesus was without sin, but we reckon ourselves dead to sin.

The lawfull study of the law does not make you a saint. Belief on the work of Jesus bearing our sins in his body on the cross gets us to heaven.

My comments are not going to help this be a thread for some. I know that. Want to hide me in a blog area?

Redneck first class
eddif

I don't think anyone is thinking ill of you eddif. No need to hide you anywhere.

I think the law is good - precisely because it provides the knowledge of sin.

Knowledge of sin is 'good' because it keeps us focused in the right direction.

Your comments are fine - good I think. Some might try to use the Law in a manner that is not correct, so its good to understand God's heart in it.

 

[eddif]

I don't think anyone is thinking ill of you eddif. No need to hide you anywhere.

I think the law is good - precisely because it provides the knowledge of sin.

Knowledge of sin is 'good' because it keeps us focused in the right direction.

Your comments are fine - good I think. Some might try to use the Law in a manner that is not correct, so its good to understand God's heart in it.

This is working out to some extent.

A person in slavery, and with family responsibilities just looks at all this and may say:
I can not digest this grass / theology

The many are called few are chosen comes to mind
The cares of this world and deceitfullness of riches too

A good preacher re-chews the whole thought he can not get a grip on. A good preacher knows the evil one will try and steal the word out of his life (3rd stomach).

Now who knows what happens in the 4th stomach?
With scripture please. I am trying to get others involved. I am chewing the cud with you.

God made the ox.
A good encyclopedia is about creation:
Romans 1:19-20

Parallel the ox (out of the textbook) with scripture. If you lack knowledge / wisdom, ask God.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Mississippi:
Agriculture museum
Agricultural university
Dairy farms in some places

If I look at the shadows / types God created, I learn. If I look at a Diesel engine (which I have an interest in) I may not learn as much about God.

eddif

 

[reba]

This post is a complement..
eddif Putting things in strange words re-opens some eyes.. Over the years having understood a bit of how you speak i find many of your posts to be intriguing. Often we hear the same thing said the same way... Not that i always understand you or agree but i have never read you spouting trash... or being contrary to Scripture ...

 

[eddif]

John 14:12 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Could we use creation to reveal rather than conceal?
How?


3rd stomach ?
4th stomach ?
Or
1st
2nd


eddif

 

[ezrider]

Using the law lawfully....

The law was to be written on our hearts, it was not given that we should carry it around written in stone. The promise was that he would give us a new heart; a new heart of flesh in place of the stony heart.

The law is written on our hearts and is given to the individual so that he may live by them. The law was NOT given that we may use it to judge others. When we use the law to judge others, we become a judge of the law. (James 4:11-12)

Howbeit though, the law was first given to the disobedient and unbelievers written in stone. The ox may pull the cart, and the threshers thresh the chaff from the grain, but it is the stone that grinds the grain into meal; It is the meal we eat as bread that nourishes the body.

The four stomachs serve in the same manner, separating and breaking down the grain into nourishment.

 

[eddif]

Galatians 3:23 KJV
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The temporal law period contained prophecy of the coming messiah and the writings on / about the word to be written in hearts and minds.

The law judging others is tempered by goodness and mercy.

Romans 1-2 says we leave the Judgement of god and become our own judges.

The law was temporary.
The kingdom is eternal.

We do not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from mouth of God (from memory). Food and drink were shadows of things to come.

Redneck
eddif

 

[Free]

Explain I Corinthians 9:9 KJV
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

This passage shows the ox was taught in the Law for us. The Law did not just happen to have the ox in the Law.

Many other hidden things are in the Law (called shadows of things to come). If we just make them a literary anamoly (?) have we understood chewing the cud (which I can tie in as the ox thread is opened.

So, in the first passage you gave (1 Tim. 5), Paul was using the ox as an analogy to make the point that those who "labor in preaching and teaching" are deserving of wages, even a "double honour".

Here, in 1 Cor. 9:9, he is again making the same point, using the same analogy. He does add that a reason for the ox being written about is to show that even the ox shares in the rewards of its work. His question, "Is it for oxen that God is concerned," is rhetorical. It is meant to imply that if God is concerned that even the ox share in the fruits of its labours, then so, too, should those who preach and teach. This is the context of that entire chapter.

His whole point in appealing to the ox in the Law here is seen in verse 8:

1Co 9:8 Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? (ESV)

It's on the authority of the Law, on God's authority, that he and other labourers also have rights to certain things.

 

[eddif]

So, in the first passage you gave (1 Tim. 5), Paul was using the ox as an analogy to make the point that those who "labor in preaching and teaching" are deserving of wages, even a "double honour".

Here, in 1 Cor. 9:9, he is again making the same point, using the same analogy. He does add that a reason for the ox being written about is to show that even the ox shares in the rewards of its work. His question, "Is it for oxen that God is concerned," is rhetorical. It is meant to imply that if God is concerned that even the ox share in the fruits of its labours, then so, too, should those who preach and teach. This is the context of that entire chapter.

His whole point in appealing to the ox in the Law here is seen in verse 8:

1Co 9:8 Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? (ESV)

It's on the authority of the Law, on God's authority, that he and other labourers also have rights to certain things.

We do not have to claim our rights.

You done pretty good.

The word became flesh (Jesus)
Jesus put out words about seeds and ground (not in scripture)
Jesus became a quickening spirit within us

Would you now take the things that define the ox as clean and put in words what a preacher should do.
And / But
If this is not your calling I will understand. If you think you can deal with split hooves and four stomachs, I beg you to give it your best. What you see may not be exactly what I see.

Thanks
eddif

 

[Free]

We do not have to claim our rights.

You done pretty good.

The word became flesh (Jesus)
Jesus put out words about seeds and ground (not in scripture)
Jesus became a quickening spirit within us

Would you now take the things that define the ox as clean and put in words what a preacher should do.
And / But
If this is not your calling I will understand. If you think you can deal with split hooves and four stomachs, I beg you to give it your best. What you see may not be exactly what I see.

Thanks
eddif

I don't think it goes beyond anything that I've said. Both times Paul refers to the ox, it's in reference to a worker being worthy of his wages. Nothing more.

 

[eddif]

Matthew 13:34 KJV
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

God began speaking to us from the foundation of the world. Hidden in the seed is death that life may come.

John 12;24 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jesus would have been just one without his death, being buried, resurrection, ascension, and quickening spirit sent to be in us. All this was for us when they designed the seed at creation.

The ox scripture in the OC / OT was for us. The Law was written for us (to get everyone to Christ). Seems awfully strange to us. Philip used the scriptures to get the eunuch to Jesus. We can lawfully use the hidden to draw people to Jesus today.

Just because there is not a description of the meaning of the the four stomachs in detail does not mean there isn't wisdom / knowledge hidden at the creation of the ox. The knowledge of the seed had a time lag before revelation. The Mississipin Agriculture Museum has a rendition of the windowed stomachs (treasures of the Gentiles IMHO). When you look at those stomachs Jewish midrash can really start. Midrash without the Holy Spirit is not complete, but I Corinthians 9:9 is a completed Jew writing.

I Corinthians 9:9 area says it was for us (the us being NT folks). Are we not NT / NC folks?

Mississippi redneck with a smart phone. Got to be something wrong with that.
eddif

 

[Edward]

We do not have to claim our rights.

We have to receive it. Recently I learned that accepting and receiving are Not the same thing. Many accept Jesus, but not as many receive Him.