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Bible Study What a Christian is...

JohnD said:
Only believers in Jesus Christ are sons and daughters of God the Father by adoption through faith.

Ephesians 1:5 (NASB95)
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Jesus (in his body) is the direct Son of the Father. We are the Father's adopted children.
Click to expand...
Hi Brother John, I'll just paste the following excerpt for your consideration.

Adoption
Ephesians Study excerpt by A.S. Copley
http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Ephesians - Exaltation of the Sons of God.pdf

Therefore, let us consider the original word (huiothesian), here translated "adoption of children." It is from "huios" meaning "a son"; and from "tithemi" meaning "to place, put, set, fix, determine, plant." It signifies to place or fix as sons. The Diagiott renders it "sonship," which expresses it correctly. The phrase, "adoption of children." does not state the exact fact. By the new birth we receive "the Spirit of His (God's) Son," which certainly means far more than adoption - Galatians 4:6. Most emphatically, we are not adopted into God's family. We are born into it, by being "born of God" - I John 5:1. An adopted child is only added; and partakes in no sense of the natures of the parents. A child who is born of his parents, partakes of the natures and dispositions of the parents. Believers on Christ are made "partakers of the divine nature" (II Peter 1:4), and "are made partakers of Christ" (Hebrews 3:14). Otherwise, they could not be heavenly or spiritual.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.
 
Eugene said:
I've been there; done that and will be praying for you. :wave2
Click to expand...

Thank you,Brother.

My beloved wife of 33+ years and I were chatting this morning about our situation. Over 5 years now of uncertainty career wise (and I am 53 now). Lately I have been at peace about it all taking to heart what I have been saying / professing without actually putting any real faith into it... "God has always taken care of us, always... even when doom seemed certain, and I know he always will." And what a difference it makes to put faith into this wonderful profession (which is actually meaningless until you do).

Then a wonderful thought came to mind...

The way the world looks at these things means tragedy, bitterness, despair, etc. And it was very hard not to see it that when I was looking at it through man's eyes. Through the eyes of the Spirit I see we are very blessed. We have each other, our health, the necessities of life we've got. And the rumored doing away of job positions have never come to pass to date.

Humility is the issue. My struggle was with humility and wanting some sense of security in this life, and there is none never was (even when I believed I had career security etc) except only in Christ Jesus.

Then it truly is "for me to live is Christ and to die is GAIN!"

Sometimes it is hard to keep our minds and our hearts that focused on Jesus (especially when we see loved ones suffering because of our bad (career and other) choices... but God is still in charge and will repay to them the years the locusts have eaten with a greater reward in heaven.

The Big Picture...

Sorry for this wordy thank you post... LOL
 
Actually, we are born from above / born again is the precise phrase.

If we were to take this as literally as you (Eugene) suggest, then does this refer to our spirit or our body or both?

Consider, birth with this regard means beginning... from nothingness?

That strict literal interpretation / application of birth would mean at the very least a total end to our spirit or body and replacement spirit / body.

Romans 8:23 (KJV)
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

This would seem to refute such a literal interpretation of born again / from above as an actual birth / creation event.

Ergo... the scriptural points that Luke 3:38 and others indicating that the Creator in the beginning is creations actual Father, and the Father of the body of Jesus alone is the adoptive Father of those who believe in Jesus still ring true.

Romans 8:15 (KJV)
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:23 (KJV)
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Romans 9:4 (KJV)
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;***

Galatians 4:5 (KJV)
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Ephesians 1:5 (KJV)
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

*** even to the Jews (the natural branches of the Olive Tree [Romans 11:16-28] it was not direct sonship to God the Father but adoption.

God bless.
 
Dear Brother John, you are at the very age of vulnerability thinking of life, and I doubt any of us passed through those fires without contemplating all the woes of the world we might face. That part of my life is ended having been retired now for fourteen years, and also looking back in wonder at how God brought me through it was truly miraculous many times over.

I've been married now for fifty-seven years, we feel secure in our Savior, and our love grows daily in expectation of things hoped for with the assurance of things unseen. God does not leave us, delivers on His promises, and adds the peace that passes understanding through it all. The many things God brings us through is molding us into the very image of Christ, and His work will continue until we are face to face with Him. Always look up brother knowing that He is able to keep all that you have committed unto Him in Jesus' name. ♥♥♥
 
JohnD said:
Actually, we are born from above / born again is the precise phrase.

If we were to take this as literally as you (Eugene) suggest, then does this refer to our spirit or our body or both?

Consider, birth with this regard means beginning... from nothingness?

