Was Jesus a false prophet?

[DivineNames]

The major prophecy given by Jesus in the Bible is that he would return and judge the world, and that this would happen in the lifetime of some of his immediate followers. I think it obvious that Jesus didn't return at that time, so Jesus gave a false prophecy. The main eschatological message of the gospels is provided in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. In the chapters cited, Jesus is talking to his disciples, revealing to them the various events that will precede the coming of the "Son of Man". The conversation starts when Jesus predicts the destruction of the Second Temple, the very temple that Jesus and his disciples were looking at.

Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." (Matthew 24:1-2 NIV)

The Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Second Temple in 70 CE. As this event was supposedly one of the signs that the Son of Man was about to come, it places all the events described in Matthew 24 etc. in the 1st century. If Jesus were going to come back, then he should have come back in that time period. The destruction of the Second Temple is mentioned as part of the narrative of predicted events-

So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel (Matthew 24:15 NIV)

When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. (Luke 21:20 NIV)

Jesus starts the conversation by predicting the destruction of the Second Temple, then the disciples ask, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24:3 NIV). So the disciples ask about it, Jesus includes the destruction of the Second Temple as part of the narrative, and he gives a time frame in which all of the events will occur, (Matthew 24:34).

About the time of the destruction of the Second Temple are the, "days of vengeance"-

then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened... Immediately after the distress of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light... At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24:16-22, 29-31 NIV)

So you have the, "days of vengeance", signs in the sun, moon and stars, and then the coming of the Son of Man. These events are all following on from one another. We know that they would have to happen in the 1st century, because one of the events, the destruction of the Second Temple, happened in 70 CE. However, when were these events supposed to happen according to Jesus? What time frame did he give?

I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. (Matthew 24:34 NIV)

Remember that all these things will happen before the people now living have all died. (Matthew 24:34 GNT)

(Also- Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32)

Jesus claimed that all of the events would happen within the lifetime of some of his immediate followers. These would be 1st century events, that is when Jesus was supposed to return.

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. (Matthew 16:27-28 NIV)

(Also- Mark 8:38-9:1 and Luke 9:26-27)

And this seems to be Paul's understanding-

Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 NIV)

So perhaps there is some concern about the people who have died before the Lord has come. Paul explains that the dead will, "rise first", and then WE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE AND ARE LEFT TILL THE COMING OF THE LORD will be caught up together with them, in the clouds, to meet the Lord. Some of the Christians of that time would live to see the Lord return, that appears to be the expectation. And of course that is what they expected, because that is what Jesus had promised them.

I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:50-53 NIV)

So, "we will not all sleep", we will not all have died before the coming of the Lord, but both the dead Christians, and the living Christians, will be changed and given a new kind of body. Again, the expectation is that some of the Christians of that time would live to see the Lord return.

Immediately after the distress of those days... the stars will fall from the sky (Matthew 24:29 NIV) (Also- Mark 13:25)

If stars were to genuinely, "fall from the sky", life on earth would be completely destroyed. There would be no, "nations of the earth", to witness the coming of the Son of Man. Someone such as Matthew, ignorant of basic facts of astronomy, may not have realized this.

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23 NIV)

Matthew 10:17-23 describes the persecution of Christians. (Compare with Matthew 24:9-14 / Mark 13:9-13 / Luke 21:12-19.)

"you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes"

This clearly shows that the "Son of Man" will come within the lifetime of those Christians going from city to city to avoid persecution, so all the events described in Matthew 24 etc. are close together in time, they will be witnessed by one generation, within the lifetime of some members of a particular generation.

And think about it, in Israel today, are Christians really going to be flogged in the synagogues? (Mark 13:9 NIV) Are Christians really going to flee from city to city?

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:14 NIV)

That the gospel would be preached in the "whole world" within the lifetime of some of the immediate followers of Jesus is obviously an unrealistic expectation. However, Paul may have believed that this had actually happened-

This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven (Colossians 1:23 NIV)

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18 NIV)

Jesus gave a warning, that in the time before the coming of the Son of Man, people would turn away from the faith, and that "false Christs and false prophets will appear", This has a similarity with what is being said in 1 John 2:18-26 and 1 John 4:1-3. The author doesn't mention, "false Christs", but does talk of people who "went out" from the faith, and he talks about false prophets. The 1 John verses also have a similarity to Paul's comment- Acts 20:29-30.

