What do you say to an atheist?

[elijah23]

If someone mentions to you, without your asking, that they are an atheist, what do you say? Do you preach to them? Say as little as possible? What?

 

[seekandlisten]

If someone mentions to you, without your asking, that they are an atheist, what do you say? Do you preach to them? Say as little as possible? What?

Ask them why they believe what they do. Find out where they are coming from with this belief. What causes them to not believe in any gods? Realize that an Athiest just believes in one less god than you. Respect their beliefs. Don't expect respect in return if you don't respect their beliefs. Realize what is 'proof', what is 'evidence' and what is pure speculation on both sides. Look at it as a discussion rather than a debate. Just my 2 cents

 

[elijah23]

Ask them why they believe what they do. Find out where they are coming from with this belief. What causes them to not believe in any gods? Realize that an Athiest just believes in one less god than you. Respect their beliefs. Don't expect respect in return if you don't respect their beliefs. Realize what is 'proof', what is 'evidence' and what is pure speculation on both sides. Look at it as a discussion rather than a debate. Just my 2 cents

I don’t believe in forcing my beliefs on an atheist. However, if they announce they are an atheist, as if expecting a reaction, then perhaps it is good to express an opinion.

The Lord exists, and in my opinion, desires love just as we desire love. To be an atheist is to say, “I will not love the Lord.†I think that is selfish.

 

[glorydaz]

Ask them why they believe what they do. Find out where they are coming from with this belief. What causes them to not believe in any gods? Realize that an Athiest just believes in one less god than you. Respect their beliefs. Don't expect respect in return if you don't respect their beliefs. Realize what is 'proof', what is 'evidence' and what is pure speculation on both sides. Look at it as a discussion rather than a debate. Just my 2 cents

I don’t believe in forcing my beliefs on an atheist. However, if they announce they are an atheist, as if expecting a reaction, then perhaps it is good to express an opinion.

The Lord exists, and in my opinion, desires love just as we desire love. To be an atheist is to say, “I will not love the Lord.†I think that is selfish.

I don't think they care whether they're selfish or not. Self-love is the way of the world.

I would take the opportunity to share how I used to be an athiest myself and how the Lord changed me. It's a good chance to share one's own testimony.

 

[logical bob]

Why do you equate atheism with self-love?

 

[glorydaz]

Why do you equate atheism with self-love?

I see the natural man as a lover of his own flesh above all else.

For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

Self-preservation and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh are of paramount importance to those who do not know God. Even man's motives for love are selfish...so that his own needs can be met. One's self-interests and setting self up as a God is the consequence of not recognizing we are created and owe our existance to our Creator.

 

[Nick]

Why do you equate atheism with self-love?

Becasue those without a God or higher being to worship often love themselves, and put themselves as number one. We see it all around us.

 

[logical bob]

Self-preservation and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh are of paramount importance to those who do not know God.

Wow. :o

Christianity is very much concerned with salvation and living forever, so it's strange to say that it's non-Christians who find self preservation important. Atheists accept that self preservation is impossible. Whatever we do, in the long run we're dead.

You know one fact about me - that I'm an atheist. From that you presume to know that fulfilling the lusts of the flesh is of paramount importance to me. Doesn't that strike you as rude to say the least?

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

 

[Mysteryman]

Self-preservation and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh are of paramount importance to those who do not know God.

Wow. :o

Christianity is very much concerned with salvation and living forever, so it's strange to say that it's non-Christians who find self preservation important. Atheists accept that self preservation is impossible. Whatever we do, in the long run we're dead.

You know one fact about me - that I'm an atheist. From that you presume to know that fulfilling the lusts of the flesh is of paramount importance to me. Doesn't that strike you as rude to say the least?

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

I agree with you here Bob. Even Christians can be self serving at times. Sometimes even Christians go to church and do not pratice what they are told they are to believe.

Christians should not judge you, I agree. Only you can judge youself. Christians are suppose to judge between that which is righteous and that which is unrighteous.

It is not unreighteous to say that you do not believe that there is a God. It is not right thinking, but at least you are not saying that God is this or God is that, or God who does exist is suppose to be be a God that I dream up within my own imagination.

