What Do We Learn From Job?

[elijah23]

I was wondering what lesson, or lessons, we learn from Job.

Perhaps one is that rather than spending a lot of time complaining to the Lord, we should spend as much time as we can listening to his voice, since he is always trying to lead us to a happier life.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I was wondering what lesson, or lessons, we learn from Job.

Perhaps one is that rather than spending a lot of time complaining to the Lord, we should spend as much time as we can listening to his voice, since he is always trying to lead us to a happier life.

There are certainly more lessons to take from Job than I will ever teach on but the one that stands out most in my life is that we need to learn what it is to be considered worthy. I am in the final stage of Multiple Sclerosis which began as a result of Diet Cokes in Vietnam, in the mid and late sixties. The doctors, bless their hearts, have given up trying to help my condition and are just trying to keep the pain levels down.

And in spite of all this, my LORD, has used me to lead hundreds of folks, around the world, to the foot of the cross at a time when it is reported that the average is 3 and a half confessions of faith per year per local church. It can be hard to do but I have thanked and praised the LORD for His use of me for the past 21 years and He has used me in a mighty manner I could never have imagined.

We are taught, in Paul's letter to the Roman believers, that all things work to the good of God and His purposes and Job is a great illustration of that. Were it not for this one record of a man's life, I might never have understood that God was blessing me by allowing Satan to afflict me.

 

[Strangelove]

Ya thats what I was gonna say too. God is in total control. He allows bad things to happen to us via satan who is on His leash.

God Bless you Taylor.

You say your condition is due to Aspartame in Coke or some other chemical?

It would make a fascinating thread. Was this just a problem in Cokes in Vietnam in the 60's or worldwide? And is it still a danger? Hope I'm not out of line but I'd love to talk about it.

 

[elijah23]

Ya thats what I was gonna say too. God is in total control. He allows bad things to happen to us via satan who is on His leash.

Why does the Lord allow suffering to someone who apparently has done nothing to deserve it?

 

[whitney]

Why does the Lord allow suffering to someone who apparently has done nothing to deserve it?

To prove our faith




1 Peter 1 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials,
7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ:
8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 

[Strangelove]

Why does the Lord allow suffering to someone who apparently has done nothing to deserve it?

Because it is His divine will. It serves a purpose in his plan. Read Taylor's testimony.

 

[Adstar]

Why does the Lord allow suffering to someone who apparently has done nothing to deserve it?

I see suffering as just being normal in a world full of faulty human beings. It is like part of the landscape of human life. Troubles and suffering hit everywhere. All we can ask for is the God given strength and peace of mind that will get us through any of the suffering that will come our way.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[stovebolts]

When you look at Job, there is actually more than meets the eye. It's a very hard book to comprehend and decipher.

First off, Job is a Gentile, not a Jew as are his friends.
Second, Job represents the Pius Religious elite outside of Torah. God doesn't want religion, he wants relationship.
Third, until Job's infliction, Job's rewards were on earth, not in heaven.

From the offset, we see that it is good to have friends like the friends of Job, but we should not act like Job does to his friends.

We see his friends come from afar and when they realize it is he who is sitting in the ashes, they mourn intensely as they settle in to 7 days of silence as they try to comfort him.

But how does Job respond? Is he grateful that he has such good friends to console him? No, as his religious piety stands in his way.

 

[elijah23]

Because it is His divine will. It serves a purpose in his plan. Read Taylor's testimony.

One might wonder, though, if one walks closely enough with the Lord, if one might avoid life’s painful situations.

 

[pjt]

When you look at Job, there is actually more than meets the eye. It's a very hard book to comprehend and decipher.

First off, Job is a Gentile, not a Jew as are his friends.
Second, Job represents the Pius Religious elite outside of Torah. God doesn't want religion, he wants relationship.
Third, until Job's infliction, Job's rewards were on earth, not in heaven.

From the offset, we see that it is good to have friends like the friends of Job, but we should not act like Job does to his friends.

We see his friends come from afar and when they realize it is he who is sitting in the ashes, they mourn intensely as they settle in to 7 days of silence as they try to comfort him.

