What changed ?

[Ret]

What can YOU do , that the Jews could not do ?

John 1:17
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. KJV

In the person of Jesus Christ was given a fuller revelation of both the justice and mercy of God. Greater light on the mercy of God, gives us to extend greater mercy to our fellow man!

Praise God...Ret

 

[Imagican]

Matthew 22:

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

We can see here that Christ offered the REASON that God gave the law and sent His prophets. What is NOT offered here, (but is quite obvious), is that God's LOVE usward has ALWAYS existed. Christ came to offer the ULTIMATE example of this very love.

Christ was but the penacle of this offering. God created man to BE His children. Christ was sent to 'bring us back into HIs fold'. The parable of the 'prodigal son' pretty much 'sums it up'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Cornelius]

Hi, Cornelius -

You posted...

The blood of Christ can take away the very nature of sin, not just the action of the sin. The Jews had forgiveness with the blood of bulls and goats, but not this kind of deliverance. We’re told, (Heb.10:4) For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. So we’re very privileged to be in this New Covenant in a place where God will totally deliver us from the sin nature if we will believe Him.

I'm sure that it is just me...but I don't feel that my sin nature has been removed from me!

Or, even lessened! If anything, it has been increased. Or, maybe a better explanation would be that the temptations that I'm exposed to seem to be greater, not that I'm necessarily acting on them.

In any event, I would be the last to say that my 'sin nature' has been taken away.

In Christ,

Pogo

Let me ask you this first : Do you "feel" saved ? How do you know you are saved, other than what the Bible tells you ?

 

[Cornelius]

I'm sure that it is just me...but I don't feel that my sin nature has been removed from me!

Or, even lessened! If anything, it has been increased. Or, maybe a better explanation would be that the temptations that I'm exposed to seem to be greater, not that I'm necessarily acting on them.

In any event, I would be the last to say that my 'sin nature' has been taken away.

In Christ,

Your sin nature will not be taken away from you or any one else until we each meet Jesus face to face, see
1 John 3:2

Secondly, you feel that it has increased because Satan some times attacks us more or turns up the heat for what ever reason. Or it Could be God himself allowing Satan to do things like that to test your faith to see if you will be faithful to Him.

You are talking about : 1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.

I do not want to confuse you, but you have to see that it says "if" (not "when" like the KJV says. "if" is numerically correct and the ASV translates it.) The reason for "if" is that it is not a fact that Jesus will manifest Himself in all "Christians" only in some. This is not talking about Him coming on the clouds, its talking about Jesus manifesting IN YOU.

 

[Cornelius]

What can YOU do , that the Jews could not do ?

John 1:17
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. KJV

In the person of Jesus Christ was given a fuller revelation of both the justice and mercy of God. Greater light on the mercy of God, gives us to extend greater mercy to our fellow man!

Praise God...Ret

Fuller, or Total revelation ?

 

[Cornelius]

It also allowed the reconciliation of God and man, on earth.

Before the Word or Spirit would only work through very few men or women.

After Pentecost the Spirit fell on many, what Paul calls the gospel of reconciliation.

The sin offerings would only cover them from year to year. Now it was done once and for all.

How much of the curse did Jesus take upon Himself.

Did He achieve the following ?:Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isa 61:2 to proclaim the year of Jehovah's favor

Did He achieve "opening of the prison to them that are bound in sin? ....or did He tell us to die first and then it would be all taken away from us in the next life.

Did He succeeded in liberating those who were taken captive by the curse and sin? Or did He just do in in word and not in deed ?

 

[Cornelius]

I'm sure that it is just me...but I don't feel that my sin nature has been removed from me!

Do you know that most people who are walking in faith , regarding a healing that they are trusting God for,do not FEEL healed at first ? That is why the Bible calls it FAITH. Faith is something that takes you to something that you do not yet experience.

BUT.......BUT...........you have to start in faith, before God can take you there. God cannot bring you to any of the promises by what you feel. He can only bring you there by your faith.

 

[Ret]

What can YOU do , that the Jews could not do ?

John 1:17
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. KJV

In the person of Jesus Christ was given a fuller revelation of both the justice and mercy of God. Greater light on the mercy of God, gives us to extend greater mercy to our fellow man!

