What are you trusting in????

[Kidron]

Ive often found it curious when i ask a person who says they are a Christian, "are you a Christian"....they will say......"yes, im a Catholic, or yes, im a Baptist, or yes, im a Pentecostal, or "yes, i grew up in the church, or yes, im a Church of God"....

But i didnt ask you what denomination you affiliate with, i asked you, "are you a Christian".


So, i want to ask you a simple question.

What are you trusting in, this very second, to get you into heaven?
What?

Are you trusting in ......water baptism to wash away your sins?
Are you trusting in..... "living a holy life before God"?
Are you trusting in...... a warm fuzzy feeling you once had in Church during an Easter service?
Are you hoping that in the end, you have done enough good deeds so that your good deeds outweigh all your sins and you will make it into heaven?
Do you believe that that by belonging to the only church that God deems his "elect" or his "saved" that this is your passport into heaven?

I want you to ask yourself....." If i die in the next 2 minutes...what am i TRUSTING IN to get me into heaven".
What are you trusting in????
And if the first and only answer that pops into your mind is NOT..." Im trusting in Christ alone, and nothing else" ,=then you have a big problem.
And your problem is that you are ither adding to Christ's finished work or you are substituting something in place of his finished work.
So make SURE you are not trusting in anything but Christ alone by Faith for your salvation and eternal pardon.

Double check......
Be sure...
And the reason is, the obituary page in your paper today is full of people who only yesterday had no idea they were about to meet their maker.
So, be sure that when you meet him, you meet him according to HIS METHOD of Salvation and not yours.
Coz yours is no good.
His is, "in Christ alone do i place my trust".
So, what is yours?
What is it?
??
??
You have 2 mins to find out...






K

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So make SURE you are not trusting in anything but Christ alone by Faith for your salvation and eternal pardon.

And the way I KNOW that I am doing that is by my progress in the fruit of the Spirit. That is how salvation is confirmed in a person.

Being forgiven by God, with no condition of payment added to receive that forgiveness, makes a person peaceable, kind, long suffering, humble, forgiving, merciful, thankful, and full of joy. But the person who thinks they have earned their salvation by what they do is signified by arrogance, and harsh treatment of others who need to be as good as they are by doing and believing what they do. That's why the signifying mark of salvation through the forgiveness of sins apart from the merit of work is the fruit of the Spirit--specifically love.

47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.” (Luke 7:47 NASB)

But if we look for confirmation of a genuine salvation by grace through faith apart from works in things like accurate doctrinal beliefs, proper worship schedules and techniques, personal ministry, or harsh treatment of the body we will be drawing our confidence from a place that will deceive us as to our status with God. The evidence of salvation is seen in one's character and how the grace of God has changed a person in that regard.

5 ...make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things (the qualities listed above), you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:5-11 NIV1984)

 

[tim-from-pa]

Let's check this out with what the Lord Himself stated in John 5:

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,<sup class="versenum"> </sup>And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I haven't seen any resurrection yet.

God saves those whom He calls:

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And a person in the flesh cannot even have the desire to come to God. They do not initiate the salvation process.

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

But God is not so cruel as to not give anyone a chance.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Truth is, not everyone will be saved now. Only those called the Church is saved, and the purpose of the church is to rule and reign with Christ in the millennium. It's more than just "dying and going to heaven".

More will be saved in the Millennium.

And yet even more at the Great White Throne Judgement.

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

 

[Kidron]

But if we look for confirmation of a genuine salvation by grace through faith apart from works in things

Well, you have defined the faith + works position perfectly...
And, its always the same.
Theoretically, You understand grace, but in the end, you cant accept it as free.
Its always...."well, i know i am saved, BUT, i need to do do do and and and works works works, so that im SURE.

Well, brother, the only certainty that you are saved is when you know you cant save yourself and you stop trying and relax and let God prevail over your opinion.
Once you get that, then you will never ever again put any trust in anything you do., and you will only put your trust in the one who saved you.