But how does Job respond? Is he grateful that he has such good friends to console him? No, as his religious piety stands in his way.

I have heard the theory that Job was actually a gentile but I don`t believe that. He is worshipping God, offering sacrifices and his friends are also Godly people. I believe he was Jewish, but that point is really insignificant to the story.

 

[stovebolts]

I have heard the theory that Job was actually a gentile but I don`t believe that. He is worshipping God, offering sacrifices and his friends are also Godly people. I believe he was Jewish, but that point is really insignificant to the story.

Actually, it is very significant and it's not theory, it's Biblical. Torah was given to the Jews to show them how to live the way God originally created them to live for the purpose of being a light to the nations as well as pointing the way toward the Christ.

As far as Job and his friends being gentile. Even Noah and Abraham offered sacrifices and worshiped God. All of this well before the Jewish nation emerged from Egypt.

2:11 When Job’s three friends heard about all this calamity that had happened to him, each of them came from his own country – Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite.

My memory is failing me on the specifics, but I do have a Jewish book at home which explains each of Job's friends origins from Noah, as well as Job. Perhaps I can post more on this tomorrow.

More to the point though. Do you believe Job is justified in his response to his friends that mourned with him for 7 days? Is that how God wants us to treat our true friends?

 

[pjt]

Some things I learned from Job are
1) God said Job was a "perfect and an upright man" in 1:8. When I first read that I thought "wow". God is really generous in the way He describes the people He loves. For example, David was a friend of God. John was the one Jesus loved. And Job is "perfect". So what does perfect and upright mean? I believe 1:8 explains it as to fear God and eschew evil. So I get from that if I want to be "perfect and upright" in the eyes of God, I need to fear Him and eschew evil.

2) After 3 hits of terrible loss and destruction, Job`s response was one of worship (1:20)! And this pleased God because in 2:3 God again says that Job was "perfect and upright". But this time God even adds " and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. " So what I gain from this is no matter what befalls us, our response should be one of worship and this will please God.

3) Then in Chapter 2 after Job received awful boils that had to be scraped off, his response was if we are eager to accept God`s goodness, then we have to accept His adversity too. This pleased God too because in 2:10 the Bible says in all this Job didn`t sin with his lips. So I gain from this that like Job we have to trust God when adversity falls on us. And recognize we have received lots of good so if something bad comes our way we have to receive it humbly. We can`t be like the ungrateful child that just expects candy and toys all the time and then has a fit when the parent does not give it.

4) It seems to me the turning point of despair for Job came after his wife turned on him viciously. I mean she told him to "curse God and die". That is horrible. I imagine he has been a faithful, loving, devoted, and definitely a well providing husband all these years. His wife had servants to wait on her and she probably had the finest clothes and home, yet when Job gets gross boils on him she wants no part of him. I think that would be more cruel than having a child die of natural causes. To have someone you love to tell you to die is like a knife in the heart. So right after this is when Job turns to despair. I wonder though if his wife had remained by his side, would he have fallen to despair? I tend to doubt it. The love of one person can carry another far. But the cruel words of one person can also destroy. I gain from this the power of the word. Our words can encourage or brutalize the spirit of another person. Our words can enliven or deaden another person. Therefore, we must be careful with our words to not injure another. I think this is vitally important for Christians.

5. I have many other things I gained from Job but I need to close so I will end for now with Job`s suffering had 100% nothing to do with sin. Job was completely innocent. Therefore, if we see calamity come on another person we can not so quickly conclude it is due to sin. Sometimes we simply don`t know why bad things are happening to others so sometimes it is best to not try and explain it because we are talking beyond our comprehension just like Job`s friends were doing. Of course, if we find ourselves in calamity, we should always examine ourselves to see if there is sin that could be bringing consequences to our life, but if there is no sin, sometimes we just have to accept things are going on in the spiritual realm that are far beyond our understanding and we just have to trust God even if it means we are enduring suffering for no reason.

 

[pjt]

Actually, it is very significant and it's not theory, it's Biblical. Torah was given to the Jews to show them how to live the way God originally created them to live for the purpose of being a light to the nations as well as pointing the way toward the Christ.

