[_ Old Earth _] Were Adam and Eve apes?

[Dave Slayer]

Were Adam and Eve apes?

 

[lordkalvan]

Adam and Eve are allegorical figures in the biblical morality tale of creation and the fall of humanity from grace. As such, they are most certainly and correctly depicted as humans beings.

 

[Dave Slayer]

Adam and Eve are allegorical figures in the biblical morality tale of creation and the fall of humanity from grace. As such, they are most certainly and correctly depicted as humans beings.

So Adam and Eve were not real people? That's odd. Genesis records the geneologies from Adam all the to Noah and up to Abraham, and so on. At what point do you determine who is allegrorical and who's not? Was Noah just allegorical? Was Moses just a figurative guy? Were the ten commandments not real but allegorical? Perhaps I am just allegorical, I am not really here.

Also, Adam was said to have named all the animals. If Adam wasn't a real person, then what was the allegorical purpose of God bringing animals to Adam to name? If Adam and Eve were allegorical, why does the Bible list how long they lived?

 

[Godbless]

Were Adam and Eve apes?

Did they have belly buttons?

 

[Dave Slayer]

Were Adam and Eve apes?

Did they have belly buttons?

Not sure how this relates, but I don't know. I would assume not because neither Adam or Eve were connected to an umbilical cord in the womb. They were never in a womb. The reason why we have belly buttons is because the umbilical cord is cut and the skin is tied to fill in the hole. Adam and Eve more than likely did not have this happen.

 

[lordkalvan]

Adam and Eve are allegorical figures in the biblical morality tale of creation and the fall of humanity from grace. As such, they are most certainly and correctly depicted as humans beings.

So Adam and Eve were not real people?

No.

That's odd. Genesis records the geneologies from Adam all the to Noah and up to Abraham, and so on.

In the 12th Century in The History of the Kings of Britain Geoffrey of Monmouth provided an historical account of the ancestors of the Kings of England all the way back to Brutus, a descendant of the Prince Aeneas who escaped the sack of Troy. Do you suppose this genealogy is correct and accurate just because it is written down?

At what point do you determine who is allegrorical and who's not?

When there is any evidence to support the contrary viewpoint. The default position cannot be that Adam and Eve were real persons unless the contrary can be demonstrated.

Was Noah just allegorical?

As described in Genesis, yes.

Was Moses just a figurative guy?

Possibly. As many of the events supposedly occurring during his life lack any evidence to support them, the biblical Moses is, like Noah, mostly a fiction.

Were the ten commandments not real but allegorical?

The ten commandments exist in written form in the Bible; they are not allegorical. The manner of their formulation is another matter, however.

Perhaps I am just allegorical, I am not really here.

There is some evidence for your existence in the fact of your posts, although you may not be the person named and described in your profile; so to this extent some of your aspects may indeed be allegorical.

Also, Adam was said to have named all the animals. If Adam wasn't a real person, then what was the allegorical purpose of God bringing animals to Adam to name?

I don't understand the sense of your question. If the Egyptian creation myth of the Ennead is not real, how did Egyptian society and the concept of kingship emerge?The purpose of the allegory lies in the minds of those writing it. We might ask them why didn't God tell Adam what the names of the animals should be? Why should Adam have to name them?

If Adam and Eve were allegorical, why does the Bible list how long they lived?

Why do Sumerian records tell us that the pre-dynastic King Alulim reigned for 28,800 years?

 

[Dave Slayer]

Dear lordkalvan, my friend Fred had these questions. May I please have your thoughts on them? Thanks and God Bless!

Was Jesus a real person? Paul writes in Romans 5 that humanity is sinners because of Adam's sin. Christ died to pay the penalty for Adam's sin. How can an unreal, allegorical person transmit sin to the whole of the human race? Why would Jesus be sent from God to die for an allegory?

 

[Guest]

The default position cannot be that Adam and Eve were real persons unless the contrary can be demonstrated.

All people progress from ignorance to knowledge to a position. All knowledge is situated. Therefore, no universal default position can exist.