Praise God...Ret

Fuller, or Total revelation ?

I believe that Jesus Christ alone has 'total' revelation of who and what God Almighty is, within the fact that Jesus Christ is the only one who is in the express image of God Almighty, the father. I also believe we will be studying this theme throughout eternity in the next life. However, Jesus gives us as much as we need of this revelation to fulfill the work He has for us to do in this life.

Hebrews 1:3
3 Who (Jesus Christ) being the brightness of his (God's) glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; KJV

Worthy discussion...Ret

 

[Cornelius]

I believe that Jesus Christ alone has 'total' revelation of who and what God Almighty is, within the fact that Jesus Christ is the only one who is in the express image of God Almighty, the father. I also believe we will be studying this theme throughout eternity in the next life. However, Jesus gives us as much as we need of this revelation to fulfill the work He has for us to do in this life.

Hebrews 1:3
3 Who (Jesus Christ) being the brightness of his (God's) glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; KJV

Worthy discussion...Ret

Thanks Ret

This is a Bible study, so here is what the Bible says about how much we have received. Look carefully , this is important stuff to think about and know :

2Pe 1:3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue;


Now we have to figure out which things were left out of "all things"
Remember Jesus IS the Word, and the Word has been given to us. ( I know people do not believe that, but that is their problem, this is a study and not about correcting the wrong beliefs of those who cannot see this, I am only agreeing with the Bible )

C

 

[Cornelius]

So Ret , a better way to word this would be: I believe Jesus IS the total revelation (not has )

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we beheld, and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life
1Jn 1:2 (and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us);
1Jn 1:3 that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you also, that ye also may have fellowship with us: yea, and our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ:

Nothing has been left out of the manifestation of Jesus as the Word. All has been given to us, but we have not yet come to a total understanding. But by faith ............we do have it all.

 

[Pogo]

Hi, Cornelius -

To your response...

Let me ask you this first : Do you "feel" saved ? How do you know you are saved, other than what the Bible tells you ?

...let me say that I definitely FEEL saved!

I am definitely a different man than I was before I answered the call of Jesus' Gospel!

I wasn't some emotional youth, impulsively responding to peer pressure.

I was a skeptical 54 year old...agnostic...I guess, is what I was. After attending different churches diligently for years, expecting different preachers to convince me that God did indeed exist, I finally had to get off of the pew, and do my own research.

Many thanks to Josh McDowell, by the way! If it weren't for the Bible, and Josh's books about the Bible, I doubt that I would be a Christian, and posting in this forum, today.

And as far as I can tell, I strictly, and truly believed, and followed, the teachings of the scriptures regarding baptism.

I had heard (and read, and studied, and researched) the Gospel preached.

I had, FINALLY, believed that the Gospel of Jesus, which I had heard, was, indeed, the truth.

I publicly confessed my belief before others.

I then publicly repented of all of my past sins, and asked for God's forgiveness, in His Son Jesus' name.

Then, I was publicly immersed in water.

So, being a stickler for details regarding becoming a Christian, I KNOW that I am a Christian!

Also, occasionally, I feel a presence with me when I'm studying the scriptures, that opens my eyes to interpretations of some passages that are different from what I've previously understood.

However...sin...still tempts me.

Also, you wrote...

Do you know that most people who are walking in faith , regarding a healing that they are trusting God for,do not FEEL healed at first ? That is why the Bible calls it FAITH. Faith is something that takes you to something that you do not yet experience.

BUT.......BUT...........you have to start in faith, before God can take you there. God cannot bring you to any of the promises by what you feel. He can only bring you there by your faith.

...and, I have to agree with you on this!

So, you are telling me that my faith is weak. Which must be the case for me in this regard.

So, how then can one measure their faith to see if it is sufficient?

And, if this is truly my problem, then doesn't this understanding conflict, somewhat, with your opening position above?

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[JoJo]

I think it's important for us to remember that no other human being should be the measuring stick for our salvation or faith. That is a personal, spiritual matter between God and self.

 

[Cornelius]

...let me say that I definitely FEEL saved!



Pogo

OK, let use a different angle then Did you feel saved BEFORE or AFTER you had faith that you were saved?