That strict literal interpretation / application of birth would mean at the very least a total end to our spirit or body and replacement spirit / body.

Romans 8:23 (KJV)
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

This would seem to refute such a literal interpretation of born again / from above as an actual birth / creation event.

Ergo... the scriptural points that Luke 3:38 and others indicating that the Creator in the beginning is creations actual Father, and the Father of the body of Jesus alone is the adoptive Father of those who believe in Jesus still ring true.

Romans 8:15 (KJV)
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:23 (KJV)
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Romans 9:4 (KJV)
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;***

Galatians 4:5 (KJV)
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Ephesians 1:5 (KJV)
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

*** even to the Jews (the natural branches of the Olive Tree [Romans 11:16-28] it was not direct sonship to God the Father but adoption.

God bless.
Click to expand...
You've got me; I really do not know what you're attempting to say. Sorry.
 
Eugene said:
You've got me; I really do not know what you're attempting to say. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Okay.

The adoption we have is not a recreation / replacement of who we are or who we were per se** but a transformation of who we were to who we are. And the perfecting of our bodies (and melding of our bodies to our spirit i.e. a spirit-body):

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV)
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

** 2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is referring to the transformation within (the ability to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, awaiting the perfection of the body etc). If it was referring to our actual being then the admonitions of the NT are rather superfluous... and the daily bout we have against our sin nature would indicate we did not actually get saved...

Romans 7:6 (KJV)
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

1 John 3:2 (KJV)
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

... as resurrected human beings, of course.

The over all point I was making is that Christians are adopted by God the Father.

Jesus (in body) is the only direct creation of the Father. John 1:14 / Hebrews 10:5 / Hebrews 1:5

In his preincarnate existence as God the Word, Jesus alone created all things created (John 1:1-3 / Colossians 1:13-16 / Isaiah 44:24) ergo...

Luke 3:38 (KJV)
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

In light of the full revelation of scripture:

Luke 3:38
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God (the Word).

And this is true with every reference of sons of God children of God... God the Word.

Genesis 1:1 (JDB: johndbaptiste's understanding of the passage)
In the beginning God [the Word] created the heaven and the earth.

Both God the Father (1 John 1:2) and God the Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2) were there, but only God the Word acted alone in creating all things created in the beginning.

So we are not sons of Adam son of God the Father as human beings. We are sons of Adam son of God the Word.

As Christians we are sons of God the Father by adoption through faith in our Creator (God the Word become the man who died on the cross and rose the third day from death).

It may sound knit-picky, but it's really not. It's about the way we are related to God in our relationship with God. It is also a means to clear up any confusion about the Trinity (the Triune Nature of God).

The so-called Apostle's creed for example begins with the error of attributing all of creation to God the Father.

It's no wonder people avoid the subject like they do with all the bad examples and misunderstandings the traditions of men foist upon the subject...
 
A Christian is a believer of Jesus Christ the risen Son of God.Sometimes people make it too complicated.
 
Kathi said:
A Christian is a believer of Jesus Christ the risen Son of God.Sometimes people make it too complicated.
Click to expand...

Or, put another way...

The Gospel is simple enough a child could understand it,
And profound enough for the wisest most knowledgeable people
Could swim forever in this endless sea

I believer this is a more positive, nicer way of putting it.
 
JohnD - The over all point I was making is that Christians are adopted by God the Father.

Eugene - Are you saying we’re not born of God, or real sons? Is there some denominational name associated to this doctrine?

JohnD - Jesus (in body) is the only direct creation of the Father.

Eugene - You think Jesus the man is created? or just His earthly body.

JohnD - ** 2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
This is referring to the transformation within (the ability to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, awaiting the perfection of the body etc). If it was referring to our actual being then the admonitions of the NT are rather superfluous... and the daily bout we have against our sin nature would indicate we did not actually get saved...

Eugene – Superfluous? Can you illustrate that? Do you think Paul believed that to be his experience of Romans Chapter Seven?

Thanks in Jesus’ name. :)
 
Eugene said:
JohnD - The over all point I was making is that Christians are adopted by God the Father.

Eugene - Are you saying we’re not born of God, or real sons? Is there some denominational name associated to this doctrine?

JohnD - Jesus (in body) is the only direct creation of the Father.

Eugene - You think Jesus the man is created? or just His earthly body.

JohnD - ** 2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
This is referring to the transformation within (the ability to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, awaiting the perfection of the body etc). If it was referring to our actual being then the admonitions of the NT are rather superfluous... and the daily bout we have against our sin nature would indicate we did not actually get saved...