What you are saying, is that I have this life, and when it is over, it is over. End of life ! And guess what Bob, you are exactly correct in thinking that !

When this life is over, it is over. Many Christians think that death is the beginning of another life. If any Christian believes this to be true, this then becomes an unrighteous thought by a Christian, that "should" know better.

Christians believe that there is life after death. But they should never believe that in death , dying brings life. Dying does not bring about life ! God is a God of life, not death. We do not live in death. We live in the life that is in Christ Jesus.

You die to self, and what I mean by that, is that when you die, everything you ever did in life, is now gone, because you are now dead. Your death is not based upon anything other than what you can get in this life. You might be a giver, in some things, a helper, when some people need something that you feel you can help them out with. And in this, this is not selfishness. You are giving out of you care in some way towards others. In fact, if you are a family man, I am sure you want what is best for your family. That is not selfish at all ! That is giving and caring for others as well as yourself.

When a believer says that they die to self, they are ignorant of the scriptures. Because the scriptures tell us that no one dies to self. Which of course would include you Bob. If you were a very selfish person, you wouldn't do anything for anyone period ! But I would bet that this is not true of you. Even though I do not know you personnaly.

So I would say that you have been judged by others incorrectly here even within this thread.

Sorry to say that , but it appears to me to be true in this case.

Take care Bob

IN Christ - MM

 

[Nick]

Self-preservation and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh are of paramount importance to those who do not know God.

Wow. :o

Christianity is very much concerned with salvation and living forever, so it's strange to say that it's non-Christians who find self preservation important. Atheists accept that self preservation is impossible. Whatever we do, in the long run we're dead.

You know one fact about me - that I'm an atheist. From that you presume to know that fulfilling the lusts of the flesh is of paramount importance to me. Doesn't that strike you as rude to say the least?

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

Bob, everyone is self-preserving at some point, but non-Christians generallly more so. The Christian faith is not necessarily about us having eternal life with God, it's about having a relationship with Him who called us before the ages.

Everyone is a slave of the lusts of the flesh, but in general, non-Christians much more so. Athiests see this life on earth as their only life, right? So they are a slave to it. We see this all the time. The Bible tells us not to be slaves to this world, as we are a part of something much bigger, so we (as Christians) can set our eyes, hopes and treasures fully on the life which is yet to come.

But I believe we're going off-topic here.

 

[glorydaz]

Self-preservation and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh are of paramount importance to those who do not know God.

Wow. :o

Christianity is very much concerned with salvation and living forever, so it's strange to say that it's non-Christians who find self preservation important. Atheists accept that self preservation is impossible. Whatever we do, in the long run we're dead.

You know one fact about me - that I'm an atheist. From that you presume to know that fulfilling the lusts of the flesh is of paramount importance to me. Doesn't that strike you as rude to say the least?

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

I wasn't directing my comment to you...actually, I didn't really think about whether you were an athiest or not. I was thinking of mankind in general. Before I was saved, I did think about staying alive as long as possible because I figured that was all there was going to be. If you took my comments personally, I'm sorry. Fulfilling the lusts of the flesh covers many things....our physical well-being...having a nice place to live, eating food we like, wearing nice clothes, keeping friends who make us feel better about ourselves...on and on. I'm not saying those things are bad in and of themselves, but we are the center of our own universe when we walk in the flesh. Does it make me rude to speak of how I used to be and how I see people who don't believe in a higher power than man? I hope not. But this is a discussion board and, far from judging others, I'm simply stating facts as I see them.

 

[logical bob]

I didn't think you were specifically directing that at me. Yet if you make a general statement about "those who do not know God" then you are making it about me, even though you know nothing about me.

If you're saying that before you became a Christian you were solely focused on physical comforts and material possessions then I believe you, but that doesn't give you the right to assume everyone is like that.

Of course you're free to call it as you see it on a discussion board, just as I'm free to respond.

Athiests see this life on earth as their only life, right? So they are a slave to it. We see this all the time.

