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What are the facts?

G

GundamZero

Guest
Where do all of you stand in regards to God's word?
Do you believe it to be literal, or just good stories to learn from?
What in you "religion" do you consider true or false?
 
this is my whole perspective on life in a nutshell
i believe that reality is nothing more than what each individual makes it to be.
For example the word religion was created by a human so each human can take the meaning of the word religion differently.
Something can be true to one person but not to another simply because they don't believe it is true.
when i read the bible i look for hidden messages and meaning not just literal words and terms. For example if the world was created in 6 days and God rested on the 7th the humans and dinosaurs would have been together correct... if that were the case we would probably have died out from the more fierce dinosaurs... but as i sad above that is simply the reality i have made of it and others can have their own beliefs and truths
 
GundamZero said:
Where do all of you stand in regards to God's word?
Do you believe it to be literal, or just good stories to learn from?
What in you "religion" do you consider true or false?

The Apostles' Creed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*The word "catholic" refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ.


Having said that, I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Take it literally where it is meant to be taken literally. Symbolicly where it is meant to be symbolic.


2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Word of God builds faith.
Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

It is meant to be studied.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

It is powerful.
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 
so two humans started the whole race?
humans and dinosaurs lived on the earth together.
The world was created in 6 days?

also you never seem to answer my questions but that is your choice and i cant criticize you for your decision
 
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

It could have taken God 6 thousands years to create it all. Even scientist agree that dinosaurs were not around that long. Which is perfect with Scripture. Something to think about
 
I take it mostly as literal! Though some prophecies are more analogous to parables - sometimes - almost always they are fulfilled literally!! Also to take the fact that creation took 6 days, (days of men) and not of God is also a mistake. Seeing that man even at that time in a fallen state lived much longer! Besides the Genesis account is a (RE)creation narrative from the view of one on earth that would have seen this process happening if it were possible. Then he tells Adam and Eve to (Re)plenish the earth! So it must have been plenished before. The Kataboe must have been the destruction of the first Age in Gen 1:2. Dino's must have been around as the Bible attests to, since it says so. Pottery and ancient artifacts verify these accounts, correctly assigning reptilian anatomy and proportion in pictures that dont lie. Though man and dino supposedly never lived at the same time, it must be a false assumption!
 
now yes as you said the Days of god are longer then the days of men that i believe but.. still two humans starting the race is so unprobable that its obserd to think about.
 
now yes as you said the Days of god are longer then the days of men that i believe but.. still two humans starting the race is so unprobable that its obserd to think about.
 
GundamZero said:
Where do all of you stand in regards to God's word?
Do you believe it to be literal, or just good stories to learn from?
What in you "religion" do you consider true or false?

My stand on the issue is that the bible is more or less a collection of fairy tales and fables, some with good moral points and others that are more gory and made all for thrills than anything else.
Sure I enjoy going to a movie with a lot of explosions and very little plot just as much as the next person, but I do not take a moral lesson away from these, the only lesson I get it perhaps "Wow! never try to drive a car through a blazing inferno.... :lol: "
Some of the things that god told his people to do supposedly, in both the old and new testament, were very gory and IMO almost evil. I would not want to take any moral lesson away from that other than "That is something that no one should ever do..."
The things god ordered done in Exodus were sometimes (usually) on par with Hitler's extermination of the jews.
What is the excuse I hear most often "God is held to a different standard of good than humans." to me that is crazy, if god is held to a different standard then what is the definition of "good" or "righteous" or "truth"?
If it is the human definition of good, then god is most certainly not good. If the definition of good is decided by god, the ultimately the definition has no meaning, if god is the one deciding what is good then automatically anything god does becomes good and anything that is "against him" (once again decided by him) is evil.

Oscar Wilde once said that quotes are mearly a substitute for wit, but I think this one fits,
"You can guarantee that you have made god in your own image when he hates all the same people you do."

If I should ever have children or adopt any, I believe that you would probably be more likely to catch me teaching my children the Buddha's Eightfold path and the morals of Confuscianism than you would see me teaching them morals from the Bible.
 