Salvation is really not that complicated.
You take Jesus and God takes you.
Thats it.
Everything else is unacceptable to God no matter how hard you try to "live it" to be saved or to stay saved.

"but, doesn't the bible to say we are to "be holy as he is holy, and to present our bodies a living sacrifice, and to flee youthful lusts, and to mortify our members, and that faith without works is dead"?
Yep.
And none of that has anything to do with SALVATION, as SALVATION is not of yourself, it is a GIFT.
Salvation is God's righteousness being attributed to you based on what Jesus did.
You get no credit for any of this, no matter how hard you try to earn it.
There are no nail prints in your hands or feet, and no thorn marks in your brow, and you are of yourself not able to die sinless.
So, let it go.
Stop trying to be good enough to be accepted by God, as you cant.
You blew it long ago, and its blown up.
Its over.
And that is where Christ comes in shedding all his blood to restore it all back for you.
And only HE can .
You cant.





K

 

[Kidron]

Let's check this out with what the Lord Himself stated in John 5:

I haven't seen any resurrection yet.


well, if you and i die, then when the resurrection of the dead occurs, we can be in it..........however, as for me, i want to be alive when he comes for his body..

God saves those whom He calls:

And a person in the flesh cannot even have the desire to come to God. They do not initiate the salvation process.


Thats right..........and as Paul said, "its by the foolishness of preaching that a person will feel the convicting power of the Holy Spirit and right there, they have the opportunity to come or not...its up to them........as "God would that all men be saved".....and that means the call is to "all men"......and that "God so loved the world that he sent his son"....and the world, includes everyone...
See,...the reason Jesus told his disciples to "go into all the world and preach the gospel", is because he wants everyone to have the option of CHOICE, and this way no one can blame God later...
See, if God chose some and damned others, then he is not just and would have no right to judge them, as they had no choice..
So, its best not to get into the "predestined elect" nonsense, as this has nothing to do with Salvation, but only to do with a cult's misinterpretation because they have not the ability to read.

But God is not so cruel as to not give anyone a chance.

Everyone thats breathing who is over 7 or 8 years old, has every day a chance to be saved.....and many are, and many more will be, as the call is out, and if they respond, then that settles it in eternity.
Problem is, not all will respond, however, this is not up to God, ...its up to the hearer who is given the gospel and ither reacts towards it in faith or reacts against it in pride...

Truth is, not everyone will be saved now. Only those called the Church is saved, and the purpose of the church is to rule and reign with Christ in the millennium. It's more than just "dying and going to heaven".


Well, my thread is not an attempt to teach Christian eschatology....

Its just a reality check Thread....which is pretty obvious by the title..



And yet even more at the Great White Throne Judgement.



I have some news for you, and you can tell this to your Pastor.
If you die unsaved, you dont get a 2nd chance.
If you did, there would be no reason to get saved now, and we could all wait till after we are dead.
Do you understand what i just told you?
You need to think about that..
See, no one would end up in hell, if we all got a 2nd chance after we died, as noone would reject Christ when they are standing there looking at him and a White Throne...

And one more thing.
You do read your bible.........and believe it.....right?
Revelation 20:11 and beyond?
It says that the books are opened, including the "book of Life".
And the bible tells you that if your/our name is not in it, you are going to hell like a bullet to burn like a torch and it wont stop until God dies, and he's not going to die.
So, the reason a person's name is not found in the book of life is because they rejected CHRIST while they were breathing then they die in their sins according to Jesus,= they are LOST, and no 2nd chance is given at any judgment seat or throne.........EVER.
Not gonna happen.
You take Christ here, or you face judgement there.
Christ did not shed his blood here, so that you can play with it and wait for your next opportunity when you meet him in the afterlife..
He died here, and we accept it here or God rejects us THERE.....period.
You are going to ither meet God as your Father or as your judge and this is decided WHILE you are breathing, and not after you stop.

...........




K

 

[tim-from-pa]

I have some news for you, and you can tell this to your Pastor.
If you die unsaved, you dont get a 2nd chance.

