What Day Was Jesus Really Crucified On ?

[tim-from-pa]

Say Vic, this thread is filling up fast again. We won't even miss those posts that accidentally got dumped. :-D

 

[tim-from-pa]

Ok, if you know anything about me, it is that I am hardheaded. I did some research, and came up with an article, where the man has done his homework. It explains all the days sounding the crucifixion, and pretty well leaves no argument for a Thursday crucifixion. And a few other interesting ideas thrown in also. Read it carefully, so you understand all that it says. Its long so you might! want to bring your lunch.

Yes, I agree with this article pertaining to the feast days. However, the person who wrote this clearly indicated a Wednesday crucifixion as I have been doing. Are you implying you now went over to believing that day of the week since earlier you stated it was on Friday?

 

[samuel]

No he is not presenting a Wensday crucifixion, you did not read it close. He indicated Palm Sunday as the day Christ rode into Jerusalem, and was crucified four days later.

That would put the last supper in the eve of Thursday, exactly as it should be. We would call it Wednesday night. He was arrested shortly after, and put on the cross at the third hour of the day Thursday.

If you follow his time line, you will see that by this he fulfilled all of those feast days. The problem we have is much of the Bible through the Gospels, concerns the Jewish people. We have to apply Jewish principles to understand it.

So my agreement is for Thursday.

 

[tim-from-pa]

He said, and I quote:

His body [His flesh] was laid in the tomb just before sunset, when the "High Sabbath" of the Feast of Unleavened Bread began. His body laid in the tomb for the first three days of this feast, from the 15th through the 17th of Nisan.

Since He believes that Nisan 18th fell on Sunday, then it stands to reason that the 14th would have been on Wednesday. He clearly advocates a Wednesday crucifixion.

 

[samuel]

This was clearly demonstrated by Paul when he wrote, "For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us." [1 Cor. 5:7]. Not only did Jesus fulfill this feast symbolically, but also quite literally. On the 10th of Nisan, Palm Sunday, Jesus rode down the mount of Olives on a colt. He was crucified four days later on Passover.

Four days 14th, Thursday. You are not looking at this day, night thing right. I had some trouble with it at first, untill I realized it does not even closely resemble the way we look at days and nights. A night is a night, and is separate from days. Like Christmas eve, is not Christmas, but it follows the eve. Its really confusing, and takes some readjusting, but once you get it, it comes out to be Thursday.

So don't complain, at least I met you half way.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Read This:

CRUCIFIXION WEDNESDAY?
By James Akin
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9903chap.asp

 

[samuel]

I always went along with tradition, and accepted Friday even realizing there were problems making three days, and nights out of it.

After I read this thread I did quite a bit of research, not counting the article I posted. Even in Matthew's gospel, Pilots words reveal it was the day of Passover when Christ was crucified. A Thursday Crucifixion removes any problems, from the three days nights in the tomb. I cant say Wednesday, because that would result in 4 nights, just as bad as Fridays 2.

 

[Vic C.]

Say Vic, this thread is filling up fast again. We won't even miss those posts that accidentally got dumped. :-D

I see! Maybe "we" need some lessons in math. 8-)

We can all agree that Palm Sunday is the correct day for His entry into Jerusalem. That day would equate to Nisan 10, the day the Jews were to procure their Passover lamb. Now we know, per Exo 12:6, they were to keep their lamb for four days, Nisan 14. In Jewish idiom, reference to a day can mean a portion of a day. So lets count (remembering their day starts and ends at sunset)...

The 10th. to the 11th. (Sat. sunset to Sun. sunset) day one; the 11th. to the 12th. (Sun. sunset to Mon. sunset) day two; the 12th. to the 13th. ( Mon. sunset to Tues, sunset) day three; the 13th. to the 14th. (Tues. sunset to Wed. sunset) day four.

He was taken off the cross sometime after the ninth hour, as per Mat 27:46. They were in a rush to lay Him in the tomb before sunset because it was the day of preparation for Passover and the Sabbath (which begins at sunset) was drawing near. We know from John 19:31 it was a High Sabbath. We also know by proper translation of Matthew 28:1, that there were two Sabbaths that week.

