We're grafted into Christ, not Israel!

[precepts]

Christ is the branch we're grafted into, not Israel!

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name [is] The BRANCH ; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Jhn 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.

Sgs 4:12 A garden inclosed [is] my sister, [my] spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

Sgs 4:16 Awake, O north wind; and come, thou south; blow upon my garden, [that] the spices thereof may flow out. Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits.

Sgs 5:1 I am come into my garden, my sister, [my] spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.

Sgs 6:2 My beloved is gone down into his garden, to the beds of spices, to feed in the gardens, and to gather lilies.

Sgs 6:11 I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits of the valley, [and] to see whether the vine flourished, [and] the pomegranates budded.

We are grafted into Christ the vine, the branch that was planted post-Babylon! Ezekiel 17!

 

[JMJ]

Christ is the branch we're grafted into, not Israel!

We are grafted into Christ the vine, the branch that was planted post-Babylon! Ezekiel 17!

Yes, the remaining Remnant of Israel will join the Christian Church before Jesus returns at His Second Coming.

Many of the Remnant of Israel, including the Apostles Peter, James, and John, already joined the Christian Church 2000 years ago.

 

[precepts]

Yes, the remaining Remnant of Israel will join the Christian Church before Jesus returns at His Second Coming.

Your will be done!

Many of the Remnant of Israel, including the Apostles Peter, James, and John, already joined the Christian Church 2000 years ago.

That''s before or after the gentiles?

 

[JMJ]

That''s before or after the gentiles?

I believe we are living in the times of the Gentiles right now which is also known as the thousand years' reign of Jesus Christ. It is drawing to its close/fulfillment. I believe this is so because Israel became a nation again in 1948.

Luke 21:24 (NIV)
24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

This discussion if continued, should be moved to the End Times Forum. Two of my posts were deleted yesterday because I mentioned a forbidden topic on this particular forum. Please PM me with a link to your new End Times Forum thread if you want to continue this discussion. Thank you.

 

[precepts]

I believe we are living in the times of the Gentiles right now which is also known as the thousand years' reign of Jesus Christ. It is drawing to its close/fulfillment. I believe this is so because Israel became a nation again in 1948.

I have no time for assumptions!

[

COLOR="#a0522d"] Luke 21:24 (NIV)
24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.[/COLOR]

JMJ12:13

This discussion if continued, should be moved to the End Times Forum. Two of my posts were deleted yesterday because I mentioned a forbidden topic on this particular forum. Please PM me with a link to your new End Times Forum thread if you want to continue this discussion. Thank you.

No Thanks.

 

[Free]

Rom 11:1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 "LORD, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS AND TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY SEEK MY LIFE"?
Rom 11:4 But what does the divine response say to him? "I HAVE RESERVED FOR MYSELF SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
Rom 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Rom 11:8 Just as it is written: "GOD HAS GIVEN THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES THAT THEY SHOULD NOT SEE AND EARS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT HEAR, TO THIS VERY DAY."
Rom 11:9 And David says: "LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RECOMPENSE TO THEM.
Rom 11:10 LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED, SO THAT THEY DO NOT SEE, AND BOW DOWN THEIR BACK ALWAYS."
Rom 11:11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
Rom 11:12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
Rom 11:14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;
Rom 11:27 FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
Rom 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Rom 11:30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
Rom 11:31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
Rom 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 "FOR WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD? OR WHO HAS BECOME HIS COUNSELOR?"
Rom 11:35 "OR WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM AND IT SHALL BE REPAID TO HIM?"
Rom 11:36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. (NKJV)

 

[jasoncran]

:eeeekkkits the faith and god of isreal that were grafted into. this means we that are gentiles(im not) can also be as isreal was., his children and begotten.

this isnt hard. it helps to open the good book and read it first from genesis and see that god called gentiles before abraham.abraham being faithful god used his seeds and made a promise to that seed.

 

[Eventide]

Christ is the branch we're grafted into, not Israel!

That's right... Israel is presently cut off and blinded in part.. and we know that the nation of Israel will also be grafted back into Christ when the Deliverer shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from JACOB...

 

[Adullam]

A true saint is a resident of Zion...which will become the new Jerusalem. In Christ DNA counts for nothing at all. So if a Gentile can be born into the family of God and become a citizen of the holy city...then he is of Israel of God. Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel. It stands to reason that one cannot be of Jerusalem if one is not of Israel.

 

[precepts]

Rom 11:1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 "LORD, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS AND TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY SEEK MY LIFE"?
Rom 11:4 But what does the divine response say to him? "I HAVE RESERVED FOR MYSELF SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
Rom 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Rom 11:8 Just as it is written: "GOD HAS GIVEN THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES THAT THEY SHOULD NOT SEE AND EARS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT HEAR, TO THIS VERY DAY."
Rom 11:9 And David says: "LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RECOMPENSE TO THEM.
Rom 11:10 LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED, SO THAT THEY DO NOT SEE, AND BOW DOWN THEIR BACK ALWAYS."
Rom 11:11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
Rom 11:12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
Rom 11:14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;
Rom 11:27 FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
Rom 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Rom 11:30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
Rom 11:31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
Rom 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 "FOR WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD? OR WHO HAS BECOME HIS COUNSELOR?"
Rom 11:35 "OR WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM AND IT SHALL BE REPAID TO HIM?"
Rom 11:36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. (NKJV)

It's impossible for every person born a jew to be saved.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Are they continuing in unbelief today? Yes!!!

 

[precepts]

:eeeekkkits the faith and god of isreal that were grafted into. this means we that are gentiles(im not) can also be as isreal was., his children and begotten.