I never said anything about a second chance. I said that a person gets their chance when the Lord gives them the chance be it now or later.

The feasts of the Lord are shadows of things to come, and lays out the redemptive work of Christ. Guess what? We're just past Pentecost and into the summer season. There's 4 more yet to come and the best part is yet to be. It does not end with Pentecost. That's not the only harvest.

And the bible tells you that if your/our name is not in it, you are going to hell like a bullet to burn like a torch and it wont stop until God dies, and he's not going to die.

That's the biggest crock I've ever heard. I think you're the one needing a reality check. The Book of Life would not be opened unless there were some in it. This Judgement are for all those who never had the chance as well. Time to stop the fear-mongering. The fate of the wicked is that they will perish in the lake of fire. You know, all burned up and put out.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Well, you have defined the faith + works position perfectly...
And, its always the same.
Theoretically, You understand grace, but in the end, you cant accept it as free.
Its always...."well, i know i am saved, BUT, i need to do do do and and and works works works, so that im SURE.

Well, brother, the only certainty that you are saved is when you know you cant save yourself and you stop trying and relax and let God prevail over your opinion.
Once you get that, then you will never ever again put any trust in anything you do., and you will only put your trust in the one who saved you.

Salvation is really not that complicated.
You take Jesus and God takes you.
Thats it.
Everything else is unacceptable to God no matter how hard you try to "live it" to be saved or to stay saved.

"but, doesn't the bible to say we are to "be holy as he is holy, and to present our bodies a living sacrifice, and to flee youthful lusts, and to mortify our members, and that faith without works is dead"?
Yep.
And none of that has anything to do with SALVATION, as SALVATION is not of yourself, it is a GIFT.
Salvation is God's righteousness being attributed to you based on what Jesus did.
You get no credit for any of this, no matter how hard you try to earn it.
There are no nail prints in your hands or feet, and no thorn marks in your brow, and you are of yourself not able to die sinless.
So, let it go.
Stop trying to be good enough to be accepted by God, as you cant.
You blew it long ago, and its blown up.
Its over.
And that is where Christ comes in shedding all his blood to restore it all back for you.
And only HE can .
You cant.





K

Believe me, I know what salvation by grace through faith apart from works is. It's just that the Bible really does teach us that there is a way to know you are really partaking in that salvation. One of the places it says this is in the 2 Peter 1 passage I shared. Another is in Hebrews 6, and still another in 1 John 3. And to a lesser extent in James 2.

These was given for our encouragement, so that when our deceitful hearts condemn us we can know that we really are truly at peace with God (if we really are) in the way that he says you must be--through no merit of our own workings, but by faith in Christ, all by itself. I think any honest Christian will tell you they've wondered if they are really at peace with God in salvation at one time or another. God has told us how we can know if we really are saved despite the interference of human feelings and logic that might try to persuade us otherwise.

I don't think even you would argue that many people claim to be saved by faith apart from works as is so vigorously preached in our churches, but who probably are not. The Bible helps us know if we are one of those or not so we can remedy the situation with a genuine faith that really does confirm itself in a person.

It's so much fun being here (mostly alone) in the middle of the conflicting extemes of doctrine in the church. But that is where the truth is usually found. It's no different for this matter.

 

[Kidron]

I never said anything about a second chance. I said that a person gets their chance when the Lord gives them the chance be it now or later.

No one gets a "change" after they die.
Whomever taught you this, you need to escape from....asap..


The feasts of the Lord are shadows of things to come, and lays out the redemptive work of Christ.


The "redemptive work of Christ, was finished on the cross and sealed by his resurrection........Its a done deal, and its offered freely to anyone who is alive....who can hear the Gospel and receive it by faith....
If they reject Christ and the gospel now, while they are alive and until they die, then God will reject them eternally after they die as they have rejected the only way he can forgive them....



That's the biggest crock I've ever heard. I think you're the one needing a reality check. The Book of Life would not be opened unless there were some in it.