THANK YOU
you are probably one of the only people i can agree with on this form
 
Well, The Word actually says that God placed Adam in the Garden on the 8th day, he created man on the 6th day! So, Its not contradictory! The races who where created in God's image where created on the 6th day which wouldn't include Neanderthals and such! The Adam (The Man) was placed in the garden on the 8th day!
 
Your post makes absolutely no sense at all.
For one thing if God created man on the sixth day and placed him on the eight were was man for those 2 days?
Also why couldn't god have created Neanderthals. We have found bones and even full skeletons of Neanderthals so if God did not create them than what did?

And besides when God created "man" if he created them as we appear today what are the Neanderthals then?
 
I didn't say that the word ADAM is specific to the Human race decending from the Man Adam! God created, recreated everything!

Genesis 1:26-27 states: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

In EW Bullinger's Companion Bible The word Man in 1:26 is translated "Mankind" Also if you compare the Strongs of this verse and the 2nd chapter they differ. I get into that later.

That was the 6th Day - And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

In Genesis 2:5 God states: there was not a man to till the ground which was after the 7th day. In Genesis 2:7-8 God states: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

So the Man Called By us Adam wasn't formed and placed into the garden until the 8th day and mankind "adamlike' people were created on the 6th day. Hence thats why people were around and they could populate after adam and eve exited the garden!
 
Many People mentioned in the Old Testament are confirmed in sources
outside the Bible. These are but a few of a much greater list. Modern
Archeology has disputed many arguments of fable labeled on the Bible.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

The palace at Jericho where Eglon, king of Moab, was assassinated by Ehud
(Judges 3:15-30).

The Temple of Baal/El-Berith in Shechem, where funds were obtained to
finance Abimelech's kingship and where the citizens of Shechem took refuge when Abimelech attacked the city (Judges 9:4, 46-49).

The east gate of Shechem where Gaal and Zebul watched the forces of Abimelech approach the city (Judges 9:34-38).

The pool of Gibeon where the forces of David and Ishbosheth fought during the struggle for the kingship of Israel (2 Samuel 2:12-32).

The Pool of Samaria where King Ahab's chariot was washed after his death (1 Kings 22:29-38).

The royal palace at Samaria where the kings of Israel lived (1 Kings 20:43-
22:39; 2 Kings 1:2; 15:25).

THE MOABITE STONE also called the MESHA STELE: Is a basalt stone, bearing an inscription of King Mesha, the king of Moab, which was discovered at Dibon, Jordan, in 1868. It is 3 1/2 feet high, 2 feet wide, consisting of 34 lines, written in Hebrew-Phoenician characters. It was erected in about 850 B.C. by King Mesha as a record and memorial. This inscription corroborates the history of King Mesha recorded in 2 Kings 3:4-27. When the Moabite Stone was found, it proved as the Bible stated, that David conquered Moab, that Solomon held Moab, and that Moab broke free at the outset of the divided kingdom.

The pool of Siloam inscription was discovered in 1880 at the sight of the pool of Siloam. The inscription and can be found at the Istanbul Archaeological Museum in Turkey. It reads: “The account of breakthrough is as follows. While the tunnelers were working with their picks, each toward the other, and while there was still 5 feet of rock to go through, the rock split to the south and to the north, and the voices of each were heard calling one to another. And at that moment the laborers broke through striking pick against pick. Then the water began to flow from the spring to the pool for a distance of 1,900 feet. And the height of the tunnel above the heads of the laborers was 160 feet.†The pool of Siloam was originally constructed by King Hezekiah who ruled from 716-687 B.C. as recorded in 2 Kings 20:20 & 2 Chronicles 32:30.

The Shebna Lintel or Shebaniah, royal steward of Hezekiah: only the last two letters of a name survive, but the title of his position ("over the house" of the king) and the date indicated by the script style, have inclined many scholars to identify the person it refers to with Shebna, found in 2 Ki 18:18- 19:2 & in Isaiah.

The Pool of Heshbon, likened to the eyes of the Shulammite woman (Song of Songs 7:4).

The royal palace in Babylon where King Belshazzar held the feast and Daniel interpreted the handwriting on the wall (Daniel 5).

The royal palace in Susa where Esther was queen of the Persian king Xerxes (Esther).

The royal gate at Susa where Mordecai, Esther's cousin, sat (Esther).