As far as Job and his friends being gentile. Even Noah and Abraham offered sacrifices and worshiped God. All of this well before the Jewish nation emerged from Egypt.

2:11 When Job’s three friends heard about all this calamity that had happened to him, each of them came from his own country – Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite.

My memory is failing me on the specifics, but I do have a Jewish book at home which explains each of Job's friends origins from Noah, as well as Job. Perhaps I can post more on this tomorrow.

More to the point though. Do you believe Job is justified in his response to his friends that mourned with him for 7 days? Is that how God wants us to treat our true friends?

Yes, I think Job was justified in his response. His friends we faithful in coming but totally useless in comforting. It would have been better if they had not come. Perhaps we could turn your question around and ask is the way Job`s friends tormenting him by insisting that he was the cause of his own calamity the way to treat a true friend who is suffering terribly?

 

[stovebolts]

So in the midst of our own pain and anguish, we are to strike out at the very ones who try and comfort us? This is what makes Job so intriguing as it gives us their worldview on who God is. Through the discourse of about 38 chapters, we watch them each wrestle with their understanding of who God is, and how he acts.

But back to the point. Are we to only give praise to God when God has sheltered us and blessed us?

We see that when God had blessed Job, he became a Pius religious elite. Job, was a man of this world, not the next for his reward was in this world, not the next as seen by his response to his calamity in chapter 3 as well as having over double in this world than Abraham.

God strips away Job's religious view and humbles Job and through this experience, both Job and his friends learn much about how God works in the world.

 

[Strangelove]

One might wonder, though, if one walks closely enough with the Lord, if one might avoid life’s painful situations.

Like the Apostle Paul with his illnesses, imprisonments, beatings, starvations etc?

:

 

[elijah23]

Like the Apostle Paul with his illnesses, imprisonments, beatings, starvations etc?

:

Righteousness brings peace of mind. Beatings and starvation would be unpleasant, but I haven’t yet been beaten or starved, and I am a Christian.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Ya thats what I was gonna say too. God is in total control. He allows bad things to happen to us via satan who is on His leash.

God Bless you Taylor.

You say your condition is due to Aspartame in Coke or some other chemical?

It would make a fascinating thread. Was this just a problem in Cokes in Vietnam in the 60's or worldwide? And is it still a danger? Hope I'm not out of line but I'd love to talk about it.

You could have only been out of line if I had noy opened the issue. If you wish to address the issue we'll need another string. I'll send a PM.

 

[pjt]

So in the midst of our own pain and anguish, we are to strike out at the very ones who try and comfort us? This is what makes Job so intriguing as it gives us their worldview on who God is. Through the discourse of about 38 chapters, we watch them each wrestle with their understanding of who God is, and how he acts.

But back to the point. Are we to only give praise to God when God has sheltered us and blessed us?

We see that when God had blessed Job, he became a Pius religious elite. Job, was a man of this world, not the next for his reward was in this world, not the next as seen by his response to his calamity in chapter 3 as well as having over double in this world than Abraham.

God strips away Job's religious view and humbles Job and through this experience, both Job and his friends learn much about how God works in the world.

I disagree that Job was of the "Pius religious elite" in the sense that he was like a Pharisee getting his reward here on earth. I would agree he was of the elite in that he was rich due to God`s enormous favor and blessing on Job. I do not subscribe to the "name it claim it" faith. Hence, I don`t believe God`s way of showing blessing is primarily materially but I do believe in some cases God in His providence and wisdom chooses certain people like David, Solomon, Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, or Job to bless materially. That is God`s choice and it should not be our prayer or expectation to be rich. If He chooses us then we must be thankful and generous. We see in Job that he indeed was generous which is probably one of the reasons God chose Job to bless:

" because I rescued the poor who cried for help, and the fatherless who had none to assist him." Job 29:12
"Have I not wept for those in trouble? Has not my soul grieved for the poor?" Job 30:25
"If I have denied the desires of the poor or let the eyes of the widow grow weary." Job 31:16

As for being the "Pious Religious". I would agree he was very "religious" in the positive sense of the word. He pleased God plan and simple. It says several times that he was a "perfect and upright man". God Himself said, " that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? " 1:8. "there is none like him in the earth" that is a powerful thing for God to say about a man. God is saying Job is extraordinary. He is like Noah or Abraham. He`s not a pharisee. He is a God fearing, righteous man that greatly pleases God. There is nothing to indicate that he was a man of the world. He was a man of God.