And again with the crude generalisations! What do you see all the time? My friend, with the utmost respect you are seventeen years of age and not well placed to assert what makes large groups of people tick.

But I believe we're going off-topic here.

We're bang on topic. The OP wanted to know what to say to an atheist. I'm suggesting that it would be a good start to avoid telling them, as you guys have told me, that they're a selfish slave to the world bent on fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

 

[glorydaz]

Perhaps if you want your ears tickled, you shouldn't ask. If you want us to lie and say something other than what we believe, you've come to the wrong place.

Personally, I will say what I believe to be true, whether that makes you uncomfortable or not.
I do know what the world of the flesh is like...I still am overcome by the flesh at times, so it's no great mystery to me. Man, in his natural state, is selfish. Even when he goes about doing good works, he does so to make his "self" feel good. That is why the Word says even our righteousness is as filthy rags to God. Being a Christian makes us look at things from God's perspective...it comes with the territory.

My initial response was that I would share my personal testimony with an athiest. I know that once I was blind, but now I see. I don't claim to be better, but I am able to see myself and others as God sees us, and making excuses for someone who doesn't know God is not something I choose to do. Man is without excuse when he denies his Creator.

 

[logical bob]

There's nothing wrong with your personal testimony. Share away. My problem is when you go from saying "I was like this" to saying "all non-Christians are like this."

I presume you share your testimony because you'd like to be an effective witness and persuade the person you're sharing with. Can you not see that insulting them is hardly likely to acheive this? You're advocating telling people that they are incapable of altruism and that if they do anything good it's only to make themselves feel good. Yet just about everyone is capable of altruism and they know it. If you deny that they'll not only find you disrespectful, they'll find your view simplistic and unpersuasive.

 

[Nick]

I didn't think you were specifically directing that at me. Yet if you make a general statement about "those who do not know God" then you are making it about me, even though you know nothing about me.

If you're saying that before you became a Christian you were solely focused on physical comforts and material possessions then I believe you, but that doesn't give you the right to assume everyone is like that.

Of course you're free to call it as you see it on a discussion board, just as I'm free to respond.

Athiests see this life on earth as their only life, right? So they are a slave to it. We see this all the time.

And again with the crude generalisations! What do you see all the time? My friend, with the utmost respect you are seventeen years of age and not well placed to assert what makes large groups of people tick.

But I believe we're going off-topic here.

We're bang on topic. The OP wanted to know what to say to an atheist. I'm suggesting that it would be a good start to avoid telling them, as you guys have told me, that they're a selfish slave to the world bent on fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

Yes, I am 17 and of course I don't have the same life experience you do, although you don't know what I have or haven't been through.
But I do have the Bible - God's Word - which tells us (in absolute terms) what the world as a whole is like. And if you are not Christian, you are not following God, and therefore have your attention focused on this world, which means you are a slave to the flesh. Sure, you can get generous athiests, who care deeply about others - I'm not denying that.

Have you read much of the Bible, Bob?

Unless you are a Christian, you may not really know what I'm talking about, though.

 

[Godfrey]

The OP wanted to know what to say to an atheist. I'm suggesting that it would be a good start to avoid telling them, as you guys have told me, that they're a selfish slave to the world bent on fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

Well, at some point, we have to preach the kingdom to atheists, ‘cos that’s what we’re commanded to do; so in some form of words, we have to tell them, “The kingdom of God is near; repent and believe!â€

Which, of course, means that we have to make it plain that everyone has something – indeed, lots – to repent of, and it doesn’t matter how altruistic or pleasant or good-natured or law-abiding anyone is, it applies to everyone. But I think I’d do it by pointing them to the holiness of God. Our own natural condition shows up quickly enough measured against, say, the Sermon on the Mount.