The Square in front of the royal gate at Susa where Mordecai met with Halthach, Xerxes' eunuch (Esther 4:6).


Biblical figures identified in contemporary sources.
----------------------------------------------------

Ahab, king of Israel: Mentioned extensively in Kings and Chronicles. Identified in the contemporary Kurkh Monolith inscription of Shalmaneser III which describes the Battle of Qarqar and mentions 2,000 chariots, 10,000 soldiers of Ahab defeated by Shalmaneser.

Ahaz (Jehoahaz), king of Judah: Mentioned extensively in Kings, Chronicles and Isaiah as well as in Hosea 1:1 and Micah 1:1. Identified in the Summary Inscription of Tiglath-Pileser III which records that he received tribute from Jehoahaz the Judahite, as mentioned in 2 Kings 16:7-8 and 2 Chronicles 28:21. Also identified in a contemporary clay bulla, reading of Ahaz [son of] Jotham king of Judah. Another bulla reading of Ushna servant of Ahaz is likely a reference to King Ahaz as well.

Apries (Hophra), pharaoh of Egypt: Mentioned in Jeremiah 44:30. Identified in numerous contemporary inscriptions including the columns of The palace of Apries. Mentioned by Herodotus in his Histories II, pg 161-171.

Ashurbanipal (Asenappar/Sardanapalus), king of Assyria: Mentioned in Ezra 4:10. Identified in numerous contemporary inscriptions including one listing Manasseh king of Judah amongst the kings who had brought him gifts and aided his conquest of Egypt. His inscriptions tell of his conquest of Elam and Babylon which accords with Ezra 4:9-10 where people that he exiled from these regions are mentioned. Diodorus Siculus also preserved a fanciful account of him through Ctesias (book II, 21).

Cyaxares (Achiachar/Ahasuerus), ally of Nebuchadnezzar (also found in in Tobit) and father of Darius the Mede (in Daniel)

Jedidiah the name given to Solomon by the prophet Nathan in 2 Samuel 12:25

Sanballat, governor of Samaria the leading figure of the opposition which Nehemiah encountered during the rebuilding of the walls around the temple in Jerusalem.

Azaliah, scribe in the Temple in Jerusalem: Mentioned in 2 Kings 22:3 and 2 Chronicles 34:8. A bulla reading Azaliah son of Meshullam is likely to be his.

Azariah, grandfather of Ezra: Mentioned in 1 Chronicles 6:13,14; 9:11 and Ezra 7:1. A bulla reading Azariah son of Hilkiah is likely to be his.

Baruch, scribe of the prophet Jeremiah: Mentioned in Jeremiah (and in Baruch). A clay bulla found in 1975 reading of Berechiah son of Neriah the scribe is likely his. The name translated Berachiah consists of the Hebrew letters of the name Baruch with the Tetragrammaton appended.

Hilkiah, high priest in the Temple in Jerusalem: Mentioned throughout 2 Kings 22:8-23:24 and 2 Chronicles 34:9-35:8 as well as in 1 Chronicles 6:13; 9:11 and Ezra 7:1. The clay bulla naming a Hilkiah as the father of an Azariah, as well as another bulla reading Hanan son of Hilkiah the priest are likely to be references to him.

Meshullam, father of Azaliah the scribe: Mentioned in 2 Kings 22:3. The contemporary bulla naming Meshullam as the father of an Azaliah is likely to be a reference to him.


Engraved Images found representing Biblical figures:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shishak, the Egyptian king who plundered the Temple during the reign of Rehoboam (1 Kings 14:25-26). Recorded on the walls of the Temple of Amun in Thebes, Egypt.

Jehu, king of Israel, who took power in a bloody coup; having the only surviving likeness of a king of Israel or Judah (2nd Kings 9:1-10:36).

Hazael, king of Aram, enemy of Israel (1st & 2nd Kings & Amos 1:4).

Tiglath-Pileser III, king of Assyria, who invaded Israel (2nd Kings, 1st & 2nd Chronicles).

Sargon II, king of Assyria, who defeated Ashdod and completed the siege of Samaria and took Israelites into captivity (Isaiah 20:1), recorded on his palace walls.

Siege of Lachish by Sennacherib (2 Kings 18:14, 17), as recorded on the Lachish reliefs.