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son (Matthew 24:36 NIV)

No one knows the, "day or hour", not even Jesus does. As it happens, Jesus doesn't try to predict the day or hour, but Jesus does predict that it will happen in the lifetime of some of his immediate followers. It never happened.

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:8-9 NIV)

This doesn't avoid the problem. If with the Lord, "a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day", it doesn't change the fact that to fulfill the prophecy the "Son of Man" has to turn up in the lifetime of some of the immediate followers. It is now impossible for that to happen. Jesus didn't keep his promise.

 

[DivineNames]

Matthew 24:34 - What The Scholars Say
http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/ ... 024-34.htm




Sixteen Bible Commentaries: genea.


(1) ...verse 34 solemnly promises that Jesus will return while some of his contemporaries are still alive (a reprise of 16:28).... The gospel testimony provides strong support for this view: Jesus did not know all things.

(2) (This generation) can only with the greatest of difficulty be made to mean anything other than the generation living when Jesus spoke.

(3) "This generation" clearly designates the contemporaries of Jesus.

(4) The statement in verse 34 is a difficult one. If generation is to be taken in this strict sense, then "all these things" must be limited to the events culminating in A.D. 70.... The majority of the best scholars today insist that generation be taken in its strictest sense.

(5) Jesus was quite certain that they would happen within the then living generation.

(6) [Matthew] probably believed, however, that the end could come before all of Jesus' hearers had died.

(7) Further, he [Jesus] insists that his words are infallible, and that they are more certain than the material universe itself....

(8) This verse recalls 16.28, and affirms that some of the disciples would live to see the Parousia. This would presuppose a relatively early date for the event.... Was Jesus in error in his prediction of the nearness of the end?

(9) In the Old Testament a generation was reckoned as forty years. This is the natural way to take verse 34.... He plainly stated in verse 34 that those events would take place in that generation.... One may, of course, accuse Jesus of hopeless confusion.... It is impossible to escape the conclusion that Jesus, as Man, expected the end within the lifetime of his contemporaries.

(10) The hard fact still remains that if Jesus spoke the sayings of St. Mark xiii and St. Matthew xxiv... he misjudged the extent of his own knowledge and uttered a definite prediction which was not fulfilled.

(11) The Synoptists fell into the contradiction... of making Jesus declare at one moment that He did not know the time of the glorious Advent, and at another that it would infallibly happen within that generation.

(12) The affirmation that "all these things" will happen in this generation is clear, and there is no reason to alter the meaning of the word generation from its usual sense except a fear that the Scriptures may be in error if it is not so altered.

(13) Indeed, the fulfillment will take place before this present generation has passed away.

(14) Did Jesus expect the end within the lifetime of those who heard him speak? It seems quite certain that the early church so understood him.

(15) Matthew made it clear that some of the first disciples would live to see the Parousia.

(16) ... v. 34; there are those now alive, who shall see Jerusalem destroyed.



Nine Christian Scholars & Authors: genea & Matthew 24:34.


(1) Rev. Chuck Smith: As a rule, a generation in the Bible lasts 40 years.

(2) Dr. David Friedrich Strauss: ...the word genea... was put to the torture....

(3) George Murry: If the saying relates to the parousia, it sets the end time within the bounds of the first generation church. The phrase "this generation" should cause no difficulty for interpreters... It always signifies his [Jesus'] contemporaries.

(4) Dr. Albert Schweitzer: And He [Jesus] was to come, moreover, within the lifetime of the generation to which He had proclaimed the nearness of the Kingdom of God.

(5) Gary DeMar: No future generation of Jews is meant here.