Actually the biggest crock you ever heard was that you or anyone gets a 2nd chance to be saved after they die.
Now THAT is a master crock.
And regarding the "book of Life"......read the verse and put down your commentary....ok?
The verse says that if names ARE >NOt FOUND< IN IT...
Got that?
That is telling you that there ARE NAMES IN IT, right now.
Every single person who has ever trusted Christ for salvation or ever will, is in the book.





K

...................

 

[tim-from-pa]

No one gets a "change" after they die.
Whomever taught you this, you need to escape from....asap..

I think you mean "chance" not "change". What about people before the NT timeframe or people who never heard the gospel? What happens to them?

The feasts of the Lord speak of different harvests of people. Yes, there is one time in history that Christ died, but it is applied when he calls a person. I'm surprised someone who claims to live in Israel don't see that, considering the holy days and all.

Actually the biggest crock you ever heard was that you or anyone gets a 2nd chance to be saved after they die.

There you go putting words into my mouth again. I never said a second chance. It very well may be that some are called today, and if they reject that call, then yes, they are judged as the wicked. That's the only chance they get. "Today is a day of salvation..." But others may not have it right now because they were not called yet.

Again, the church is to rule and reign with Christ in the Millennium. Their purpose is to be priests and Kings. They are to teach the people. If there is no salvation after Christ returns, then what's the point of teaching and ruling?

 

[Kidron]

. What about people before the NT timeframe or people who never heard the gospel? What happens to them?


Why are you trying to discuss other dispensations and so forth?
Cant you just stay on track?
Listen, i can answer the "what happens to those who never heard it", and i can talk to you about all sorts of hypothetical questions that dodge the question that is my Thread, but maybe we can instead just stay on topic.
I hope this is ok;)



The feasts of the Lord speak of different harvests of people. Yes, there is one time in history that Christ died, but it is applied when he calls a person. I'm surprised someone who claims to live in Israel don't see that, considering the holy days and all.


Yes, my birthday this year was on Pentecost.
And why are you trying to define the Grace of God by worrying about Jewish feasts and Holy Days?
Listen........a gentile,..........are you a gentile?........needs not to be concerned about Jewish feasts.......ok?
See Acts 15:10,24 tells you not to try to wear this yoke of Laws and feasts, as its not for you as a gentile, and it explains that to try to cause someone to worry about all that stuff is to SUBVERT them.
So, dont do that.
What we are to deal with, (as you are very interested in Jewish Old Testament feasts), is Acts 15:28.


There you go putting words into my mouth again. I never said a second chance. It very well may be that some are called today, and if they reject that call, then yes, they are judged as the wicked. That's the only chance they get. "Today is a day of salvation..." But others may not have it right now because they were not called yet.


humm,
for some reason i thought you were the person who had stated that at the Grt White Throne a Christ rejecting person gets the opportunity to be saved.



Again, the church is to rule and reign with Christ in the Millennium. Their purpose is to be priests and Kings. They are to teach the people. If there is no salvation after Christ returns, then what's the point of teaching and ruling?


Well, u are a Priest already., and ive not said anything about salvation or the lack of it for those who are here when Christ returns to Jerusalem.
Thats another Thread.
My thread is strictly and i mean strictly discussing one simple topic.
Are you, right now.... trusting in CHRIST ALONE and nothing else for you salvation.....or not.
Just ask yourself that question, is all i asked in this Thread.

So, if we can stay on that topic would be the best of all possible solutions, tim-from-pa


thx,



K

..................

 

[Roof]

Ive often found it curious when i ask a person who says they are a Christian, "are you a Christian"....they will say......"yes, im a Catholic, or yes, im a Baptist, or yes, im a Pentecostal, or "yes, i grew up in the church, or yes, im a Church of God"....

But i didnt ask you what denomination you affiliate with, i asked you, "are you a Christian".

I usually answer with a simple yes but the other person never stops with a simple yes.

 

[Kidron]

I usually answer with a simple yes but the other person never stops with a simple yes.