I guess that explains the parable of the two eagles, the fig tree, and the reason why there was no Judaic king post Babylon.

this isnt hard. it helps to open the good book and read it first from genesis and see that god called gentiles before abraham.abraham being faithful god used his seeds and made a promise to that seed.

You need to read or reread this thread!


Abdullam's

A true saint is a resident of Zion...which will become the new Jerusalem. In Christ DNA counts for nothing at all. So if a Gentile can be born into the family of God and become a citizen of the holy city...then he is of Israel of God. Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel. It stands to reason that one cannot be of Jerusalem if one is not of Israel.

The fact that you, and others choose to ignore is that Christ is the branch that's planted. Israel is the branch that was plucked up, the reason for no Judaic kings post Babylon. Whether you people want to accept it, or not is your problem, but the facts are as clear as the day! Not everyone that cries Lord, Lord is of God. Look at the Pharisees and Sadducees!

 

[jasoncran]

:bigfrown my dad a jew and raised in the temple. taught me as a boy that adam, enoch and noah werent hebrews. i guess the jews are wrong,and they dont know their tanach. that said i find it odd that you claim that i disagree. the gentiles are able via the blood to become adopted sons and daughters of god by faith. hebrew children had the same offering to them alone and the charge to carry that to the world. christians now have that charge.

we serve the God that revealed himself specifically and chiefly to the children of abraham. they have names for him that we use in our churches though anglised.hmm Jehovah, Jesus, adonai and elohim. our God is a jewish god.

 

[precepts]

:bigfrown my dad a jew and raised in the temple. taught me as a boy that adam, enoch and noah werent hebrews. i guess the jews are wrong,and they dont know their tanach. that said i find it odd that you claim that i disagree. the gentiles are able via the blood to become adopted sons and daughters of god by faith. hebrew children had the same offering to them alone and the charge to carry that to the world. christians now have that charge.

we serve the God that revealed himself specifically and chiefly to the children of abraham. they have names for him that we use in our churches though anglised.hmm Jehovah, Jesus, adonai and elohim. our God is a jewish god.

All this I denied?! The fact you, and others refuse to accept is anyone, or nation that denies Christ, he denies! That's a fact! The fact that denominational christian can't correctly interpret old testament scriptures is why they think this way. There's no 2,000 yr old prophecies to be fulfilled. All has been fulfilled.

Ask, and you shall recieve! That's the facts! Like Christ said, you have not because you ask not! Why you wouldn't ask is a different topic, for a different thread!

 

[jasoncran]

where did you get that, its spiritual isreal and the faithful isreal. ah yes we should just let kites like me die in the shoah. or better yet islam have its way with isreal. i know all the sins of isreal but well they are my family. if my dad who is an anti-christ in that aspect calls me for help and says help with me with this. i will help if i can. no christian is saying that all of isreal is right with god, just that god is going to turn them around to him.

its an eschatology i dont even agree with!

 

[precepts]

where did you get that, its spiritual isreal and the faithful isreal.

Get what?

ah yes we should just let kites like me die in the shoah. or better yet islam have its way with isreal.

Like I said before, if only they would ask instead of assuming. Why won't they ask?!

i know all the sins of isreal but well they are my family. if my dad who is an anti-christ in that aspect calls me for help and says help with me with this. i will help if i can. no christian is saying that all of isreal is right with god, just that god is going to turn them around to him.

All that's fine and good, but what about the innocent palestinians who had Israel forced on them by misinterpreting bible colonialists? What about their suffering, or do they not matter in God's eye? They're someone's dad, mom, son, etc. too. What about them?!

its an eschatology i dont even agree with!

It's not something to agree with. The facts are the facts, the truth, the truth. This whole mess in the middle east is because of the Colonial powers misinterpretation of scripture and justice. Why should the palestinians suffer at the hands of so-called Jewish extremist that want the land solely for themselves. That's a political injustice similiar to colonialism!

 

[Sinthesis]

It's not something to agree with. The facts are the facts, the truth, the truth. This whole mess in the middle east is because of the Colonial powers misinterpretation of scripture and justice. Why should the palestinians suffer at the hands of so-called Jewish extremist that want the land solely for themselves. That's a political injustice similiar to colonialism!

Do you believe all Israeli Jews are extremists? How about all Muslim Palestinians?

 

[jasoncran]

im all for the withdrawal of jews from palenstine but only when europe removes all its white persons and blacks from north america. that is greater holocaust. ah yes but i dont get to leave, married to an american indian.

isreal strives not to be overly cruel to the muslims there.

 

[precepts]

Do you believe all Israeli Jews are extremists? How about all Muslim Palestinians?

Would that be rational?

 

[precepts]

im all for the withdrawal of jews from palenstine but only when europe removes all its white persons and blacks from north america. that is greater holocaust. ah yes but i dont get to leave, married to an american indian.

isreal strives not to be overly cruel to the muslims there.

Once again with the assumptions and accusations. Nothing you or anyone else on these sites, say or do, will ever change the truth or the facts! The biblical truth will be told!!

 

[chakham]

What did Yehovah promise Abraham? I thought he said "... And in you shall all families of the earth be blessed." It is my understanding the Hebrew word translated here as blessed has several meanings. It can also be translated as 'mixed' or, hold on now, as 'grafted' too. In fact the word is used only three times in the entire Bible namely Genesis 12:3, 18:18 and 28:14. I believe Paul speaks of this as well in Romans chapter 11. How the wild branches (gentiles) are grafted into the true vine (Israel).