" Are we to only give praise to God when God has sheltered us and blessed us?"
Job himself addressed this when his wife cursed him. He said absolutely not. We have to accept both.

In chapter 3 I don`t read anything that proves he`s a man of the world. It is here that he is now falling to despair but that is only after his wife tells him to curse God and die. Before this we only see him worshipping God.

 

[pjt]

So in the midst of our own pain and anguish, we are to strike out at the very ones who try and comfort us? .

The point is his friends did not comfort him. They berated, belittled, and harrassed him trying to force undue guilt upon him. They are trying hard to force him to say he deserved this treatment because of his sin. When the truth is he did not deserve this treatment and he did not sin. Even God said this in Job 2:3 "although thou movedst Me against him, to destroy him without cause." There was no cause for the calamities coming on Job other than satan`s request which God granted. God knew the injustice of this too, but allowed it within His defined perimeters. Lets say you got injustly accused of first degree murder. You were completely innocent but were sitting in a jail cell suffering with all the violence and cruelties a prison has to offer. But you have some good faithful friends who come to visit you and comfort you, but the only comfort they offer is telling you over and over again that you are guilty and you MUST confess and come clean with God if you want to regain a sense of peace. You tell them over and over that you are not guilty, but they will not listen. The more you tell them, the harder they come down on you and tell you how stubborn and arrogant you are to think you can hide this sin and crime from God. Have they given you any comfort? You were happy when they first came in the visiting room but as the discourse goes on, you wish they had never come because they only make you feel worse! That is the situation Job was up against. Job was merely defending himself. He was not striking out.

 

[stovebolts]

pjt,

I understand what you are saying. Really, I do. But there are two parts to every man and God doesn't just allow bad things to happen to good people for no reason. God has a plan and a purpose, after all, it was God who asked the Satan, "Have you seen my servant Job?"

4:1 Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered:
4:2 “If someone should attempt a word with you, will you be impatient? But who can refrain from speaking?
4:3 Look, you have instructed many; you have strengthened feeble hands.
4:4 Your words have supported those who stumbled, and you have strengthened the kneesthat gave way.
4:5 But now the same thing comes to you, and you are discouraged; it strikes you, and you are terrified.
4:6 Is not your piety your confidence, and your blameless ways your hope?


I believe Eliphaz hits the nail on the head. Job is spiritually dead because his hope is in his piety, not his relationship with God.


James 1:2 My brothers and sisters, consider it nothing but joy when you fall into all sorts of trials, 1:3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 1:4 And let endurance have its perfect effect, so that you will be perfect and complete, not deficient in anything. 1:5 But if anyone is deficient in wisdom, he should ask God, who gives to all generously and without reprimand, and it will be given to him.


Yet what does Job do? He curses the very day he was born as his hope was in the external, not the internal. As Eliphaz stated, his hope was in his perfect exterior piety and when his piety was put on trial, Job had nothing left to fall back on.



If you read what God has to say about Job in his conversation with the Satan, he makes no mention of Job's spiritual state. God knows the heart, but Satan only knows what he's able to see.


Job himself even confesses his sin after his ordeal, and look what it took for his eyes to be opened...


Job 42:5 I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye has seen you.
42:6 Therefore I despise myself, and I repent in dust and ashes!


I want to sum this up using Youngs Literal translation.


Job 42:17 and Job dieth, aged and satisfied [with] days


We can decipher two things from this passage.
1. Job is not Jewish. If he had been Jewish it would have said something to the effect of "Gathered unto thy fathers".
2. After his trial, he is satisfied. Why? Because he has seen God and has had a spiritual awakening because it is only ones relationship with our creator that is truly able to satisfy.