(6) Rev. Stuart Russell: Next, our Lord sums up with an affirmation calculated to remove every vestige of doubt or uncertainty, "Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." One would reasonably suppose that after a note of time so clear and express there could not be room for controversy. Our Lord Himself has settled the question. Ninety-nine persons in every hundred would undoubtedly understand His words as meaning that the predicted catastrophe would fall within the lifetime of the existing generation. Not that all would live to witness it, but that most or many would. There can be no question that this would be the interpretation which the disciples would place upon the words.... His coming... would come to pass before the existing generation had wholly passed away, and within the limits of their own lifetime.

(7) Edward Gibbon: [Members of the primitive church] were obliged to expect the second and glorious coming of the Son of Man in the clouds before that generation was totally extinguished which had beheld his humble condition upon the earth.

(8) Rev. Milton Terry: The words immediately preceding them show the absurdity of applying them to another generation than that of the apostles: "When ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors." The teaching of Jesus was emphatic beyond all rational question that that generation should not pass away before all those things of which they inquired should be fulfilled.

(9) Dr. William Lane Craig: Two generations past the time of Jesus lands you in the 2nd Century.



Thirteen Scholars: The "Race" Argument.


(1) Douglas Hare: Some have argued, for example, that "this generation" refers not to Jesus' contemporaries but to the Jewish nation or to the church. The linguistic evidence in favor of such proposals is not impressive.

(2) Alan Hugh M'Neile: "This generation" cannot mean the Jews as a people, believers in Christ, or the future generation that will experience these things. It must be the particular generation of Jews to whom, or of whom, the words were spoken.... It is impossible to escape the conclusion that Jesus, as Man, expected the End within the lifetime of His contemporaries.

(3) Clifton Allen: The meaning of "this generation" is much disputed. Efforts like those of Jerome, to make it mean the Jewish race, or of Origen and Chrysostom, to refer it to all Christians, are arbitrary, and are to be rejected. "This generation" refers to the contemporaries of Jesus.

(4) Heinrich Meyer: Ver. 34. Declaration to the effect that all this is to take place before the generation then living should pass away. (It is) well-nigh absurd (the) manner in which it has been attempted to force into the word genea such meaning as: The Creation, The Human Race, The Jewish Nation, The Class of Men Consisting of My Believers, The Generation of the Elect Now in Question, The Future Generation Which is to Witness Those Events... (The Second Coming) is to occur during the lifetime of the generation then existing.

(5) R.T. France: (Genea) has been taken to mean The Jewish Race, or Unbelieving Judaism. It is unlikely that such an improbable meaning for the noun would have been suggested at all without the constraint of apologetic embarrassment...! Jesus was wrong.

(6) Floyd Filson: The end... will come within a generation. Attempts to translate genea as: Human Race, Jewish Race are misguided; the word refers to the generation living when Jesus spoke.

(7) P. Davids, F.F. Bruce, M. Brauch: This has been regarded as a hard saying.... Plainly the idea that the human race is meant cannot be entertained; every description of (the end of the world) implies that human beings will be around to witness it.... Nor is there much more to be said for the idea the Jewish race is meant; there is no hint anywhere in the New Testament that the Jewish race will cease to exist before the end of the world. In any case, what point would there be in such a vague prediction? It would be as much as to say, "At some time in the indefinite future all these things will take place." Jesus' hearers could have understood him to mean only that "all these things" would take place within their generation.... The phrase always means the generation now living.

(8) Bible Commentary: ...seems to require us here to translate the word genea as meaning "generation," not, as it is sometimes rendered, race or people. (Generation) is the usual meaning.

(9) Rev. Patrick Fairbairn: It has been maintained by some that... our Lord identified generation with the Jewish race.... But that is a very forced explanation; and not a single example can be produced of an entirely similar use of the word. Whatever difficulties may hang around the interpretation of that part of Christ's discourse, it is impossible to understand by "the generation that was not to pass away" anything but the existing race of men living at the time when the word was spoken.

(10) Bruce Chilton: Some have sought to get around the force of (Mt. 24:34) by saying that the word generation here really means race, and that Jesus was simply saying that the Jewish race would not die out until all these things took place. Is that true? I challenge you: Get out your concordance and look up every New Testament occurrence of the word generation, and see if it ever means "race" in any other context.... Not one of these references is speaking of the entire Jewish race over thousands of years; all use the word in its normal sense of the sum total of those living at the same time. It always refers to contemporaries. In fact, those who say it means "race" tend to acknowledge this fact, but explain that the word suddenly changes its meaning when Jesus uses it in Matthew 24! We can smile at such a transparent error ....