That said, atheism is a very broad church . There are atheists and atheists. Some are what I think of as rational atheists. They are comfortable in their atheism, and don’t mind a bit if other people have faith. There are some who are more in line with Kingsley Amis: “You atheist?†“It’s more that I hate Him.†There are some who bang on about Christianity so much you have high hopes they are repressed Christians. There are some who, when you strip away all the arguments, are basically saying, “I don’t want God, therefore God does not exist.†And I’ve been very surprised in the last few months to find that some, who talk in syllogisms and insist on only the best peer-reviewed evidence, and apparently have no knowledge of the Christian faith from the way they talk – these poor folk have been Christians, or at least church-goers, and inside they are hurt or angry.

You can’t talk to all those different people in the same way …

 

[glorydaz]

There's nothing wrong with your personal testimony. Share away. My problem is when you go from saying "I was like this" to saying "all non-Christians are like this."

I presume you share your testimony because you'd like to be an effective witness and persuade the person you're sharing with. Can you not see that insulting them is hardly likely to acheive this? You're advocating telling people that they are incapable of altruism and that if they do anything good it's only to make themselves feel good. Yet just about everyone is capable of altruism and they know it. If you deny that they'll not only find you disrespectful, they'll find your view simplistic and unpersuasive.

That's odd since I have shared my testimony and the Word of God with many atheists, and I've never had the reaction you claim. I happen to find the simpler the better, and have found it quite persuasive. Perhaps the Lord has just led me to the right people who are prepared to hear what I have to share with them...He's good at that.

 

[LaCrum]

I don't say anything, instead I treat them with the same love and respect I treat everyone with. Many times actions speak louder than words.

 

[logical bob]

And if you are not Christian, you are not following God, and therefore have your attention focused on this world, which means you are a slave to the flesh. Sure, you can get generous athiests, who care deeply about others - I'm not denying that.

OK, if one can be a slave to the flesh and still be generous and care deeply about others then I don't mind so much being a slave to the flesh. It's a very negative way of putting things though. I think it would be a tragedy to waste your life without paying attention to it. The belief that this is it, not just a trailer for the feature pesentation, is actually very life affirming. It makes it clear just how precious life is.

Years ago I knew this very devout Christian girl, and we both knew a baby who died in really grim circumstances. I was devastated but I honestly think it made little impact on her. She just said that it was part of God's plan and that the baby was in heaven and then carried on as before. Since then I've found Christian detachment from the world rather disconcerting.

Have you read much of the Bible, Bob?

Not cover to cover, but a fair amount, yes.

 

[Mysteryman]

And if you are not Christian, you are not following God, and therefore have your attention focused on this world, which means you are a slave to the flesh. Sure, you can get generous athiests, who care deeply about others - I'm not denying that.

OK, if one can be a slave to the flesh and still be generous and care deeply about others then I don't mind so much being a slave to the flesh. It's a very negative way of putting things though. I think it would be a tragedy to waste your life without paying attention to it. The belief that this is it, not just a trailer for the feature pesentation, is actually very life affirming. It makes it clear just how precious life is.

Years ago I knew this very devout Christian girl, and we both knew a baby who died in really grim circumstances. I was devastated but I honestly think it made little impact on her. She just said that it was part of God's plan and that the baby was in heaven and then carried on as before. Since then I've found Christian detachment from the world rather disconcerting.

Have you read much of the Bible, Bob?

Not cover to cover, but a fair amount, yes.

Hi Bob

One of the faults that many Christians have, is what is called a false hope. Instead of dealing with the pain of death, which includes crying and comfort from others. They deal with it another way. This is where the problem comes in. When a baby or grown up dies, they do not go to heaven. Its a lie. But they have become so religeous in their veiw of christianity. And they look for an out from their pain, they will believe just about anything false to cover up or convert their pain, by saying and believing something that is not true.

As it is true, one day we will have eternal life with God. God tells us to be patient . But some people lack patience and then accept false doctorines to mask the pain of the reality of death.

They can have the same hope, the proper hope that the Word of God gives us, without living in this false hope, that when you die, you don't really die, you just go to heaven. It is one of the tricks of the adversary in believing this false doctorine.

The true hope is future.

Many in christianity believe many false doctorines. This is just one of them. And I am sure you as well as others see the many beliefs by many Christians. And the many differing beliefs. This confusion makes it more difficult to help others to see the truth.

IN Christ - MM