So now realizing He was laid in the tomb by sunset Wed., we can count the days He was in the heart of the earth (the grave). Jesus said this in Mat 12:40. In Jewish idiom, three days and three nights is more literal than just saying three days or three nights. So...

Wed. sunset to Thurs. sunset makes one day and night. Thurs. sunset to Friday sunset is the second day and night. Friday sunset to Sat. sunset is the third day and night.

All the Bible tells us is that before dawn, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene found an empty tomb.

John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

My conclusion is He was resurrected right after the weekly Sabbath ended, which would be the beginning of the first say of the week. We can also assume the woman wouldn't have enough light left to prepare the body if they left for the tomb when Sabbath ended. So they waited until the following morning. Totally logical.

Laying aside preconceived traditional beliefs, it's not that hard to see.

 

[Vic C.]

CC, I read your link. It doesn't jive with me. It also diverts the reader's attention from the topic at hand to calling us anti-catholics and by pointing to the fact that many noncatholics point to Easter as being pagan in nature, a different topic altogether.

Then there's this:

In the Bible, parts of time units were frequently counted as wholes. Thus a king might be said to have reigned for two years, even if he reigned for only fourteen months. In the same way, a day and a night does not mean a period of twenty-four hours. It can refer to any portion of a day coupled with any portion of a night. The expression "three days and three nights" could be used as simply a slightly hyperbolic way of referring to "three days."

Now, I lost all my research and links to all this when the original posts disappeared. Bummer... I'm not about to look it all up again, but for the sake of discovering the truth, it's worth it for the skeptic to do some research. Simply though, a day can be a portion of a day; a night can be a portion of a night, but when combined, day and night, it becomes more descriptive, more literal. Three days and three nights is a prophecy, if it isn't true, then it's a false prophecy.

I wouldn't want to be the one suggesting Jesus is a false prophet. :-?

 

[tim-from-pa]

We can all agree that Palm Sunday is the correct day for His entry into Jerusalem.

Actually Vic, I don't agree with that one either. I believe he entered the 10th day of the month. Actually, what took place as "palm Sunday" was probably late Friday afternoon the 9th as Mark was saying it was getting dark after he looked around the temple area. This would assure us that the Lamb of God was there in time for the entire 10th day of the month (a weekly Sabbath) by sundown.

When we read the bible, we see that it took place 5 days before the Passover, i.e. the evening of the 9th going onto the 10th. If the evening of the 14th would have been on a Friday, then the 10th would have been Sunday-Monday, and that's where that is derived from. What always amused me is that the church counted those days as full days, but the 3 days and 3 nights were considered partial days.

What can I say? A prime example of try to make the theological square peg fit into the round hole.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

In the Bible, parts of time units were frequently counted as wholes. Thus a king might be said to have reigned for two years, even if he reigned for only fourteen months. In the same way, a day and a night does not mean a period of twenty-four hours. It can refer to any portion of a day coupled with any portion of a night. The expression "three days and three nights" could be used as simply a slightly hyperbolic way of referring to "three days."

.....a day can be a portion of a day; a night can be a portion of a night, but when combined, day and night, it becomes more descriptive, more literal.

To you, perhaps. But maybe not to a first century Jew, who had a completely different dialect than you.

Three days and three nights is a prophecy, if it isn't true, then it's a false prophecy.
I wouldn't want to be the one suggesting Jesus is a false prophet. :-?

Jewish hyperbole is all through the NT. Like, when it says that "all Judea" came out to see John the Baptist. Now, no one really thinks that every single person in Judea came out to see him. Thats silly. Its not false, its just hyperbole. You are reading it to litteralisticaly.

And you shouldnt be so sensitive about what they say at the link I provided. Its a Catholic apologetics site, aimed at Catholics. Try to look past that stuff and focus on ther information.

 

[RadicalReformer]

If memory serves, the Hebrew word for day "yom" will always been a literal 24 hour period when it is preceded with a numeric description (ie: first day, one day, etc).

I believe that might help with the understanding of the "Jewish" use of the word "yom" or 'day'.

 

[Vic C.]

Actually Vic, I don't agree with that one either. I believe he entered the 10th day of the month. Actually, what took place as "palm Sunday" was probably late Friday afternoon the 9th as Mark was saying it was getting dark after he looked around the temple area. This would assure us that the Lamb of God was there in time for the entire 10th day of the month (a weekly Sabbath) by sundown.