(11) Dr. Albert Schweitzer: These words (Mt. 24:34) must be strained into meaning, not that generation, but the Jewish people. Thus by exegetical art they are saved forever, for the Jewish race will never die out.

(12) Rev. Milton Terry: The various meanings which, under the pressure of a dogmatic (crisis), have been put upon the phrase "this generation" must appear in the highest degree absurd to an unbiased critic. It has been explained (away) as meaning: The Human Race [Jerome], The Jewish Race [Dorner], The Race of Christian Believers [Chrysostom].

(13) Rev. Stuart Russell: It has been contended by many that in (Mt 24:34) the word genea should be rendered "race" or "nation...." But we think... without any shadow of doubt that the expression "this generation" so often employed by our Lord, always refers solely and exclusively to His contemporaries, the Jewish people of His own period.

 

[Solo]

When Jesus returns, we who have believed will all know exactly what he meant. :D

 

[Free]

So, DivineNames, the conclusion is that you really have no argument afterall.

 

[DivineNames]

So, DivineNames, the conclusion is that you really have no argument afterall.

Well, it actually seems the Christians don't have any argument!

:D

The problem this creates, is that Jesus looks like a doomsday cult leader and false prophet.

Free, I have a question for you-

If you follow somone you know to be a false prophet, or that you could/should reasonably know to be a false prophet, is that a wicked thing to do? Would God punish people for that?

 

[DivineNames]

When Jesus returns, we who have believed will all know exactly what he meant. :D

We already know what he meant. Its very clear. Jesus promised to return within the lifetime of some of his immediate followers.


It's strange... I can understand the meaning of what Jesus is saying, and yet it seems you can't understand Jesus... and your the one with the Holy Spirit to help you!

 

[Free]

So, DivineNames, the conclusion is that you really have no argument afterall.

Well, it actually seems the Christians don't have any argument!

:D

The problem this creates, is that Jesus looks like a doomsday cult leader and false prophet.

Free, I have a question for you-

If you follow somone you know to be a false prophet, or that you could/should reasonably know to be a false prophet, is that a wicked thing to do? Would God punish people for that?

It would seem you missed my point. You argue that certain prophesies didn't come true, yet you also show that there are many possible interpretations of these prophesies. All you have shown is the difficulty in interpreting certain parts of Holy Scripture, nothing more.

Plus you ignore the fact that Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Temple, which occurred about 40 years after his death.

 

[Decypher]

Plus you ignore the fact that Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Temple, which occurred about 40 years after his death.

It is a "fact" is it?

Can you prove the synoptic gospels were written before the event?

 

[antitox]

The disciples asked two things:

1. When will this be (the temple coming down)
2. What will be the sign of his coming

Jesus addressed both of these things and it runs together unless you look closely at what he is saying. Even the prophets seem to write in a way that mixes the current situation with the prophetic to come in their address.

 

[DivineNames]

The disciples asked two things:

1. When will this be (the temple coming down)
2. What will be the sign of his coming

Jesus addressed both of these things and it runs together unless you look closely at what he is saying. Even the prophets seem to write in a way that mixes the current situation with the prophetic to come in their address.

And? Could you expand on your argument.

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. (Matthew 16:27-28 NIV)

(Also- Mark 8:38-9:1 and Luke 9:26-27)

 

[antitox]

The disciples asked two things:

1. When will this be (the temple coming down)
2. What will be the sign of his coming

Jesus addressed both of these things and it runs together unless you look closely at what he is saying. Even the prophets seem to write in a way that mixes the current situation with the prophetic to come in their address.

And? Could you expand on your argument.

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. (Matthew 16:27-28 NIV)

(Also- Mark 8:38-9:1 and Luke 9:26-27)

You ask, and I'll answer one thing at a time cause I don't have time to post an extensive breakout of this.

 

[Scott]

Here is my take on Matthew 24. We all can agree that all the prophecies did not & have not all come true together since Christ was here on earth, correct?