Good answer.....
And if i asked you if your are trusting in Christ alone for your salvation, and you said...."yes, absolutely", i would stop right there, tho if you were friendly, i might want t to pray with you.
The reason i do this is because everyone has a life and every life has some prayer needs, and so, i would want to agree with you for specific needs you have so that you get them answered.
If there is anything better then answered prayer, i wouldn't know what it would be, as nothing is as amazing as when the Father of Glory, the God of all creation, steps into your situation....and solves it perfectly in a way you cant do it yourself so that you have no choice but to realize that God is for you, he is listening to you, and he wants to help because he is so very interested in seeing you happy and blessed and prosperous and full of the Joy of the Lord.
Prayers are answered because we trust him to answer them, but also because he wants to help.
Thats his job and his #1 delight other then when someone becomes a part of his family.
God's job is to help., and he is the best of the best when it comes to helping.
Who else do you know that can step into any situation that is an emergency and is hopeless and recreate it so that everyone is happy again.??
Only God can make everything ok again.
He is the final answer for everything.
He's a good God and he's good all the time.
No one loves you as unconditionally as God loves you.




K

 

[for_his_glory]

I trust in all that is Christ and all of Gods promises as I apply His word to my life to see Christ work in me and through me who is my faith that I have run this race here on earth to be pleasing to the Father and hear those glorious words of Christ saying "Well done though good and faithful servant".

I might stumble and fall from grace at times when I allow flesh to take over the Spirit, but soon pick myself up and allow Christ to dust me off and make my path straight again. Grace pardons us, mercy loves us because God knows our imperfections.

 

[Former Christian]

My God Jehovah.

And my Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

FC

 

[tim-from-pa]

Yes, my birthday this year was on Pentecost.
And why are you trying to define the Grace of God by worrying about Jewish feasts and Holy Days?
Listen........a gentile,..........are you a gentile?........needs not to be concerned about Jewish feasts.......ok?
See Acts 15:10,24 tells you not to try to wear this yoke of Laws and feasts, as its not for you as a gentile, and it explains that to try to cause someone to worry about all that stuff is to SUBVERT them.
So, dont do that.
What we are to deal with, (as you are very interested in Jewish Old Testament feasts), is Acts 15:28.

God's grace was prophesied in the feasts. That's a straight fact. Just setting the (prophetic) record straight. Otherwise, what's the point in the bible on mentioning them in the OT and NT?

I'm a Gentile. I'm also descended from the house (tribe) of Joseph. That's what Josephites are--- to become a great nation and a commonwealth of nations with a Davidic descendent ruling over them for all generations until Christ comes to take that throne on this Earth (Genesis 48:19, Psalms 89:4,36-37).

Nobody's trying to subvert anyone. I just find God is ingenious portraying his plan of salvation by the feasts --- that's a fact. It's astronomically fixed. The sun tells the days, the moon the months, and the stars the years and the start of the year agriculturally by the barley. If the feasts were not important, then Christ is vain for Christ is our "Passover" Lamb. So by virtue of people believing in Christ, or supposedly so, they at least keep the feast of Passover. The Law of the Lord is no burden to me. I can't keep it perfectly, but the Spirit makes me such that I emulate that Law without trying to keep it. I go by grace whether I "succeed" or "fail".

humm,
for some reason i thought you were the person who had stated that at the Grt White Throne a Christ rejecting person gets the opportunity to be saved.

I never said that. I meant those who never had the opportunity and God was giving them the chance then. It is one of the feasts, that tells of the redemption of mankind. The 8th day of Tabernacles, at the end represents the Great White Throne Judgement. All the other feasts of the Lord speak of salvation. Why is this any different? unless.... one does not understand them.

 

[tim-from-pa]

My God Jehovah.

And my Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

FC

I am already a "former Christian" as you are. I went back to understanding the Lord more in the OT ways, and because many don't understand that, feel that it's a judgemental way or "legalistic" way to proclaim to people. No, I found God to be ingenious foreshadowing Himself in the Law, but the substance is Christ.