 

[Cornelius]

I think it's important for us to remember that no other human being should be the measuring stick for our salvation or faith. That is a personal, spiritual matter between God and self.

True, no human must be the measuring stick.
That is why we have the Word , so we can measure according to what It tells us.

C

 

[Pogo]

Cornelius -

It was only AFTER I stepped out in faith that Jesus is truly my savior, that I have felt safe.

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[mutzrein]

Hi Cornelius

Any comment on the post I made?

Blessings

 

[Ret]

This is a Bible study, so here is what the Bible says about how much we have received. Look carefully, this is important stuff to think about and know :

2Pe 1:3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue;

Now we have to figure out which things were left out of "all things"
Remember Jesus IS the Word, and the Word has been given to us. ( I know people do not believe that, but that is their problem, this is a study and not about correcting the wrong beliefs of those who cannot see this, I am only agreeing with the Bible )

C

Agreed, look carefully .... because 2 Pe 1:3 has already 'FIGURED OUT' and defines the 'all things'... THAT pertain unto LIFE and GODLINESS. The definition continues through the KNOWLEDGE of him that called us by his own glory and virtue;

But by faith ............we do have it all....In Jesus Christ we have all we need that pertains to LIFE and GODLINESS to accomplish the work God has CALLED us to do, and yes we have it BY FAITH!

 

[Cornelius]

Why did God find it necessary to change the sacrificial system of the Old Covenant. It forgave sins, so people could go to heaven when they died. It provided a blood covering for the people of God , just like the blood of Jesus does. So what is it that Jesus did concerning sins, that is different for Christians.

What can YOU do , that the Jews could not do ? :P

Where does the idea come from that the old covenant enabled people to go to heaven when they died?

Jesus ushered in the Kingdom of Heaven - 'the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand' scripture tells us. It was not possible, before Christ, for man to have eternal life and therefore enter the Kingdom of Heaven. This is why Christ came. To defeat sin, the consequence of which is death.

He came, died, defeated sin and death, rose and returned to the Father - that man might have life.

Forgive me, I skipped it because it will take us off topic. In my language we have a saying: A person who has understanding, needs half a word. (Meaning: I hoped you will get the understanding of the gist of what I meant, without my explaining "heaven" first.) I said "heaven" to make the point that the Old Covenant did not send them to hell, or they were not "lost" . Abraham did not find himself in hell.

OK, so lets be specific and call it ......paradise. The "holding place" before Jesus came to take them to heaven.

For this study, I want to look at what Jesus did, that the Old Covenant did not do.
blessings
C

 

[Cornelius]

Cornelius -

It was only AFTER I stepped out in faith that Jesus is truly my savior, that I have felt safe.

In Christ,

Pogo

OK, so you will know the "method" then. First faith, then feeling.

Now you have to see that this principle works in everything that we want concerning the promises. First faith, then manifestation. This should give all of us hope, because Jesus said:Mat 17:20 .....If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed....... nothing shall be impossible unto you.

So either Jesus lied or told the truth. NOTHING does not include some things. NOTHING shall be impossible IF you have faith.

Now we must decide if NOTHING excludes us walking without sin. IF Jesus really came to take sin away and not just to forgive it. Did Jesus really remove the curse 100% or just part of it. Did He really heal us at the cross or just some of us. Did HE really provide all and everything that we need at the cross, or just a little as He pleased. Did He finish the job ? or did He do half a job?

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up his spirit.

Do we call it "The GOOD news" or do we call it "The SEMI-Good News"

If what I am saying is true (and it is) then the church has taken the people of God into bondage and taught them another gospel.

C

 

[Cornelius]

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up his spirit.

This verse should make us dance and this verse must make us weep with a thankful heart. Once we realize WHAT is finished.

Once we see the amazing work that Jesus did. How He paid for everything so that we can again walk like Adam walked in the beginning" :without the sin nature. (not without temptation) Remember Adam and Eve were tempted while they were without their sin nature.

Please hear me now: Temptation is not sin.
Giving in to that temptation is sin. Jesus came so that you and I could again say no to temptation.

Praise God.

Remember, first faith, then manifestation.

blessings
C