This generation, I believe is refering to the generation in which these prophecies all become true together will not have passed. In other words when the dominos start to fall, all these prophecies will occur in the lifetime of that generation in which they started.

Furthermore, proof Christ is not referring to that present generation to whom He was speaking is found in Matthew 21:42-43.

Matthew 24:22 denotes a very gloomy period for mankind. I think its safe to say that those days have not happened yet, certainly not in 70 A.D. either. The key to understanding Christ's prophecy is to understand all those things must happen, not just one.

 

[Judy]

Here is my take on Matthew 24. We all can agree that all the prophecies did not & have not all come true together since Christ was here on earth, correct?

This generation, I believe is refering to the generation in which these prophecies all become true together will not have passed. In other words when the dominos start to fall, all these prophecies will occur in the lifetime of that generation in which they started.

Furthermore, proof Christ is not referring to that present generation to whom He was speaking is found in Matthew 21:42-43.

Matthew 24:22 denotes a very gloomy period for mankind. I think its safe to say that those days have not happened yet, certainly not in 70 A.D. either. The key to understanding Christ's prophecy is to understand all those things must happen, not just one.

I totally agree with what Scott has posted. :wink:

 

[antitox]

Quote:
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. (Matthew 16:27-28 NIV)

(Also- Mark 8:38-9:1 and Luke 9:26-27)

DN, twould not be fair for me not to address what you posted in your reply to me, even though it isn't the issue I referred to in my post:

The key part of that statement Jesus made is:

"the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." This does not refer to coming back with the holy angels. It refers to his kingdom which occurred on Pentecost. Here is a similar statement Jesus made:

(Luke 17:20-21) "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;..nor will they say 'Lo,here it is!' or 'There!' for behold the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

(Luke 9:27) "But I tell you truly there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."


The other scripture says:

(Mk 8:38) "And he said to them,"There are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power."

Pentecost is when it came with power.

(Acts 1:8) "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria and to teh end of the earth."

If I delay on stuff like this it's cause it takes me along time to type. That's why my answers are normally quite short.

 

[Lewis]

I agree with Scott also.

 

[DivineNames]

This generation, I believe is refering to the generation in which these prophecies all become true together will not have passed. In other words when the dominos start to fall, all these prophecies will occur in the lifetime of that generation in which they started.

Which still puts it in the first century, as that is when 1 of the events occurred, the destruction of the Second Temple. Also, if these events are yet to happen, do you really think that Christians are going to get persecuted in Israel? Are they going to be flogged? The description of events strongly suggests the first century.

Furthermore, proof Christ is not referring to that present generation to whom He was speaking is found in Matthew 21:42-43.

How is that proof?

The key to understanding Christ's prophecy is to understand all those things must happen, not just one.

How do you explain Matthew 16:27-28 ? "Some who are standing here" ?

 

[DivineNames]

Even the prophets seem to write in a way that mixes the current situation with the prophetic to come in their address.

Perhaps you have some reasonable examples, or perhaps you are merely thinking of the Christian use of the Old Testament, where material is taken way out of context.

 

[Kefka]

Ahh, Jesus. The Son of God. He who rose again. Read the bible, and you'll notice that he spoke in riddles and parables quite often, no? Often his disciples didn't know what he was talking about, yet you believe you can understand what he's saying? You don't think there's any possible way that you might be misunderstanding what he said?

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

Well, I've seen it all now, I guess I gotta go!

 

[DivineNames]

Furthermore, proof Christ is not referring to that present generation to whom He was speaking is found in Matthew 21:42-43.

In the parables given, Jesus regards the chief priests and Pharisees as hypocrites and disobedient to God. In the first parable, (Matthew 21:28-31), he claims that the, "publicans and the harlots", will go into the kingdom of God before them. This all seems to be about who would have a place in the kingdom of God, which is dependent on doing the will of God. There may also be an element of, "branches being broken off", and others being grafted onto the tree, as Paul put it, (in Romans 11). But anyway, this does not look relevant to when the Son of Man is going to come. It is not exactly "proof", as you claim.