Sennacherib, king of Assyria, who attacked Judah but was unable to capture Jerusalem (2 Kings 18:13-19:37), as recorded on the Taylor Prism.

Tirhakah, king of Egypt, who opposed Sennacherib (2 Kings 19:9).

Assassination of Sennacherib by his own sons (2 Kings 19:37), as recorded in the annals of his son Esarhaddon.

Esarhaddon, king of Assyria, who succeeded his father Sennacherib (2 Kings 19:37).

Fall of Nineveh as predicted by the prophets Nahum and Zephaniah (2:13-15), recorded on the Tablet of Nabopolasar.

Merodach-baladan, king of Babylon, whose messengers Hezekiah showed the royal treasury, much to the indignation of Isaiah (2 Kings 20:12-19).

Fall of Jerusalem to Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon (2 Kings 24:10-14), as recorded in the Babylonian Chronicles.

Captivity of Jehoiachin, king of Judah, in Babylon (2 Kings 24:15-16), as recorded on the Babylonian Ration Records.

Fall of Babylon to the Medes and Persians (Daniel 5:30-31), as recorded on the Cyrus Cylinder.

Freeing of captives in Babylon by Cyrus the Great (Ezra 1:1-4; 6:3-4), as recorded on the Cyrus Cylinder.

Xerxes I, king of Persia, who made Esther his queen (Esther; Ezra 4:6).

Darius I, king of Persia, who allowed the returning exiles to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem (Ezra 4:24-6:15; Haggai 1:1&15).
 
I hold to the Apostle's creed just as Gabby posted, and I believe that the Bible is the literal (unless otherwise noted) word of God. :) I have researched my faith and found it to be true.
When people say that truth in religion is relative to the individual, I disagree with that. Is that truth relavent, that all truth is relavent to the individual? All of the religions contradict each other, so they can't all be true. I think it's up to us as individuals to take seriously the claims that religions make. Our souls could rest on the line.
-McQ 8-)
 
I believe some of the Bible is worth of taking note. Certainly Jesus Christ's teachings on Love are great. However, I cannot condone some things in the Bible. Like YHWH's acts of genocide and murder in the Old Testament.
 
Gendou Ikari said:
I believe some of the Bible is worth of taking note. Certainly Jesus Christ's teachings on Love are great. However, I cannot condone some things in the Bible. Like YHWH's acts of genocide and murder in the Old Testament.

exactly my point :D
Some of the teachings, like the sermon on the mount are right up there on my list of good morals, right along with the Analects :-D
Other things like the stories of the wars in the old testament....well let's put it this way. If it was made into a movie, it would be rated R or worse....
 
shirono said:
exactly my point :D
Some of the teachings, like the sermon on the mount are right up there on my list of good morals, right along with the Analects :-D
Other things like the stories of the wars in the old testament....well let's put it this way. If it was made into a movie, it would be rated R or worse....

So do you believe in Jesus' claims concerning love but not His claims to be God? Do you believe that the teachings on love are true and accurate, but His claims to deity contained in the same books are either made up, false, or inaccurate?

This is a good read on the old testament violence, if you feel like delving into this and reading the other side: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/ ... elgod.html

Blessings!
-McQ 8-)
 
McQuacks said:
So do you believe in Jesus' claims concerning love but not His claims to be God? Do you believe that the teachings on love are true and accurate, but His claims to deity contained in the same books are either made up, false, or inaccurate?

This is a good read on the old testament violence, if you feel like delving into this and reading the other side: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/ ... elgod.html

Blessings!
-McQ 8-)

You are taking what I said out of context, I'm saying I don't believe anything in the bible anymore than I would believe a fairy tale. That is not to say that fairy tales can't have a good moral about loving your neighbor or that stealing is wrong. I don't choose to believe that Jesus was god, I do not even choose to believe that (while the morals may have been taught by a teacher) they were all necessarily the same man. The morals that were written could easily be a compilation of various teachers over about the same time period.
 
What are the facts

I belive it is how you look at the
Bible. Now as to whether it is good stories or not, the Bible is not just a book. It portrays Gods nature, and is the only piece of literature that can be called "The Word of God." It is all how you make it out to be.
 
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