Eugene – Superfluous? Can you illustrate that? Do you think Paul believed that to be his experience of Romans Chapter Seven?

Thanks in Jesus’ name. :)
Click to expand...

The term "born of God" in 1 John refers to our spirit which is divorced from our flesh (Romans 7 I no longer sin but sin lives within me that is my flesh) and this is in a reckoning of Christ's righteousness rather than our actual righteousness. The term born of God is also idiom used to describe those who are saved yet untranslated / perfected / resurrected yet.

If you would take the term too literally then you must also do so with the claims that we do not sin and you would be in a theological briar patch with the same author in 1 John 1:5 - 1 John 2:1.
 
JohnD said:
Thank you,Brother.

My beloved wife of 33+ years and I were chatting this morning about our situation. Over 5 years now of uncertainty career wise (and I am 53 now). Lately I have been at peace about it all taking to heart what I have been saying / professing without actually putting any real faith into it... "God has always taken care of us, always... even when doom seemed certain, and I know he always will." And what a difference it makes to put faith into this wonderful profession (which is actually meaningless until you do).

Then a wonderful thought came to mind...

The way the world looks at these things means tragedy, bitterness, despair, etc. And it was very hard not to see it that when I was looking at it through man's eyes. Through the eyes of the Spirit I see we are very blessed. We have each other, our health, the necessities of life we've got. And the rumored doing away of job positions have never come to pass to date.

Humility is the issue. My struggle was with humility and wanting some sense of security in this life, and there is none never was (even when I believed I had career security etc) except only in Christ Jesus.

Then it truly is "for me to live is Christ and to die is GAIN!"

Sometimes it is hard to keep our minds and our hearts that focused on Jesus (especially when we see loved ones suffering because of our bad (career and other) choices... but God is still in charge and will repay to them the years the locusts have eaten with a greater reward in heaven.

The Big Picture...

Sorry for this wordy thank you post... LOL
Click to expand...

John, this is an exceptional post, very well done. I wish that all men who struggle with their employment could read this.

I like how the ASV translates Hebrews 11:1 "Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen". There is something about those two words, assurance and conviction that just seem to be very realistic to me. I purchased a paperback study version of the ASV, not being sure I'd like it. When I compared it to my beloved KJV, I found it extremely accurate. I then purchased a leather bound ASV Study edition and have used it for over a year. It's when I saw Heb. 11:1, that verse jumped into my spirit, I think the Holy Spirit was behind that, and I was convinced.

Assurance and conviction seem to me as FINAL WORDS! there seems to be no guessing. Anyway, those two words have increased my faith and confidence in the things of Yahweh. I have noticed more confidence on my part when I pray.

Again, I really liked your post, keep them coming. You are a good teacher of the Scriptures with good understanding.
 
JohnD said:
The term "born of God" in 1 John refers to our spirit which is divorced from our flesh (Romans 7 I no longer sin but sin lives within me that is my flesh) and this is in a reckoning of Christ's righteousness rather than our actual righteousness. The term born of God is also idiom used to describe those who are saved yet untranslated / perfected / resurrected yet.

If you would take the term too literally then you must also do so with the claims that we do not sin and you would be in a theological briar patch with the same author in 1 John 1:5 - 1 John 2:1.
Click to expand...
Hi JohnD, I do take the terms "Saved" and "Born again" literally, and yet with different contexts as to their application. Born again being the state of our new life in Christ with a new nature that cannot sin, and yet we retain the flesh of the old man that can; thus the fight between the flesh and the Spirit from generation to generation. But in Christ we remain the overcomer regardless in that there is now no condemnation. Salvation as the result of being born of God comes with the thought of condition to begin with; if you receive the Lord Jesus, and then moves to the thought of having overcome the world and the penalty of sin, next working out our own salvation as we learn to not be overcome with evil, but to overcome the very habit of sin in our lives. Lastly we will be saved from the presence of sin. This ought to bring enough flak for this post. :)
 
JohnD said:
Okay.

The adoption we have is not a recreation / replacement of who we are or who we were per se** but a transformation of who we were to who we are. And the perfecting of our bodies (and melding of our bodies to our spirit i.e. a spirit-body):

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV)
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

** 2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is referring to the transformation within (the ability to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, awaiting the perfection of the body etc). If it was referring to our actual being then the admonitions of the NT are rather superfluous... and the daily bout we have against our sin nature would indicate we did not actually get saved...

Romans 7:6 (KJV)
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

1 John 3:2 (KJV)
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

... as resurrected human beings, of course.

The over all point I was making is that Christians are adopted by God the Father.

