Weak Arguments Arminians Use

[Doulos Iesou]

Introduction:

Now I would like to begin by saying that I am most certainly not a Calvinist, nor do I enjoy being distinguished as an Arminian. Why? While if I came into a theological discussion with an Arminian, much of what we would say would be indistinguishable. Yet, when one adheres to a theological distinction such as an "Arminian," they then take on a whole lot bunch of baggage. They are then liable to such allegations, "you follow Arminius.. I follow Christ," as some misguided and self-righteous people would say, as this is most certainly not the case.

The reason why I do not enjoy the theological distinction of "Arminianism," is because in my mind it locks the debate into it's 17th Century context (though of course Calvin and Arminius never debated). Most importantly though, it opens me up to many of the poor arguments that I found coming from Arminians. Indeed one of the reasons I became a Calvinist soon after coming to Christ, is because I could not find consistent exegesis from many Arminians and found the same lame arguments to try and force their position.

Here is an example in John 3:16.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Jn 3:16(NASB)

SOOO!

The first problem that arises, is found in the third word "so." How many have heard preachers proclaim, "For God SOOOO loved the world!" As if the word "so" was used in a way a teenage couple would in a moment of great affection, "I love you SOOO much!"

This word "so" is the Greek word οὕτως and it means, "in this way," or, "or in this manner." It is simply saying this, "For God loved the world in this way," What way did he love the world? "That he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish but will have eternal life."

WORLD!!!

The next example is the word "world," instead of emphasizing the word "so," in their preaching some of them (mainly in an attempt to refute Calvinism) will proclaim, "For God so loved the WORLD, he didn't just love the elect!!"

Many Calvinists will then rightly object saying that the Greek word κόσμος (Kosmos) has a semantic range that doesn't just mean "all men without exception." They will look to the uses of the Greek word throughout the gospel of John and find the majority of cases referring to the "fallen human system." In essence saying that God loved that which was so contrary to him, fallen humanity that had rebelled and was God's enemy.

My point is to not now defeat the Calvinist argument, but to rather point out that simply claim that the word "world" MUST mean, "all people without exception," and in this instance it is special pleading. The Calvinist will point this out rather quickly and make it look like the Arminian has no leg to stand on.

WHOSOEVER!!

Perhaps one of the most aggravating examples and maybe the most common is the misuse of the word "whosoever" (as found in the KJV), their preaching goes like this: "That WHOSOEVER! WHOSOEVER! WHOSOEVER!" This actually quoted from Ed Young's irreverent bashing of Calvinists.

This is used by many Arminians that the word "whosoever" stands on it's own and use it referring to the ability of everyone to believe on Jesus.

This has many obvious issues..

The Greek word here is πᾶς is an adjective that is perhaps better translated "everyone," and it modifies the Substantival Participle πιστεύων (who believes). Saying that, "everyone who believes shall not perish," it is not saying everyone CAN or has the ability to believe, but simply everyone that is believing in Jesus shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Such as, if I were to put it in another sentence: "Whosoever is 6 feet tall may ride this roller coaster." We find that this construction is inherently limiting, limiting of course to a certain distinction of people and in John 3:16 it is only those who believe who will have eternal life.

Therefore, we must go other places to have the debate if God has give every man the ability to believe, or is that just for the elect. I of course have a strong opinion on the matter, but this is not the time to voice this.

Conclusion:

Why do I so vehemently critic my fellow peers and those whom I mostly agree with? It is because of posters like the one who came on this forum earlier this week, who had been so confused by the Arminianism and Calvinism debate (among others) that he had forsaken his faith in Jesus. Calvinism to him seemed to him the most accurate representation of Scripture, and I believe that is largely because he was probably fed poor arguments like the ones I referenced here to try and debunk Calvinism.

Calvinism, with it's doctrine of predestination and reprobation, that men were elected from the foundation of the world to salvation not based off of any foreseen moral merit or really anything in them, and God then also chose to pass over some of the foreseen fallen humanity to be abandoned to the result of their sin.. eternal hell. Calvinism then, finally proved to be too big of a pill to swallow for our dear brother..

Brothers and sisters who do a great disservice not only to each other, but to others listening when we twist the Word of God to support our own doctrines. When we use demonstrably faulty and fallacious arguments to support our "Sacred Cows." We need to be willing to critic our own position as ardently as we would our opponents and even grant where they have valid objections. We need to discourse these issues differently than the rest of the world. Christian forums shouldn't be the most heavily moderated forums on the internet, but should be the most delightful to moderate on the web.