Tim, help me do some research here. The Hebrews were commanded to take their lamb home for four days. According to above, we have them doing this on a Sabbath. Can they do this without breaking Sabbath laws? Or were they allowed to get their lamb a day earlier? :smt017

I'm reading this right now.

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/jewish_feasts/js010.htm

 

[Vic C.]

Well, that link didn't reveal anything. 8-)

 

[tim-from-pa]

Actually Vic, I don't agree with that one either. I believe he entered the 10th day of the month. Actually, what took place as "palm Sunday" was probably late Friday afternoon the 9th as Mark was saying it was getting dark after he looked around the temple area. This would assure us that the Lamb of God was there in time for the entire 10th day of the month (a weekly Sabbath) by sundown.

Tim, help me do some research here. The Hebrews were commanded to take their lamb home for four days. According to above, we have them doing this on a Sabbath. Can they do this without breaking Sabbath laws? Or were they allowed to get their lamb a day earlier? :smt017

I'm reading this right now.

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/jewish_feasts/js010.htm

The tenth day is the tenth day, whether a Sabbath or not (c.f. Matthew 12:11)---- same with circumcision. In actuality, I believe the Lord rode in late on the 9th before sundown if the waving of the palm branches bother you, and then he went in and out of the city daily as the bible says (Bethany next door)

We have to consider where the idea of "Palm Sunday" got started. If we take Scripture and read in John 12:1:

Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.

I realize he could have gotten there before supper, but the implication is later in the day 6 days before Passover i.e 8th-9th of Nisan. Then we read in vv12-13,

On the next day [i.e. 5 days before Passover] much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

That would be 9th-10th exactly 5 days before the crucifixion, so that the Lamb of God was officially recognized (as by the waving of the palm branches) as present on time before the 10th of the month so that he could be inspected from then on for the entire day of the 10th.

Now, if we believe in a traditional Friday (Nisan 14th) crucifixion, then 5 days before would be Sunday Later in the day on Nisan 9th, and hence Palm Sunday.

Therefore, it does not pay to take such a tradition, and make the crucifixion fit around those ideas. Some may want to make it a Thursday crucifixion. Well, that's at least better than Friday, but the we still have 3 problems with this:

1. For the events to fit the feast days, the Month of Nisan would have had to start of a Friday, making Hoshanna Rabbah in the autumn on a Sabbath. That day involves the beating of the willow branches and the calendar was adjusted so that this was not the case.
2. Thursday to Saturday night is still not 3 days and 3 nights.
3. There's two consecutive Sabbaths (Friday High Day and Saturday weekly). When would the women have time between them to buy and to prepare the spices as I pointed out in an earlier post?

 

[Vic C.]

I don't know why you keep bringing up Friday, Tim. I never mentioned Friday. Friday is out of the question.

All I'm trying to figure out is, if Nissan 10 fell on a Sabbath, when were the Jews allowed to get their Passover lamb? Is there a provision to procure it a day earlier? Nissan 10 usually falls on our Mon., Wed., or Sat. if I remember correctly, so a Sat. Nissan 10 was quite common.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I don't know why you keep bringing up Friday, Tim. I never mentioned Friday. Friday is out of the question.

All I'm trying to figure out is, if Nissan 10 fell on a Sabbath, when were the Jews allowed to get their Passover lamb? Is there a provision to procure it a day earlier? Nissan 10 usually falls on our Mon., Wed., or Sat. if I remember correctly, so a Sat. Nissan 10 was quite common.

The answer is yes. As a matter of fact, this is a Sabbath in itself (like the other feast days)

Here's a link:

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/jewish_feasts/js010.htm

For that matter, Jesus could have rode into Jerusalem on Nisan 10, even on a Sabbath. However, I think he got there as the previous day was ending so that he'd be there as their lamb so-to-speak starting the entire day of the 10th. If you notice, Jesus was never late in fulfilling the other feasts. This one's no exception; I doubt if he showed up DURING the 10th day and be absent part of it earlier.

I kept bringing up Friday crucifixion to show that the "Palm Sunday" event was based on that (i.e 5 days earlier) I already know that you do not accept Friday, but from what I gathered, it seemed to me that you still accepted "Palm Sunday" and I was merely showing you that this is where that idea came from.