Jesus (in body) is the only direct creation of the Father. John 1:14 / Hebrews 10:5 / Hebrews 1:5

In his preincarnate existence as God the Word, Jesus alone created all things created (John 1:1-3 / Colossians 1:13-16 / Isaiah 44:24) ergo...

Luke 3:38 (KJV)
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

In light of the full revelation of scripture:

Luke 3:38
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God (the Word).

And this is true with every reference of sons of God children of God... God the Word.

Genesis 1:1 (JDB: johndbaptiste's understanding of the passage)
In the beginning God [the Word] created the heaven and the earth.

Both God the Father (1 John 1:2) and God the Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2) were there, but only God the Word acted alone in creating all things created in the beginning.

So we are not sons of Adam son of God the Father as human beings. We are sons of Adam son of God the Word.

As Christians we are sons of God the Father by adoption through faith in our Creator (God the Word become the man who died on the cross and rose the third day from death).

It may sound knit-picky, but it's really not. It's about the way we are related to God in our relationship with God. It is also a means to clear up any confusion about the Trinity (the Triune Nature of God).

The so-called Apostle's creed for example begins with the error of attributing all of creation to God the Father.

It's no wonder people avoid the subject like they do with all the bad examples and misunderstandings the traditions of men foist upon the subject...
Click to expand...

Hi John, I like your position on the death of the old man and the life of the new man. I'd like to place a quote from "Abide Above" with permission from them.

2-14. Continuous Cross
“For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus’ sake” (2 Cor. 4:11).

The indwelling Lord Jesus is the source of our life of liberation; the Cross is the means to it. As we abide in Him and He in us, we are to reckon upon the finished work of Calvary to deal progressively with self. It is on this basis alone that the life of Jesus will be manifested in our mortal flesh (2 Cor. 4:11).

“God has taken the old creation and has condemned it in Christ, and is now working on the new creation. There is no place in the plan of God for the betterment of the old creation. He does not bring about some kind of transformation of the old man so as to produce some kind of resemblance to Christ in Christian character and conduct. There is only one place for the old creation, and that is the Cross.

“But it is not enough for us to say it is there crucified with Christ. Crucifixion was a lingering death, and while we stand once for all upon the fact of God, which is eternal and unchangeable, when our Lord Jesus Christ went to the Cross He took more than our sins with Him; He took our old man and dealt with the source of all our sin, and dealt with it satisfactorily. While we stand on that fact, there has to be the daily working out of the victory which Christ has won for us; there has to be the daily dying to this old self. The Holy Spirit has to work into us the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in all its wonderful power and purpose.” -G.W.

“Being made conformable unto his death” (Phil 3:10)

February
This is a monthly reading schedule that is very good. http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/day/2014/02/14/ is where you can find it.
 
Kathi said:
A Christian is a believer of Jesus Christ the risen Son of God.Sometimes people make it too complicated.
Click to expand...
Kathi,
That can be true but not always. Satan and all of the demons believe Jesus is the Son of God. This is one of the reasons for
reading the Bible through, Genesis to the last Amen of the Revelation. Knowing a Probable Christian is not hard but even then it will be up to Jesus, not us.

Jesus gave us a method for knowing the most likely when He explained that we would know them by their fruit. But even then we do not know the heart of them. I have witnessed folks that worked for years, then got tired and were suddenly getting drunk, regularly, and sleeping around. All we can do is to try to lead these back into the fold and to pray for all the folks we know.
 
I agree with Bill Taylor, There are so many folk who profess to believe in Jesus, but the question is; did Jesus commit Himself to them. Case in point, the Gospel of John 2:23,24,25 "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many believed in his name when they saw the signs that he was doing. But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them, because he knew all people and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he knew what was in man".

As Bill said, it's up to Jesus!
 
The reason the fallen angels / demons believe and are not saved is because they are not redeemable. They are already in their forever state. Man is not. Man by the fact that we were created with the ability to die physically fulfills the Law "the soul that sins shall die." But as a hybrid of spirit and flesh, our spirits (and our bodies) can be redeemed since the perfect human sacrifice was made by our kinsman redeemer Jesus Christ. And we can be raised to eternal life with him because he conquered death and rose from the grave.

It's up to Jesus alright... and he said:

John 3:16-18 (NKJV)
16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
Then let me put it this way.
A true Christian is a person who has put faith and trust in the person and work of Jesus Christ,including His death on the cross as payment of sin and His resurrection.
A "true" Christian is a child God.
I say true because not all those who call themselves Christians truly are not Christians and will not be saved.
 
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