What does drunkenness mean?

[Fedusenko]

Wow, this is great! I really wasn't expecting any conversation from this.

Another story in the bible where someone is drunk is with Noah in Genesis 9:21

18And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan. 19These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

20And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: 21And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. 22And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. 23And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. 24And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

25And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

26And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

28And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. 29And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

Noah is described as "...just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God" in chapter 6.


I do not want to discuss what "uncovered their father's nakedness" means, but that Noah clearly became drunk and that seeing Noah's 'nakedness' has not imparted any sin on Noah as he is neither condemned nor does he ask for forgiveness.

Do we claim that Noah committed the sin of drunkenness, or do we continue attributing drunk to drunkenness? If it was Noah that sinned, then shouldn't Noah be the one to have reaped the consequences? This instance we see Cannan, the son of Ham, receiving the condemnation not Noah.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not to be argumentative, but now you want scripture to back up what WIP is saying when you said in previous posts you are led by the Holy Spirit?

No, I was addressing your comment you made to WIP, about us being a stumbling block as in furnishing alcohol to someone who has a problem with it, yet I see a comparison in what you said and ask you if you thought Jesus would have also been a stumbling block to those he made wine for by the way your comment reads. FYI, scripture never said they were drunk, but that they drunk wine at the wedding. Big difference in the use of the word drunk.

You said: But, we can be a stumbling block to an individual who does have an issue with alcohol and if we have it around them would cause them to stumble into drinking again. That is why the church I attend serves grape juice instead of wine...not to cause a brother to stumble.

 

[Fedusenko]

If you serve alcohol to someone who already has a propensity for substance abuse, then you are 'aiding and abetting the alcoholic', thus sinning. I think this is fairly straightforward. Is it a sin if you didn't know they had problems with it? My gut reaction repeats Matthew 5:

23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

While said in a different context, I believe the same applies here. The overall message I see here is to fix what you break.

Now Noah became drunk, but no sin by his hand is mentioned. Ham appears to have dishonored his father at the very least and his family line after him receives the punishment. Maybe Ham was drunk, maybe not, it isn't mentioned. Becoming drunk does not seem to be a sin at all, nor is it noteworthy other than to explain why Noah fell asleep.

 

[elijah23]

Drinking to get high is drunkenness.

 

[Fedusenko]

What literature is this based on?