Since he was crucified Wednesday, it should be more like "Palm Friday" probably later in the day as he entered Jerusalem to be there by nightfall for the 10th. And even if this happened on the Sabbath a day later, that does nothing to the chronology of the crucifixion events. But again, I do believe the Lord was there the whole day of the 10th as prophecy demanded.

 

[Vic C.]

Tim, did you read my post above, the one where I posted a link?

... I'm reading this right now.

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/jewish_feasts/js010.htm

:fadein:

 

[Vic C.]

...The answer is yes. As a matter of fact, this is a Sabbath in itself (like the other feast days)

Yes, the "original" Nissan 10th. did fall on a weekly Sabbath. Just as you were posting this, I got the answer I was looking for.

Origins of Shabbat HaGadol

According to the Talmud, the Exodus from Egypt occurred on Thursday, Nisan 15th, thus making the 10th of that month a Shabbat. It was on this great Shabbat that the LORD commanded the families of Israel to obtain a lamb for sacrifice and to bring it to their homes. This was to be Korban Pesach - the Passover lamb - to be sacrificed on Nisan 14th.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holida ... gadol.html

Further proof that a Wed. crucifixion is the most Biblical explanation. So it was possible and most likely permissible for Jesus to enter Jerusalem on a Sabbath in order to fulfill prophecy.

 

[manichunter]

When was the Resurrection

Day of the Resurrection and Crucifixion
Neither day

Everything related to God dealing with the salvation of man is tied to a system of dates that foreshadow, fulfill, then repeat themselves in a concrete chain of events that give believers insight into God's plan for man. Everything symbolism has definite meaning that is critical to the life of a believer, ignorance of such items leave a believer venerable and unsatisfied.
Jesus was sacrificed as the Passover Lamb. This was observed in a Holy Day established God (Feast of Unleavened Bread). The Feast of Unleavened Bread was a threefold system of Passover, Unleavened Bread, and First Fruits. This all begins with understanding that the Biblical day begins at sundown, not 12 mid night in Roman solar calendar.

1Jesus enters Jerusalem on the 10th day of Nissan which fulfills Exodus 12:3-7 as the Lamb being picked on the 10th day and killed four days later at twilight.

2.Passover begins on the 14 day of Nissan (Tuesday for Gentiles) at sundown when Jesus ate the Passover Meal with His disciples (Luke 22:15,16). Passover was not a public convocation, but a private at home event led by the head of a household, hence why Jesus observed it as such.

3.Jesus is taken captive during the same night and tried on the 14th day of Nissan Tuesday.

4.Jesus is crucified and dies at the 9th hour (3pm) on 14th day of Nissan (Wednesday for Gentiles) still on the Day of Passover. (Matt 27:50-55)

5.Jesus had to put in the grave immediately because the Sabbath was approaching and people could not be buried on the Sabbath; but this was no regular Sabbath, this was one of the High Sabbaths (Feast of Unleavened Bread). Feast of Unleavened Bread was a public event every male was command to attend and centered on the Temple and lead by the Priest. Ex 12:14-17

6.Feast of Unleavened Bread began on 15th of Nissan (Wednesday for Gentiles)at sundown but was proceeded by a day of Preparation which was assigned to all regular Sabbaths and High Sabbaths (Luke 23-53-56). This preparation Day was on the same day as the day of Passover.

7.Jesus stayed in the grave exactly as Jonah stayed in the big fish full three nights and three full days for a seventy two hours period. (Matt 12:38-40) This covers Wednesday night to Thursday day, Thursday night to Friday day, and Friday night to lastly Saturday day in Gentile days. This is a full three days and nights and flat three day period. The traditional belief is that He died on Friday and was resurrected on Sunday; however, this does not cover a complete period of three days and three nights. The best you get is three days and two nights if you do some crazy math.

8.The regular weekly Sabbath during the same week began on the 17th of Nissan Friday at sundown (Ex 20:8-10) and ended Saturday evening right before sundown. Jesus was resurrected before sundown on Saturday evening. He never stayed in the grave until sundown which would have ran into Sunday and made his stay in the grave 4 days.

Any question for more details, hit me back.
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