 

[lordkalvan]

Dear lordkalvan, my friend Fred had these questions. May I please have your thoughts on them? Thanks and God Bless!

Was Jesus a real person?

In terms of the evidence available, there is no certainty. In my own opinion, I think the answer is probably, although whether exactly as described in the gospels is another matter.

Paul writes in Romans 5 that humanity is sinners because of Adam's sin.

Paul had his own agenda and cultural reasons for writing in the terms he did. Insofar as humanity sins, it does so through the failings, weaknesses and culpabilities of its individual members, not because of a mythical sin by a legendary man and woman who can be paraded as scapegoats for individual failings which are our own responsibility.

Christ died to pay the penalty for Adam's sin.

Christ died for several reasons. If he died at all to atone for sin, he died to atone for the sins of humanity, not for the single sin of the aforesaid scapegoat.

How can an unreal, allegorical person transmit sin to the whole of the human race?

He didn't; insofar as responsibility should be assigned, humanity is responsible for itself and for its own sins.

Why would Jesus be sent from God to die for an allegory?

In the scenario posed, he was sent to die for the sins of humanity as a whole.

I hope this clarifies my position.

 

[Dave Slayer]

Thanks lordkalvan. I sent your responses to Fred and I will post them once I receive his reply.

 

[Dave Slayer]

Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person?

Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person? Some believe Adam and Eve were not real, but allegorical. Also, who were the first human beings that are real according to scripture? If they weren't Adam and Eve, then who were they?

 

[John]

Re: Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person?

Adam and Eve were the first humans on this earth.

 

[Barbarian]

Re: Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person?

Yes, Adam and Eve were real people. Perhaps not our own species, but people, nontheless.

 

[John]

Re: Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person?

Yes, Adam and Eve were real people. Perhaps not our own species, but people, nontheless.

Where is the line when we talk about "people" was the alleged missing link "Lucy" a person?

 

[Barbarian]

Re: Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person?

Where is the line when we talk about "people" was the alleged missing link "Lucy" a person?

My guess is that it was somewhere close to the basal Homo, perhaps H. ergaster. But does it matter? The difference between them and us is of no concern to God. If we never progressed beyond that point, He would still love us.

 

[John]

Re: Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person?

But then we have another problem. At what point did we have souls? If we came about from means of evolution then did Adams father have a soul?

On another note had there been any other soul filled man before Adam it would violate Gods word.

 

[freeway]

Re: Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person?

Yes, Adam and Eve were real people. Perhaps not our own species, but people, nontheless.

I think we've been over this before, if Adam and Eve where just "monkey people or sub human' in the long millions of years process to become man.. then when did they become human enough to sin and cause the fall of man.. did they live on and change right before their very own eyes, but that would not be right. is not evolution all about death and then through death new DNA is added to re-adjust to better fit the environment.

So Yes Adam and Eve where the first humans.. :yes

 

[lordkalvan]

Re: Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person?

Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person? Some believe Adam and Eve were not real, but allegorical. Also, who were the first human beings that are real according to scripture? If they weren't Adam and Eve, then who were they?

I think it's necessary to distinguish between the Old and New Testaments. Much of the New Testament is nearly contemporaneous with the persons it is describing; much of the Old Testament isn't. Where the the Old Testament refers to events contemporaneous or nearly contemporaneous with the date of its writing, there can be more confidence that the individuals described existed, though not necessarily exactly as described. The more distant in time the persons referred to in the Old Testament are from the date of its writing, the more likely it is that either they are wholly allegorical or that much of what is recorded about their experiences is allegorical. In all cases, however, evidence can support or detract from various parts of the biblical story.

 

[lovely]

Re: Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person?

We have a record of Christ's geneology in the Old Testament that extends to Adam.

 

[Crying Rock]

Re: Who was the first non-allegorical Biblical person?

Where is the line when we talk about "people" was the alleged missing link "Lucy" a person?

My guess is that it was somewhere close to the basal Homo, perhaps H. ergaster. But does it matter? The difference between them and us is of no concern to God. If we never progressed beyond that point, He would still love us.

Agreed.