Most of Christianity today is what I call "worshipping Christ in a vacuum" as a Christ of one's imagination is generated from certain bible passages. But such folks are fine truncating the OT and say you are "not under the Law". Right (an excuse for acting any way they choose). The Law does not save, but the Law is God's standards nevertheless. Christ took for us the curse of the Law, so that we are free to live in Him. And in doing so, by His Spirit we in turn end up doing what was impossible in the flesh to do.

 

[Kidron]

But such folks are fine truncating the OT and say you are "not under the Law". Right (an excuse for acting any way they choose).

A Christian can indeed act any way they choose, and they do this every second they are awake.
Everyone does.
Its called "free will".
However, for the Christian we have a set of moral principles to follow as guidelines and boundaries.
Though, keeping them has nothing to do with staying saved or becoming saved..
See, you could not possibly be holy enough to save yourself before you were saved by Christ alone, and you are not possibly able to be holy enough after you are saved to keep yourself saved.
The reason you try to live holy is because you ARE SAVED and you want to please your Father, and according to his Word, you are to live a holy life... as your discipleship.
Believer, its impossible to save yourself or to keep yourself saved.
It cant be done.
You have to have a savior to be saved and YOU are not the savior.
So, dont try it.
It wont work.
You'll just be miserable.
As a matter of fact, if a person thinks that keeping God's standards, or living Holy, etc....keeps them saved, then i question their salvation, as this person is not trusting in Christ to keep them saved, and perhaps Jesus never did save them in the first place.
Its impossible to believe you can lose your salvation and at the same time believe that Christ keeps you saved.

If you believe you can lose it, you are ither trying to save yourself by your deeds or "walking the walk"... and thus you have fallen from Grace (Galatians 5:4), or you have somehow decided that Christ's atonement is not quite sufficient enough to keep you saved, so you believe you have to help him out and you'll probably run to James 2:20 (faith without works) to try to convince yourself that faith is not faith, but rather faith is works you do to be saved or to keep yourself saved.
Ither way you slice that, you are now believing "another gospel"...Galatians 1:6-9.
So, you have to be really careful not to step into a "i can lose it" false understanding of your salvation, because if you get into that type of circular reasoning, the devil will take you to his usual places in the scripture that can convince you that they are lose your salvation passages.
But they are not.......as you cant lose your salvation.
You cant be Unborn again.
And Satan will twist you into a circular pretzel with those verses if you get caught up in "losing it"..
He's the master at using scriptures to totally deceive a Christian.
So, be careful that you never come to a place where you believe you can lose your salvation.
If you get there, you will be unable to have a right relationship with the bible or with God and your entire Christian experience will be based on the idea that you have to strive to stay saved, and that is ever evolving mental misery.
And to escape from a mental trap that is based on bible scriptures, is so very very difficult, and most cant ever do it.
Dont go there.



K

 

[tim-from-pa]

Kidron, my friend. When dealing with the Law and "works" (notice the quotes) the issue isn't whether or not it's the right thing to do. The issue is whose works? Certainly not mine. If Christ's, then would not his actions thru me mirror that of the Law? That's all I'm saying, and let's just leave it at that. I think that was the crux of what "Jethro" was saying, too.

 

[Kidron]

Kidron, my friend. When dealing with the Law and "works" (notice the quotes) the issue isn't whether or not it's the right thing to do. The issue is whose works? Certainly not mine. If Christ's, then would not his actions thru me mirror that of the Law? That's all I'm saying, and let's just leave it at that. I think that was the crux of what "Jethro" was saying, too.

Hi, well, the idea of the Cross is to redeem us from the curse of the law.
The idea being, that while the law is just and holy and good, its impossible for anyone other then God to keep it.
Thats why he set it up......so that the entire world would become guilty based on their inability to meet his standards (Law), so, he came in flesh and met them for us and thereby abolished the law and installed grace.
This is the "new covenant" that is described in the "new testament".
This is why your bible tells you in John that the law came by Moses but Grace and truth came by Jesus.



K