Let's honor those we discuss with and those who are listening by being as clear, thorough and faithful to Scripture as possible. For I affirm the infallibility of Scripture, and it is wholly consistent with itself (contrary to the opinion of many) and the better we can show it's harmony, the more that faith will increase in those who hear.

Blessings in Christ,
Servant of Jesus

 

[Vaccine]

...Brothers and sisters who do a great disservice not only to each other, but to others listening when we twist the Word of God to support our own doctrines. When we use demonstrably faulty and fallacious arguments to support our "Sacred Cows." We need to be willing to critic our own position as ardently as we would our opponents and even grant where they have valid objections. We need to discourse these issues differently than the rest of the world. Christian forums shouldn't be the most heavily moderated forums on the internet, but should be the most delightful to moderate on the web.

Let's honor those we discuss with and those who are listening by being as clear, thorough and faithful to Scripture as possible. For I affirm the infallibility of Scripture, and it is wholly consistent with itself (contrary to the opinion of many) and the better we can show it's harmony, the more that faith will increase in those who hear.

Well said.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Well said.

Thank you for your encouragement, be blessed this weekend

 

[P31Woman]

I am Southern Baptist. I think it's wrong to make a big deal over this issue. This is an old article and Paige is no longer the president of our convention. We have don't get hung up on this issue in my Church. Most people in the Southern Baptist Church will be quick to agree with two points of Calvanism... the T and P..the other three some agree with and some don't. To me it's not a big deal.


Patterson: Calvinism OK but wrong
___SPRINGDALE, Ark. (BP)--Five-point Calvinists lack scriptural justification for their beliefs but will not be run out of the Southern Baptist Convention, SBC President Paige Patterson told Arkansas pastors Nov. 8.
___Patterson, president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., and Paul Pressler of Houston--the two men most often credited with masterminding

PAIGE PATTERSON

JOHN CALVIN
the SBC's sharp turn to the right since 1979--spoke at the annual pastors' conference preceding the Arkansas Baptist Convention.
___After dealing with the issues of church discipline, expository preaching and spiritual awakening, Patterson was asked about the influence of Calvinism within the SBC.
___Calvinism is a comprehensive theological system attributed to the 16th century reformer John Calvin. It often is described around five primary points of belief, three of which most Southern Baptists easily adhere to but two of which are extremely controversial. The contested doctrines are that the atonement bought by Christ on the cross is limited in scope only to those God chose for salvation before the foundation of the world (implying that God predestined some people to damnation before they ever were born) and that the grace of God is so irresistible that all the elect eventually will be drawn to accept it.
___Having close friends who are five-point Calvinists, Patterson said, he respects their commitment to the Bible as the word of God and their belief in the reality of sin.
___Pressed by another listener as to whether those who hold to Calvinism are to be accepted as part of the convention, Patterson replied that the Baptist Faith & Message is the SBC's agreed-upon, adopted statement of faith.
___"There's plenty of room under the umbrella for anyone who is anything from a one- to five-point Calvinist," Patterson said, stipulating that any Southern Baptist would have to agree upon the doctrine known as perseverance of the saints or "once saved, always saved."
___"There's room for a two- or three-pointer like me, provided he can explain what is meant by two and three," Patterson said. "There's room for four- and five-pointers whom I believe lack scriptural justification for that, but I'm certainly not in favor of running them out."
___Patterson said his only caution to Baptist Calvinists lies in their expression of evangelism and missions. "Any person who holds to five-point Calvinism will never be in any danger in this convention as long as he does not allow it to lead him to unscriptural conclusions--such as we ought not to give invitations and things like that. When he gets to that point, either implicitly or explicitly, it has now become a hindrance to evangelism and missions."
___Patterson added that he found no scriptural support for the doctrines of irresistible grace or limited atonement as espoused by Calvinists. "I'm easy to convince. I stand under the word (of God). Bring me the Bible and show me where it says grace is irresistible and if you're the elect God's going to pursue you like the hound of hell."
___The Bible actually advocates "the exact opposite" of a belief in limited atonement, he asserted. "It says he died not only for our sins, but also the sins of the whole world. That is an unlimited atonement if I've ever read anything at all."

 

[jasoncran]

talk about a misunderstanding. its limited only in that not all will accept it.

"for straight and narrow is the way and few be there that find it" Jesus' words not mine. and No Im not an Calvinist, nor believe in the perserverance of the saints.